Baking Soda

[phwSSJ]

Here is a little secret I thought I would share with you guys.
Some of yall probably know this already but .....

SV-1 Talked about this in his DNP thread but for a different application.

By ingesting baking soda you can add up to 30 seconds more power out put by the anerobic glycolosis system. Energy from AGS lasts about 1-2 min, depending on fitness level.

What happens is that baking soda helps raise blood ph. Which means your body is more basic and your nuscles do not fatigue as fast from lactic acid.

You have to experiment with this to see how much baking soda your body can tollerate. Start with half a table spoon.
One and a half works good for me, some people take three tbl spoons.

This stuff rally works,
It is considered doping for sprinters, and they get tested for it.
So it really works, beats the hell out of that high ph water that is a waste of money, if any of yall heard of it.

My knowledge on this is not that extensive, but I have used it when I train especially notice a difference when I grapple.
I dont know How much it will help in weight training cuz I think its mostly ATP-PC but You could be using AGS if you train weights a certian way.

Anyone that knows about this feel free to add your $0.02
Just thought I would share some of what I know.

[kman]

R u serious. I don't think I could just gulp down some baking soda, but then again if it helps. But this is news to me... Bump..

[bor]

Interesting bro , bump for more info

[hawkeye1877]

yeah bump more info, but if that rings true, i'm gonna grab me some arm and hammer

[Basilus]

Please do not take this the wrong way. I'm in no way racist.

This guy I have known for awhile at my gym used to play pro baseball we talk all the time, he is a man of color. He is from the south and said some mothers in his area, including his, start giving their male kids Baking Soda during puburty. I always thought this kinda strange but I guess it could have some kinda merit to it. Always thought it was strange.

[Powrlftr]

No offense, but I seriously doubt this line of reasoning.

Your blood is buffered, meaning that it would take huge amounts of acid or base to change the pH of it, which is a good thing since you would die if your blood pH increased/decreased by as little as 0.5 pH from the norm of 7.4.

The way this works in your body is simple: You metabolic processes make free protons which increases acidity, these protons combine with bicarbonate(baking soda) to make carbonic acid which then decomposes to water and carbon dioxide and is excreted by the body through the lungs.

In the other direction your blood's pH is increased by the exhalation of CO2 and water, so then the carbonic acid in your blood dissociates to form H+ and bicarb. Also there is way more bicarb in the blood than there is carbonic acid, something like 95% bicarb to 5% carbonic acid.

[vestax]

I agree with Powerliftr - sounds interesting but maybe what you experience before was purely placebo

[9000rpm]

No offense, but I seriously doubt this line of reasoning.

Your blood is buffered, meaning that it would take huge amounts of acid or base to change the pH of it, which is a good thing since you would die if your blood pH increased/decreased by as little as 0.5 pH from the norm of 7.4.

The way this works in your body is simple: You metabolic processes make free protons which increases acidity, these protons combine with bicarbonate(baking soda) to make carbonic acid which then decomposes to water and carbon dioxide and is excreted by the body through the lungs.

In the other direction your blood's pH is increased by the exhalation of CO2 and water, so then the carbonic acid in your blood dissociates to form H+ and bicarb. Also there is way more bicarb in the blood than there is carbonic acid, something like 95% bicarb to 5% carbonic acid.

He's right. I remember this from chem 2 and organic chem. Your blood is buffered and yes, it would take VERY LARGE amounts of baking soda to change the pH. I even remember the chem 2 lab when we were titrating a buffer solution with an acid and then a base. It took lots of each to change the pH.

What you are experiencing is the placebo effect. But if it works for you, then keep doing it.

[timeismoney]

Interesting concept though.

[phwSSJ]

No offense, but I seriously doubt this line of reasoning.

Your blood is buffered, meaning that it would take huge amounts of acid or base to change the pH of it, which is a good thing since you would die if your blood pH increased/decreased by as little as 0.5 pH from the norm of 7.4.

