Nandrolone or EQ for a first cycle? Why/why not?

**Two4the$$** · 02-26-2005, 09:12 AM

I have very modest goals, approx. to gain 15 pounds of muscle. I want to minimize first and foremost androgenic sides, and don't mind doing as many as 3 cycles. I have posted requests for information and people here seem to ignore my desires to avoid bloat/MPB/gyno. It would SEEM to me that EQ or Deca would have LOWER side affects (everything I've ever read indicate they are lower in sides than ANY test product) yet, with my small goals, people STILL always reply, "take test, 400-500mg weekly" ... WTF? Why not take something that has lower sides if my goals can be attained without something that is so harsh and SO estrogenic?

LORDBLiTZ · 02-26-2005, 09:24 AM

You need to do some more research, bro. You'll get much worse sides from running deca or eq only. And then after your cycle, it will take you much more time to recover from those compounds. You'll probably lose the gains you made, and come out of it with a limp dong.

**GetinBig** · 02-26-2005, 09:26 AM

Bro if your going to ask for people to help you.. Don't say things like that and just listen.. Or just do your own research..

YOU NEED TEST..

If you are pron to MPB your going to get it no matter what.. If you just take deca hope you don't like sex because the little guy is not going to work..

For you first cycle I would recomend this.. (you can listen or not)

weeks 1-12 500mg wk Test E (take 250mg Monday morning and 250mg Thursday afternoon)
weeks 1- the end of PCT .25mg L-dex ed.
weeks 1- the end of PCT 10-20mg Nolva ed.
14 days after last Test shot start your PCT (Clomid)

**GetinBig** · 02-26-2005, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by LORDBLiTZ

You need to do some more research, bro. You'll get much worse sides from running deca or eq only. And then after your cycle, it will take you much more time to recover from those compounds. You'll probably lose the gains you made, and come out of it with a limp dong.

Blitz you beat me to it...

**Two4the$$** · 02-26-2005, 09:43 AM

Okay, you both make the same point everyone does. I am humble, and ask your opinions because I DO want them, and DO respect them. You have earned your opinions through experience and research ... my problem is that the forums seem to contradict the AAS websites which indicate that sides are highest with a test product, and lowest with something like NPP (nandrolone ), Primo, EQ... and that gains made are usually gains kept. Its so difficult to make sense of this when no one seems to agree, or only do so without explanation.

**dive_kid** · 02-26-2005, 09:56 AM

well one thing almost everyone here will agree on is that every cycle needs test.
sure you can use other drugs on there own but it is just not as good. as for sides,
I have never heard of any thing to bad with test and at 500mg/week I think most people will say they get no sides. right now I am useing 1200mg/week and my only
problem is a little acne. Now I would much rather have that then deca dick...lol
as for keeping gains, it is much better and quicker to recover from a cycle of test then a cycle without.
Getin Big gave you a good plan. it is a great first cycle and I dont think you will be disapointed

**Two4the$$** · 02-26-2005, 10:12 AM

What is a good cycle duration if I decide to take 400mg x week?

LORDBLiTZ · 02-26-2005, 10:26 AM

No less than 10 weeks.

**Two4the$$** · 02-26-2005, 10:28 AM

Why? I hear some people use them for 6 weeks... and others for up to 20. I wish more people could actually agree on things. :-(

**longhorn814** · 02-26-2005, 10:41 AM

long acting esters like test e or cyp take 4-5 to kick in so running it for six weeks is pretty pointless. A good first cycle would be for 10-12 weeks. People that run for longer have more experience.

**Two4the$$** · 02-26-2005, 10:58 AM

4-5 weeks to kick in? whats that mean? I thought it was faster, does that mean that weeks 1-4 I won't feel anything?

**longhorn814** · 02-26-2005, 11:15 AM

esters like e and cyp release the testosterone into your system at a much slower rate than something like prop. You wont feel much the first few weeks, but it will be working. It just takes time. That is why people usually kick off a cycle with something like dbol for the first four weeks. FYI deca and eq take about a week longer than test e or cyp to kick in. Do a search for types of esters and you can read about the different kinds

**erock29** · 02-26-2005, 11:31 AM

It has been my humble experience that if you use Deca ...you must you Test, and believe me you will find out at the most inopportune time. Second, depending on your body, how fast it grows etc, you can adjust the level of Test that you need. Personally, I can put on 15 lbs with a minimal amount ofTest in 3 weeks, by eating huge amounts of protein per day...chicken, fish, and steak etc. My friend took the same cycle and the same diet and only put on 15 pounds in 12 weeks, but he did get stronger than I did. More than half of this is getting to know your body and getting to know what works, what doesnt, and making adjustments. Then you have to decide what you are willing to do and not do. Either way, Im telling you straight up, take Deca by itself and you'll have to dream about your dick getting hard cause it aint gonna happen when your awake. Deca will put some nice gains on, but only if you cycle it with some test...I would suggest Test E>

erock

**erock29** · 02-26-2005, 11:33 AM

Ive also heard a good kick off is Test Prop, although i have never used it...do some homework and Git 'er done.

erock

**Two4the$$** · 02-26-2005, 11:47 AM

Okay, how about Proprionate and Durabolin ? What are the minimum dosages I should try starting this with?

