Why have my gains stopped ?????

[dazbo]

Hi

This is my first AAS cycle of sus deca and dbol .

I am in the start of my 6th week. The first 3 weeks I gained nearly 14lbs. The last 2 weeks Ive gained nothing. I also feel like some gain is fat.

I have stopped using Dbol now. I have still had no strength gains. Any ideas whether it is because a) Dbol didnt work for me; b) The test and Deca havent kicked in yet c) Some other reason ?!!!

Also, I will be starting PCT 18 days after last shot. Would it be a good idea to shoot test enanthate twice weekly in the 2 weeks before I start PCT ?? I want to gain as much as poss and keep as much as poss.

Thanks

Darren

[Forgiveness]

lifting?

[Dude-Man]

you probably need to eat more.
Food is the most anabolic substance known to man.

[needle]

Gains from Dbol will slow down as the cycle gets towards the 5 and 6th wk!
The test and deca when did u start them ? Im confused on your details buddy try to be very specific! 1-4 DBOL, 1-10 Tect etc......

[LILLEN]

you have gained some, and now your body need more food.

hevier weight needs more food.

[dazbo]

I know why you would think Im not eating enough but I have been getting at least 5000 cals and gaining fat so i have dropped my intake a bit. typical day is as follows -

4 weetabix/porridge oats wi whey powder and protein shake for brekkie
2 sarnies of tuna spinach or another meat with pickle in also piece of fruit
dinner either chicken breast - 400g worth OR 800g meal such as chicken and pasta with a yogurt
2 more sarnies as before plus a weight gain shake of about 750 cals and fruit
TRAIN
Weight gain shake right after gym (Inc scoop protein powder)
Hour or so later - Tea of either chicken, spag bol, chilli con carne etc with salad (V Big Serving)
Sometimes Oats with Protein powder for supper.

Now this was the first 4 weeks (Think thats everything!) As well as all my supps/vits etc such as multivits, oils, glusomine etc.

Last week I cut out the weight gain shake that goes with the sarnies in the aft and havent been having oats and protein before bed. I am going to cut my luch down to only having chicken breasts instead of pasta as well. I believe I am carb intolerant so store fat easily from them (Just a thought at the mo tho!)

I have just posted this on another post so i copied and pasted it.

basically, Ive gained some fat, that adds up to nearly 300g of prot (65g in the lunch meal alone). I was told to make sure I included enougfh carbs in my diet to bulk which I have never done before. But I dont think that is working for me ???

My cycle - which I got from a supposedly good info source (Turns out mick hart didnt know much as he thought) is below -

1-5 30mg anabol daily (Mick's book says pyramid up to 45mg over 10wks!)
1-10 Sus 250mg every 6 days (I know it shud be eod but I had start cycle and bought the gear etc etc so I just split it into 2 shots per 6days now OK)
1-10 Deca 200mg every 6 days (I know now that this is low)
Nolva @ 10mg daily
PCT 18 days after sus shot - 300mg clomind day 1 then 100mg clomid days 2-28 along with 10mg nolva daily. And maybe some other nat test boosters such as tribulus.

I am 23
lifted for 6 yrs none stop with at least 4 yrs good training
started at 190lbs and now 203lbs (Been that for 2 weeks now!)
done some silly uneducated PH's - 2 off plus 1 good M1T one.


Thanks

[Ntpadude]

Just like the other guy said, gain some weight, now your "maintenance" calarie requirement has increased, so has your gaining calaries also increased. Also sometimes first cycles tend to have excessive water bloats up front and then your body adapts to the higher testosterone levels in mid cycles and some of the water bloat slowly declines even though you are continuing the cycle.

ALso for me, Dbol and anadrol ... they bloat you up right quick, but then you discontinue these, even though the injectables are taking over, the pills cause a profound amount of water bloating. So much bloating that the testosterone and injectables are not capable of maintaining the bloat after you discontinue the dbols, so even though testosterone and others are kicking in, they do not support as much water bloating as dbol and anadrols do.