The way this works in your body is simple: You metabolic processes make free protons which increases acidity, these protons combine with bicarbonate(baking soda) to make carbonic acid which then decomposes to water and carbon dioxide and is excreted by the body through the lungs.

In the other direction your blood's pH is increased by the exhalation of CO2 and water, so then the carbonic acid in your blood dissociates to form H+ and bicarb. Also there is way more bicarb in the blood than there is carbonic acid, something like 95% bicarb to 5% carbonic acid.

well if what you say is true then why do they test sprinters for it?

I am pretty sure it works, I know a lot of wrestlers (all american) that used it.
That is who I got it from.

Like I said, I dont know very much sacientifically on this.
Its just what I was told and I felt like it works,
could very well be a placebo effect.

Thanks for the input!

anyone else know whats going on about this issue...drop in!

[supplementsavvy]

Think about the importance of homeostasis..everything in our bodies exists in a very careful balace. If baking soda had a substantial effect on pH level, this would completely disrupt normal cell functioning.

When I was younger, before I took chem and bio courses, I bought into the baking soda theory and tried it. I'll tell you one thing, you can't drink it as it tastes just awful. I tried it once and spat it out, and never tried it again.

[phwSSJ]

Think about the importance of homeostasis..everything in our bodies exists in a very careful balace. If baking soda had a substantial effect on pH level, this would completely disrupt normal cell functioning.

When I was younger, before I took chem and bio courses, I bought into the baking soda theory and tried it. I'll tell you one thing, you can't drink it as it tastes just awful. I tried it once and spat it out, and never tried it again.

Ya it is awefull about the same as CEE powder.

I dont understand what you mean about disrupting normal cell functioning.
Cuz there are a lot of substances people take that easily disrupt the ballance in the body.
A result of one is acne!

"NEW!
Use a blood buffer to combat free radicals and lactic acid!

Add up to one tablespoon of baking soda, sodium citrate, or potassium citrate to your drink of choice throughout the day. A mix of the sodium and potassium would be best. Why?
What does DNP and exercise have in common? During high intensity exercise (supramaximal) ATP production is supplied by anaerobic glycolysis. This increases levels of H+ (protons) both inside and outside the cell via lactate and results in the feeling of fatique (Hermansen and Osnes; Sahlin) In the past, the use of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) has been used and has been shown to decrease acidosis via buffering of the blood. The problem with baking soda is gastric distress and high salt intake with the recommended dosage of 300mg/kg which is around a tablespoon of baking soda for most people. Dosage for sodium citrate is 100mg-500mg per kg and did not give stomach problems to the users. Time to exhaustion was increased 15% which is the same as with baking soda. Alkalosis (making the blood basic) has been found to increase the rate of lactate and proton release from muscle into the blood. An increase in muscle pH causes phosphofructokinase inhibition (PFK) which is the controlling enzyme in glycogen utilization and therefore causes an increase in lactate formation. Those two mechanisms also will hold true for DNP as DNP releases protons which causes the heat. Get it out of the cell with the citrates."

(this is off of SV-1's DNP thread)
So if what you guys are saying is right, then he is also wrong.

[supplementsavvy]

My understanding is that body pH has to remain relatively stable, if it becomes too acidic or too basic this will affect cell metabolism and functioning. I may be wrong though.

Either way, taking baking soda just isn't practical because the taste is AWFUL, it would be like drinking a cup of salt water from the ocean every day, you just wouldn't do it. I've put up with my share of greens products (vegetable extracts) and protein powders that taste like crap but this is a new level of nasty...don't believe me, then ENJOY lol

[phwSSJ]

Either way, taking baking soda just isn't practical because the taste is AWFUL, it would be like drinking a cup of salt water from the ocean every day, you just wouldn't do it. I've put up with my share of greens products (vegetable extracts) and protein powders that taste like crap but this is a new level of nasty...don't believe me, then ENJOY lol

WUSSY :spudnik2:

[phwSSJ]

BUMP

BUMP

I wana know what you guys think on SV-1's read.
Please if you dont know what you are talking about and are just pissing in the wind then dont
clutter this thread with stuff like "it tastes bad".