**longhorn814** · 02-26-2005, 11:55 AM

prop is fine if you dont mind shooting ed or eod. I prefer ed. It should be at least 100 mg higher than deca . So if you did 400mg/wk of deca or eq, you should probably shoot 75mg/day of prop. Personally I would do prop and eq.

**erock29** · 02-26-2005, 12:04 PM

It looks to me like your just jumping aound waiting for someone to tell you what sounds good. Do some reading, believe me it helps...there is plenty of info and good posts on this board. If it were me, I would kick off my cycle with the prop and Deca , and then kick in the test E...and I would say you have to go for 12 weeks. How much, will i will leave that amongst the rest of you to argue about, it has been my experience that you cannot say im going to take Xmg/ml weekly. I would start out with less and if you dont see some results in 3-4 weeks, then make an increase. others will disagree with this but as i have stated everybodies body is different and you have to see what works for you. In the end you will be the one to judge, did i get the gains i expected, the side effects differ from person to person, so ultimately it is your choice. We all have prefernces because we know what works for us. There are not short cuts here bro, you have to do the reading, there is alot of good info out there -look for fact related information, not one's opinion v. another's. There are pro's and con's to all steriods so you have to decide what's right for you. On top of that anyone can put steroids in their body, it's what you do when your taking tham that makes it worth the while, or not. If you dont work out hard and you dont eat right, your wasting your time and your money...the same can be said for going to the gym if your not using. Take a week do some studying, read the bro's posts here, read some more, and then sketch a plan out. take that plan and run it by some of the guys on here and they'll tell you what they think. If you want to tweak it at that point, go ahead. There are may variables to be considered and you need to study them and consider them carefully -then make a decision one way or another.

erock

**GetinBig** · 02-26-2005, 12:19 PM

If you don't mind shooting your self every day then go with the Test Prop..

It will kick in very fast..

Just take like 75mg of Prop every day..

AND Follow the rest of the cycle I said earlier (just switch the tests)

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 02-26-2005, 02:33 PM

Like I said, all you want is 15 lbs. Have some patients and do it naturally. You are sitting here saying you want 15lbs within 3 cycles..thats rediculous to put your body through that for practically nothing.

Either do one real cycle of testosterone , or dont do any and gain your 15lbs naturally. I dont understand why you want to pussyfoot around.

As everyone told you, EQ or DECA without test will be worse off. Your body will have no testosterone in it, you will have no sexdrive maybe even temporary impotance, lethargy, and lousy gains are a big possibility.

Your first cycle, just do test 400mg/wk for 10-12wks. Thats it, plenty. Dont want to bloat, fine take nolva 10mg ED and you wont. You will start feeling it as soon as you start, the biggest gains will come in wk 4-6 or so, but you will still make some in the begginning.

How much do you weigh? If your under 185 there is definately no reason to start.

**Two4the$$** · 02-27-2005, 01:58 PM

I weigh 195 pounds, 11% BF (maybe less) and am 6-3.

Okay Billy, youdaman, I see that. :-) and I see your point... regarding doing it in one cycle. interesting, and good info. :-)

Why does test need to be greater than EQ, and not equal to? The reason I keep reverting to EQ is because of it's benefits for joints/tendons and that it is reported as low in the andro. sides...

Thanks

**Bryan2** · 02-27-2005, 02:27 PM

This is why we have ancillaries!!!

If you know for a fact that you are prone to hairloss than buy some finasteride and take that on your cycle. If you already shedding hair natty then look into throwing in some topical androgen blockers like minoxodil shampoo while on your cycle.

Be sure to take 20mg ED of Nolva on cycle and you have nothing to worry about with estrogen related problems. If truly worried about bloat then trow in some ADEX and you have nothing to worry about at all with Estrogen sides!!!

Take everyones adivce and take 500mg EW of a long estered Test or shoot prop at either 150 EOD or 75 ED.run for 10-12 weeks

EQ is good I prefer it over Deca but thats just me you really dont even need it but if you want something more then mix it in.

**No One Knows** · 02-27-2005, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

I have very modest goals, approx. to gain 15 pounds of muscle. I want to minimize first and foremost androgenic sides, and don't mind doing as many as 3 cycles. I have posted requests for information and people here seem to ignore my desires to avoid bloat/MPB/gyno. It would SEEM to me that EQ or Deca would have LOWER side affects (everything I've ever read indicate they are lower in sides than ANY test product) yet, with my small goals, people STILL always reply, "take test, 400-500mg weekly" ... WTF? Why not take something that has lower sides if my goals can be attained without something that is so harsh and SO estrogenic?

Dude...this is your 4th thread in 2 days. All of them basically ask the same question.

If you have to ask why you need test, or why you cant take EQ or deca alone, then you don't know enough to start AAS. Go read some educational threads. Everything you have asked has been answered 10,000 times here, thats why no one feels like answering them AGAIN.

So if you don't want to listen, take deca or EQ alone and you will see just how "low" their side effects are. And when you can't get your dick hard, you will say "Man, these guys are right. I should have used TEST"