For me I think dbols and anadrols are a waste of money. Its all worthless water bloatiness.... the injectables give you more rock solid and keepable gains and less water.

Just stick with the remainder of your cycle. If you dont feel yourself getting stronger, well its not given away to you free just because you are on cycle. You might not realize how fast your body can adapt to ever increasing weights while on steroids , increase your weights, even if you can only get 5 reps, stack on ever heavier weights. Also dont worry about working out for 1.5 to 2 hours at a time, the gear protects you 100% from catabolism, increase your weights and next week you will realize you HAVE gotten stronger as a result.

[hobbitlifter]

EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT. Nuff said

[AandF6969]

Are you sure you're eating over 5000 calories per day or did you just throw that number out there because you "eat a lot"? You can total up your daily food intake at www.fitday.com they have a huge database of foods with protein/fat/carb contents.

If you can't gain weight on gear, there is a problem and it's most likely your diet. Re-evaluate your diet and training and post them in the appropriate forums for critique.

[DrugsrGood]

a) Dbol didnt work for me

Sounds to me like it did work for you. otherwise you probably wouldnt have had such good gains so early in your cycle

The test and Deca havent kicked in yet

Sust has fast acting prop, but in small amounts... others should start making a real difference within first 4-6 weeks. Deca should also start workin pretty good right about now.

I will be starting PCT 18 days after last shot. Would it be a good idea to shoot test enanthate twice weekly in the 2 weeks before I start PCT ??

No way!! Enanthate would kick in during pct, defeating the purpose.

If you feel diet is ok, and your gear should be in effect.... I can only think of two things... bunk-ass gear(cept d-bol), or bad training. Do you notice an increase in your pumps.... that should be an indicator of if your gear is legit. notice any water retention... d-bol and deca should cause a decent amt. with no anti-e's thrown in.

[Mesomorphyl]

ALso for me, Dbol and anadrol ... they bloat you up right quick, but then you discontinue these, even though the injectables are taking over, the pills cause a profound amount of water bloating. So much bloating that the testosterone and injectables are not capable of maintaining the bloat after you discontinue the dbols, so even though testosterone and others are kicking in, they do not support as much water bloating as dbol and anadrols do.

For me I think dbols and anadrols are a waste of money. Its all worthless water bloatiness.... the injectables give you more rock solid and keepable gains and less water.

It is kinda funny your position on here, as on test related bloat thread you suggest no AI or SERM for better gains including water that holds protein according to you. Here is your other quote.

Water bloating is essentially the #1 way steroids cause muscles to grow, it also is retaining high amounts of protein throughout the body, if you get rid of the water bloat, then you are also flushing and dumping all that protein being held in that water as welll.

You are not a schitzo w/multiple personality disorder; and debate yourself all day?

[hawkeye1877]

make sure your eating enough and properly, get the book nutrient timing, its an excellent source for what to eat, and also when to eat it.

[AandF6969]

Just out of curiousity... are you shooting the sustanon every other day?

[Mesomorphyl]

answer up dazbo or ntpadude

[dazbo]

OK thanks for those replies guys. I think wot NPTAdude said sounds like it could be the reason. Had the water/bloat etc from anabol, and now, Ive came off, the weight is dropping from water and the test is just kicking in now - sounds plausable!

Also, I was told on another post that having the Test enan the last 18days was good - it wasnt my idea. But its a short acting test apparantly so why would it just kick in during PCT ?? Anyone else think I shouldnt do this ????

Would anavar be better to use at some point durin the end of cycle or just after cycle ???

Also, Im only havin 250mg sus every 6 days. I know this is low but Ive explained this so many times in the other post (And this one??) and I split it into every 3 days.

I know my gear is legit cos its a personal friend I know who goes to thailand to by them. He also uses them and has done great on them. He also said He'd pay for me to go to Thai to get a load of gear and bring it back. So again, more proof its real. Also, another mate has got them off him too and his gains have been good so far. He aint using Dbol tho.