[redmeat]

I'll do it before I bench tomorrow. How soon before you lift would you take it?

[phwSSJ]

an hour.
But unless you are doing a drop set or an exercise that has you working continuously for over a minute then it might not help as much.
This affects the anearobic glycolosis system, not the atp-pc system which is mainly recruited for short spurts of power and energy like weight lifting. Creatine would help more in that category.
however, I still think it would be beneficial!

[phwSSJ]

Bump

still no answer ???

[BajanBastard]

Most info (studies) on sodium bicarbonate are conflicting. I think you should try it and see how it works for you. Be careful it can give you the shiits.

[Powrlftr]

Let me say this again, eating bicarb will not change the pH of your blood at all. The buffer system in the blood is called the carbonic acid/bicarbonate buffer. The pH of your blood is 7.4, a large change in the pH of your blood will kill you. The enzymes in your body will become denatured (lose it's shape, or tertiary structure), and no longer functional at the wrong pH levels. Your enzymes are made of proteins, which are composed of amino acids. Most amino acids at a PH of 7 are zwitterions (molecules that have both a positive and negative ion). In the active site of an enzyme substrate is often bound by amino acid residues that are charged, such as aspartate, glutamate, arginine etc. If the pH of your blood is so out of whack, like below 2 the carboxylate groups on the amino acids will be protonated and above 10 the amino end will be deprotoned and so will any acid/base funtionalities found on the side chains.

A pH change would also probably hinder other metabolic processes, but I'm no expert on this subject so I'll plead ignorance and leave it at that.

[nixfan712]

....

[phwSSJ]

Ok, thanks.

[9000rpm]

Powrlftr is right. I'm a biology major at University of Virginia and he is right about the buffer. Also, certain enzymes are built for certain pH levels so if this trick did actually work all other metabolic processes would be messed up.

He is completely right. If your blood's pH level was so easily manipulated, then many people would die by simply eating certain foods. The human body is much more complex than that.

[hawkeye1877]

Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) can be considered both a biochemical, and physiological buffer within the body; commonly considered to be a medicine effective in the treatment of gastric acidity (stomach acid).

Sodium Bicarbonate can be considered to have nutritional ergogenic benefits, as baking soda can be easily included in a variety of common recipes; with athletes supplementing additional Sodium Bicarbonate in a wide variety of marketed forms. Within sporting literature, the use of Sodium Bicarbonate has been referred to as ‘buffer boosting’, ‘soda loading’ and ‘soda doping’.

In high intensity anaerobic exercise, an athletes fatigue has been closely associated with a corresponding increase in lactic acid.

Supplementing Sodium Bicarbonate can increase the athlete’s own Sodium Bicarbonate levels, and subsequently increasing the bodies ability to ‘buffer’ the lactic acid and delay the onset of fatigue in an anaerobic exercise activity.

More than 50 years of research into the potential ergogenic benefits of Sodium Bicarbonate supplementation have shown positive effects in approximately half of the studies. Recent research has shown significant positive effects attributable with Sodium Bicarbonate supplementation, with reported increases in plasma pH, thus reducing the acidosis in the muscle cell; with performance improvements in high intensity anaerobic exercise lasting approximately 1-7 minutes.

The precise mechanism behind the success of Sodium Bicarbonate has not been fully explained, although additional research has shown that other substances containing Sodium Bicarbonate (Sodium Citrate, Trisodium Phosphate and Sodium) have also been shown to have positive ergogenic benefits.

A typical supplemented dosage of Sodium Bicarbonate is 0.3g of per kg of bodyweigh approximately one hour prior to competition.

[Mealticket]

This stuff rally works,
It is considered doping for sprinters, and they get tested for it.
.

Yes it does. No it's not. And no we don't get tested.

