I've just got to BITCH for a minute

**hammerhead** · 03-20-2002, 07:28 AM

I just blew up on a guy at work. I'm going to lay down a thread here and i'm going to bitch my side of this thing. Feel free to sound in and join me or bitch back at me but here goes:

This wuss guy keeps whining about his weight. He's like late 30s (my age) and he's picking up weight and he's whining about it. He's "trying" to lose weight and not succeeding. His regimen includes - get ready for this - climbing the stairs (4 flights) on the way to the office every morning instead of taking the elevator. He parks in the back of the parking lot and walks a whopping 5 minutes maybe to the building too. He drinks diet coke and skips the cheesebuger/fries lunch and opts for soup instead sometimes and he's just not dropping those pounds.

He made a comment to me the other day about me being so lucky because i'm thin and muscular and I don't have to worry about my weight like he does (oh poor me everybody cry for me). He was whining that he might actually have to start exercising and going hungry to lose the weight (wa wa wa).

I laid in on this punk. I told him "get your pussy ass in the gym and do some real exercise and start eating a real diet and shut the fu*k up about it. I've been working out since Reagan was running for re-election and watching my diet since Gorbachev left office. I'm not thin and muscular because God handed me this body on a silver platter I worked for it. Yes you have to actually exercise and yes you will go hungry sometimes to lose the pounds big fuc*ing deal. Either do something real about it or shut the hell up."

I think he deserved it (he's not a very likeable guy anyway). I get so sick and tired of the attitude that I'm so lucky to have this body like I was just born this way. Gimme a break. Eat my diet one day and drag your ass in the gym with me and i'll show you what luck really is!

**Pete235** · 03-20-2002, 07:36 AM

Sadly that is what most deconditioned people think. The belief is that we always looked like this and always will. The average person has NO idea what kind of strict eating and training regimes bodybuilders follow (when I say bodybuilder I refer to anybody who trains to improve their physique...not just those who compete). Next time somebody says "Your lucky you have the type of body you do" reply "The odd this is....the harder I work...the luckier I get!" They'll get the hint

**TheStromba** · 03-20-2002, 07:46 AM

Hammerhead - I'm glad that you let him have it. When guys like us are working our asses off in the gym, he is sitting on the la-z-boy eating doritos and drinking beer. Screw him.

I had a guy that I work with ask me why I look so fit. When I told him "because I spend 5-6 days a week in the gym" his answer was "Oh I dont have time for that" Let them live in the
nasty, putrid, obese bodies they create for themselves. Guys like that make fit guys look better anyway.

Glad I could vent........

**XBiker** · 03-20-2002, 07:50 AM

I hear ya bro.

How many times do you think I have heard, "Gee, I wish I had his metabolism..."

Yeah right, they have no idea what we do to ourselves to look good. The only see the outer surface.

**Core** · 03-20-2002, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by XBiker
How many times do you think I have heard, "Gee, I wish I had his metabolism..."

I here that all the time!

I guess the 2hrs in the gym I really dont need

**beenie** · 03-20-2002, 08:53 AM

I hear all the time too from people who want stuff but don't realizer the cost.

They want to be thin so:
-they eat 8 cookies instead of the whole box
-they take a 10 minute walk in the evening (a lot of the time)
-they eat reduced fat potato chips
-they eat Lean Cuisine TV dinners and lots of them

Its like wanting to be rich, but refusing to earn an income.

Don't know about you, but I work my ass off. Watch my diet and spend many hours in the gym. Some guys definitely look better than do I and it comes easier for some than for others, but it is a MAJOR inverstment that these guys are unable to comprehend. My bet is that even after you gave it to him, Hmaerhead, it still didn't sink in.

Maybe now he'll go for the reduced fat dressing on his McSalad that he has with his double cheesbuger and french fries that he is eating so that he will be healthy.

**Mighty Joe** · 03-20-2002, 09:17 AM

When I was a Kid I overheard my GrandMother tell my sister "You gotta suffer to be Beautiful!"

Truer words were never spoken!

MJ

**REM** · 03-20-2002, 09:41 AM

we understand the reason why you r bitching and
here everyone knows that it takes more than just
running back and forward on stairs and to walk
for 5 min. this guy is old enough and needs to be
educated by you....