I feel I know a lot about diet and especially about training. So I know my training aint lacking. Diet I am on now isnt perfect but mainly cos Im not a good cook and I hate preparing meals etc so I do what is suitable. I still eat a lot -I have 7-8meals per day (3 Shakes inc) and a lot of protein. I am reducing my carb intake at the mo cos I believe its putting fat on me.

I will try to eat more and see how things go still. But Im worried that too much fat will go on me ?!!

Also, when I say anabol did nothing for me, I mean strength wise. I ALWAYS push my body to the limits when training. I would state my training on here but it varies so much its hard to do that! I mainly train extremely heavy while bulking with sets starting 15,10,6-8,up to 5(Assisted). Sometimes I train negatives - heavy than i can lift alone and slowly lower it. I do sessions of maximums - only lifting the max weight on that muscle group. sessions of drop sets sometimes. Cardio sessions, I also play fottball once a week, badmington once per week, normally kickboxing once per week also. Just gotta believe me wen I say training is spot on with 150% effort!!

Ill look into the book nutrient timing cos Im always willing to learn more!

Thanks so far

[AandF6969]

Test enan the last 18days was good - it wasnt my idea. But its a short acting test apparantly so why would it just kick in during PCT ?? Anyone else think I shouldnt do this ????

Actually test enanthate is a long acting ester, with the half life being around 4-5 days, versus 2 days with propionate . Using Enanthate during PCT would defeat the point of PCT... You'd be keeping your test levels supressed when you're supposed to be getting them back to normal.

[dazbo]

I realise what you say there but what the plan was was to take it in the start of week 11 and finish at the end of week 12. Bear in mind I would be starting PCT 18days after my last shot in week 10 so the test enanthate should be out of the system by the time i started PCT wouldnt it ???

[AandF6969]

the test enanthate should be out of the system by the time i started PCT wouldnt it ???

Not enough that you'd get an effective PCT.... all hormones need to be gone from your system by the time you start it.

[dazbo]

So what about using anavar in my cycle somewhere to help harden and things near the end ??

thanks

[Zennie]

Even if you ate your maintenance calories, you'd still put on weight! I really don't think it is just the diet. A lot of people say eat 5000 calories. I think 500 more than maintenance is enough to put on plenty of lean muscle mass without much fat if any. Even when I go on a cycle and eating less than normal, i will gain strength and lean muscle mass and lose fat!

The dbols gave you water retention (but should have given you strength too after 2 weeks!). The reason you'd lose weight is cos you're losing the water retention from dbols much faster than you are putting on lean muscle mass from the sust and deca , which should start to kick in at week 4-5, assuming that they are real.

Well, let it go for another few weeks. I believe really, naturally with high levels of test, anyone would eat 500 calories more naturally anyway because of a higher appetite.....and that should compensate for more growth than normal.

[pyschomab]

just take some A bombs like say 50 mg !!

[dazbo]

what ???

[XxElitexX]

Keep in mind that most of those first gains...especially with a deca , dbol , test cyle will be water weight...you could expect about 2ibs of solid mass atleast a week.

[dazbo]

I expected not to have put on much water weight due to taking 10mg nolva daily. Or am I wrong ? Will there still be some ?

Thanks

[AandF6969]

I expected not to have put on much water weight due to taking 10mg nolva daily. Or am I wrong ? Will there still be some ?

Nolvadex prevents some water from being stored but its main function is to keep estrogen fat from being deposited in the breast tissue.

[dazbo]

Just about what you guys have been saying about eating more -

Ever notice how productive of muscle, a cycle usually is, during the first four weeks, and how it slows down and bodyfat accumulates, during the second four weeks? You end up eating more, in the attempt to return things to the former rate. More bodyfat. Finally, the whole process slows down for good. What's going on? The common explanation is that you are getting bigger, so that requires more nutrition. We say no. We say the body realizes what is going on, it exhausts and compensates, and body metabolism and developmental processes simply will no longer support this process. But you continue to eat. And that food has got no place else to go, but be turned into fat, with unproductive lbm production

This was taken from -

something other than test?