Take ANY sodium bicarbonate 30-45 minutes beforee sprint event and it will assist i your muscles performing @ a higher leverl for SLIGHTLY longer.

It doesn't chage your PH level like some of you are arguing; what it does is help buffer the lactic acid that your body produces;thuss letting you go alittle harder than normal.

Lactic acid is the by product of oxygen and energy being burnt in your body.
My lactic threshold is 178bpm. While i can perform for extended periods @ and above my lactic threshold, taking a buffer agent such as baking soda will help in short sprints where ATP is the main source for enbergy.

Seriously bro...how they gonna test for sodium....you don';t get tested for it, whoever told you that didn't know there ass from there elbow.

Go by some Cytomax drink mix, it's got a buffer agent in it allready; and so do abut 1/2 doxen drink mnixes on the market; none of which are on the WADA list!

[phwSSJ]

Yes it does. No it's not. And no we don't get tested.

Take ANY sodium bicarbonate 30-45 minutes beforee sprint event and it will assist i your muscles performing @ a higher leverl for SLIGHTLY longer.

It doesn't chage your PH level like some of you are arguing; what it does is help buffer the lactic acid that your body produces;thuss letting you go alittle harder than normal.

Lactic acid is the by product of oxygen and energy being burnt in your body.
My lactic threshold is 178bpm. While i can perform for extended periods @ and above my lactic threshold, taking a buffer agent such as baking soda will help in short sprints where ATP is the main source for enbergy.

Seriously bro...how they gonna test for sodium....you don';t get tested for it, whoever told you that didn't know there ass from there elbow.

Go by some Cytomax drink mix, it's got a buffer agent in it allready; and so do abut 1/2 doxen drink mnixes on the market; none of which are on the WADA list!

Cool,
Most of what I know about that stuff is all from these All American wrestlers I know. So you know...
But I did try it and I knew it worked. I am finally glad someone came up and said something.
I was pretty sure that those dudes that took that one organic chem class were wrong about it!


Thanks Bros!!!

[9000rpm]

Cool,
Most of what I know about that stuff is all from these All American wrestlers I know. So you know...
But I did try it and I knew it worked. I am finally glad someone came up and said something.
I was pretty sure that those dudes that took that one organic chem class were wrong about it!


Thanks Bros!!!

It doesn't matter if I only took Chem 1 & 2 and Organic Chem 1. The fact still holds true that your blood's pH will not change from eating baking soda. You would have to eat enough to kill you to have it even put a dent in your pH level.

Believe what you will though, I could care less. But are you going to listen so a guy that is simply a sprinter or a wrestler? I guess that also means that the average NBA player is qualified to do open heart surgury also. Does gravity not exist just because I've only been through physics 1 & 2?

Your arguements are completely flawed and stupid.

[phwSSJ]

It doesn't matter if I only took Chem 1 & 2 and Organic Chem 1. The fact still holds true that your blood's pH will not change from eating baking soda. You would have to eat enough to kill you to have it even put a dent in your pH level.

Believe what you will though, I could care less. But are you going to listen so a guy that is simply a sprinter or a wrestler? I guess that also means that the average NBA player is qualified to do open heart surgury also. Does gravity not exist just because I've only been through physics 1 & 2?

Your arguements are completely flawed and stupid.

SV-1 seems to know what he is talking about!

and I wasnt saying you were stupid or didnt know anything at all. I was just saying that you cant learn that much from taking just one class. Maybe you know a lot more on the subject, but from what I read it seemed like you took organic chem just as a required class.

So dont go throwing stones so fast and call people stupid.

[hemidog66]

laxitive in high amounts huh?

[9000rpm]

SV-1 seems to know what he is talking about!

and I wasnt saying you were stupid or didnt know anything at all. I was just saying that you cant learn that much from taking just one class. Maybe you know a lot more on the subject, but from what I read it seemed like you took organic chem just as a required class.

So dont go throwing stones so fast and call people stupid.

No hard feelings bro, I just thought you were saying that we were stupid or something.