[Mesomorphyl]

Just about what you guys have been saying about eating more -

Ever notice how productive of muscle, a cycle usually is, during the first four weeks, and how it slows down and bodyfat accumulates, during the second four weeks? You end up eating more, in the attempt to return things to the former rate. More bodyfat. Finally, the whole process slows down for good. What's going on? The common explanation is that you are getting bigger, so that requires more nutrition. We say no. We say the body realizes what is going on, it exhausts and compensates, and body metabolism and developmental processes simply will no longer support this process. But you continue to eat. And that food has got no place else to go, but be turned into fat, with unproductive lbm production

This was taken from -

something other than test?

If you will not listen to reason, and not actually research this style of cycling as well as not taking solid advice... Then don't. Do what you want. No one can tell you because you read one article that says different. From experience I will warn you that you are looking in the wrong direction.

[dazbo]

Ignoring that last post.

Just to inform that this week ive gained an extra 2.2lbs from the previous. Which is a total gain of 14lbs over the course so far. Is that pretty reasonable ??

I have 4 weeks left from today so Ive been on for 6 so far.

[seanw]

Just about what you guys have been saying about eating more -

Ever notice how productive of muscle, a cycle usually is, during the first four weeks, and how it slows down and bodyfat accumulates, during the second four weeks? You end up eating more, in the attempt to return things to the former rate. More bodyfat. Finally, the whole process slows down for good. What's going on? The common explanation is that you are getting bigger, so that requires more nutrition. We say no. We say the body realizes what is going on, it exhausts and compensates, and body metabolism and developmental processes simply will no longer support this process. But you continue to eat. And that food has got no place else to go, but be turned into fat, with unproductive lbm production

This was taken from -

something other than test?

So if you believe this you would also believe that a two to four week cycle is the way to go as well, as it says in the same article

[Mesomorphyl]

So if you believe this you would also believe that a two to four week cycle is the way to go as well, as it says in the same article

Will he ignore your post too???

[***xxx***]

just take some A bombs like say 50 mg !!

very clever advice

if u gain fat, u eat too much or low quality calories. btw this amount ur eating doesn t sound like 5k calories....

[dazbo]

So again - what are A bombs ????

Also, I only ignored meso's post because he was starting to flame me just bacuse I have found other info on things from my OWN research. I dont know whether or not shorter cycles work either, I doubt it, but they seem to think it works for them.

I only put that on there because what was described was very similar to how things have been going for me.

I worked out my cals, pretty roughly from my diet plan I made a while back which turned out was about 3500-4000cals. Now I have been having the same but including my weight gainer which has 1500cals per day alone with that so Im now guessing about 5000cals???

My meal sizes are very big also. I also take oils as supps - which is more cals and amino tabs which are 7g of protein through the day - another 28cals but they all add up eh ?!!

Anyway heres my full stats etc Ive kept so i can post on all mu posts

23YR OLD
185-190 LBS
12-14%bf (Approx)
5'10"

Max Bench Flat - 350lbs
Max stiff legged dead lift - 350lbs
Max Preacher Curl - 165lbs
Max Military Shoulder Press - 110lb dumbells
Max Leg Press - 1200lbs
Max Squat - 440lbs

Daily Diet on average Day -

Breakfast - 4weetabix plus protein shake
Sometimes 2 double sausage buns and 1 egg bun
Morning Break - 2 sarnies wi tuna/beef/chicken wi pickle and spinach
Lunch - 450g Chicken breast wi marinade plus yogurt
Afternoon break - 2 sarnies as above plus banana
Before gym - Protein Shake with small amount of carbs (Weight gainer a little of)
Post Gym - 2:1 carb to protein shake (Weight gainer)
tea - Spaghetti bol/chicken and veg/tuna pasta (Varies all the time)
Before bed - Oats wi scoop of protein.

After 6 weeks AAS -

205lbs
13-15%bf (Approx)

Only increase in strength so far has been my bench which has now gone up to 375lbs

Training -

Varies a lot from 6days per week heavy training with some cardio like football/badminton/cardio machines/kickboxing to maybe 3 days a week heavy training plus 2 days medium weight training with half hour cardio, plus sports.

So, sometimes I might train 9/10 times a week in the gym plus 1/2times badminton/football/kickboxing. Sometimes I may have 3/4days off in a row (Which is a killer).

Training split = day 1 - Chest day 2 - Back/Lats Day 3 - Arms Day 4 - Shoulders Day 5 Legs
normally 4 sets - 1 warmup with really light weight @ 15-20reps, another with a bit of weight of 10reps, then mid weight of 8-10reps, then last set of 1-6reps (Assisted)
Sometimes we train with a session of negatives (A weight that you cant lift but can lower), another day as above, another day with all maximums and so on - So, like I said it all varies.

[Swifto]

finish ur cycle with some var or prop to harden up ur gains, this will help u reach ur PCT times more accurately also

[Mesomorphyl]

So again - what are A bombs ????

Also, I only ignored meso's post because he was starting to flame me just bacuse I have found other info on things from my OWN research.

Abombs are drol are anadrol .

Now... You say you ignored my post because you found other info on things... First 'things' means more than one(plural); Also from your own research??? Or was it a copy of someones research on a thread? Like badgermans? OK, it is ok to find info on threads but to back it to contradict others yet you do not have anything, scientific or anyone including european BB'ers, to back this one article up. You also throw around they... Who are they??? Have you researched short cycles? Name someone that thinks this is the way to go. Others may say it is, but have they done it? NO, so from experience again I tell you this is not the way to go. If you think it is a flame, so be it. Calling you a fvcking retarded jackass would be a flame, but I did not do that. You do not even comprehend flaming. So just call it help from someone that wishes you to do the right thing. Listen or do not listen your choice.

[triceptor]

I agree with the others, eat more, definitly more protein, and make sure you gear is good.....

[dazbo]

When I say they, I mean the people who train with and under the guy who wrote that post. I didnt post that here to try and prove you's wrong, I only posted it to state maybe another oppinion and for you're info to look at and then say - "Nah, thats sh*t, dont agree. Ill stick with what I thought to start with!"

So lets start from the beginning shall we meso ??

Are my gains above looking pretty good or should I be expecting more ?? With good nolva,clomid,tribulus PCT,training and diet how much should I expect to keep ??

About the Anivar - when would I start taking that if I could get it ? How much and how often ?? Is it oral or injectable ?

Thanks

Darren

[Swifto]

run it from wk 6-14 50mg ED and start PCT 3 days after last tab

[longhorn814]

anavar is oral and it one of the most expensive steroids there is!

[Mesomorphyl]

When I say they, I mean the people who train with and under the guy who wrote that post. I didnt post that here to try and prove you's wrong, I only posted it to state maybe another oppinion and for you're info to look at and then say - "Nah, thats sh*t, dont agree. Ill stick with what I thought to start with!"

So lets start from the beginning shall we meso ??

Are my gains above looking pretty good or should I be expecting more ?? With good nolva,clomid,tribulus PCT,training and diet how much should I expect to keep ??

Darren

First Darren, why do you wait to post until I am offline? Huh? I have seen you lurking around and back on this thread without nothing to say until I leave. Next I think we should discuss the quote. Did I say those words? You can quote me if I did and I went back through this thread and could not find it. I did however let you know by EXPERIENCE that this information is flimsy at best. So when you go into the whole let us start from the beginning - all your questions were answered to everyones best "educated" guess. We cannot tell you if you should expect more gains unless you eat more, train more, and sleep more. Now with the how much you should expect to keep if you have everything in order including pct; let me get out my magic eight ball... *shakes magic 8 ball* Hey... what do you know, you are going to keep most! I love this thing, it really works!

[longhorn814]

this guy has been brainwashed by that crappy book by Mick Hart "the laymans guide to steroids !!"