Doctors only take Anatomy once, and they learn what they need to know. Once is plenty in a class. If you had taken any kind of college chemistry, you would understand what we were talking about with buffers. And you would know how hard it is the change the pH in a buffered solution.

I can 100% guarantee you that what you are experiencing is the placebo effect. But if it works for you, then stick with it.

[Powrlftr]

Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) can be considered both a biochemical, and physiological buffer within the body; commonly considered to be a medicine effective in the treatment of gastric acidity (stomach acid).

Sodium Bicarbonate can be considered to have nutritional ergogenic benefits, as baking soda can be easily included in a variety of common recipes; with athletes supplementing additional Sodium Bicarbonate in a wide variety of marketed forms. Within sporting literature, the use of Sodium Bicarbonate has been referred to as ‘buffer boosting’, ‘soda loading’ and ‘soda doping’.

In high intensity anaerobic exercise, an athletes fatigue has been closely associated with a corresponding increase in lactic acid.

Supplementing Sodium Bicarbonate can increase the athlete’s own Sodium Bicarbonate levels, and subsequently increasing the bodies ability to ‘buffer’ the lactic acid and delay the onset of fatigue in an anaerobic exercise activity.

More than 50 years of research into the potential ergogenic benefits of Sodium Bicarbonate supplementation have shown positive effects in approximately half of the studies. Recent research has shown significant positive effects attributable with Sodium Bicarbonate supplementation, with reported increases in plasma pH, thus reducing the acidosis in the muscle cell; with performance improvements in high intensity anaerobic exercise lasting approximately 1-7 minutes.

The precise mechanism behind the success of Sodium Bicarbonate has not been fully explained, although additional research has shown that other substances containing Sodium Bicarbonate (Sodium Citrate, Trisodium Phosphate and Sodium) have also been shown to have positive ergogenic benefits.

A typical supplemented dosage of Sodium Bicarbonate is 0.3g of per kg of bodyweigh approximately one hour prior to competition.

So post some references then.

One thing though .... this effect is only seen in about half the studies? That doesn't seem very reassuring to me.

[Powrlftr]

Here's a reference: http://www.sportsci.org/traintech/buffer/lrm.htm
1-2% increase isn't very much ... but maybe if you are an elite sprinter it'd be worth a try.

[The Baron]

The problem with the placebo effect is that once you tell the subject that his results are placebic (word!) in nature, you have ruined the placebo effect for him, because he will no longer believe that the substance he is taking is capable of actually giving him those gains. You meanie.

[goldenFloyd]

isn't there an entire diet industry coming out of this: the alkaline diet? supposedly works against cancer, etc. yadda yadda yadda.

[9000rpm]

This might help.

Blood Buffering

[hawkeye1877]

i got taht article i posted from http://www.supplements4sport.com/sod...bonate%201.htm

[Mealticket]

Who pissed in your Cheerios 9000rpm.,

Like powerlifter said (Here's a reference: http://www.sportsci.org/traintech/buffer/lrm.htm
1-2% increase isn't very much ... but maybe if you are an elite sprinter it'd be worth a try.)

You realize how much a 1% increase in performance is @ the Elite level. That means the differnt between being on the podium and finishing last sometimes.
It will help buffer the effect of lactic acid. I've had my l/t done several times @ CSU and it does affect MY critical power @ L/T.
So i guesss if we are alll worng you can write the United States Olympic Committee and tell them that their sprint cycling coaces don't know jack **** about what they give their athletes.

LMAO....I'll remember that next time i'm @ a world cup event and you're @ home reding this thread

[ddoublevision]

I take baking sode for an upset stomach

some use it to make crack

old ladies use it for cooking or the fridge

that about all its good for

[phwSSJ]

I just spoke with some of my professors on the issue and they agree with 9000rpm.

[9000rpm]

LMAO....I'll remember that next time i'm @ a world cup event and you're @ home reding this thread

Yeah,....ok.