**XBiker** · 03-20-2002, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by beenie
[...]

Its like wanting to be rich, but refusing to earn an income.

Amen, brotha.

**arthurb999** · 03-20-2002, 10:12 AM

I agree wholeheartedly.

**Ajax** · 03-20-2002, 10:55 AM

I think it's a case of explaining true commitment to people who are used to comfortably 'just getting by.'

Most people have had it pretty easy: college, a decent job, OK paycheck and never REALLY had to bust their ass to achieve. When they see somebody that has achieved (where they haven't) they attribute it to "luck" "genetics" (an inherited form of luck) or soemthing else.

You can explain how to do every exercise, give them a killer routine, spell out the ultimate diet for them. But I don't know how you can teach them the commitment, discipline and dedication they need to follow through with it.

If they are used to failure--or non-success--they just attibute any problem to 'bad luck,' 'poor genetics' or some other mysterious fiorce external to them--one they can't control.

It's all attitude! Until they get that they are doomed!

**jon** · 03-20-2002, 10:56 AM

Hammerhead I completaly agree with you. We all have to work hard

**popeyethasailah** · 03-20-2002, 10:57 AM

my buddy got one of his friends a membership to the gym, so we could get him in shape.($350). after going to the gym on a daily basis with the kid, who was overweight and always wasting time in the gym... i lost it, somewhat like you did HAMMER. it is really frustrating that people will complain about shit like this, when you know that even if they do work hard (NOT always), but they might swong by McDonalds on the way home from the gym... this thread would be great for people like that to actually read themselves, but unfortunately most of the people on these boards are here because they have a desire to be in shape, for the most part, and will bust their balls. but either way its some food for thought, peace.

**VEGETA990** · 03-20-2002, 11:21 AM

Here is one that happened to me yesterday. I'm eating dinner at the cafe with my 3 roommates. The one guy is fu*king fat. His diet is garbage. They know me and how health conscious I am. My diet is better than every single person at this school. He'll eat 500+ calorie cheezeburgers and I'll eat chicken and rice.

Anyway, I finish of dinner with a bowl of rice crispies (the most healthy cereal I have to choose from). I put 2 packets of sugar on top of it and he starts laughing at me. I know what hes laughing at, but I ask anyway - What the f*ck is so funny?

He says something like so... you gonna wash that down with a protein shake (hes thinking to himself how unhealthy it is for me to use 2 packets of sugar)?

I look at him and I say - Who the fu*k are you to comment on my diet. Every week I am dropping weight and I'm not trying to. I should be eating over 3,000 calories a day just to maintain my weight, but I don't come anywhere near that.

He gets up and leaves and I think to myself - This is the same guy thats telling me I should walk instead of run because I can walk for a longer peroid of time than I can run. This is the same guy that owns a video called 7 minute abs. This is a guy who is fat and overweight and does nothing but complain about being heavy. For the once a month he does go to the gym, hes in there for about 20 minutes - and he complains about how much strength he lost. He is fat and his diet is sh*t. He has no motivation, he would rather sit on his ass and watch SpongeBob Squarepants instead of workout.

I can write a book about how poor his diet and motivation are, so I'll just stop here.

Bottom line - I work for what I have. When some lazy fu*k critisizes my diet/training, I get really pissed off. I know my sh*t. And he doesn't know his a** from a hole in the ground.

Ignorant simple-minded people, man do they push my bottons. Ok I feel better now. Thanks guys.

**Baldguy** · 03-20-2002, 12:08 PM

I usually reply w/ a statement I saw attributed to Arnold, "Luck is for the ill-prepared" then watch as they scratch their heads and try to figure it out.

For the majority of people what we do is beyond comprehension. There are hours in the gym. Not just going through a routine but busting our asses and forcing our muscles to grow. For the most part we follow a nutritional regime that the normal person will never understand.

I used to get really pissed at family gatherings w/ a girl I was dating. Her mother, who is overweight and miserable b/c of it, would always make a rude comment when I would pass up the not so healthy foods that were being passed around.

Never could understand it. Here I am politely and quietly trying to stick to my diet and she would be rude enough to bring attention to the fact that I wasn't eating a dessert or fat laden dish. Never once did I comment about how fat she was and that she could stand to skip a few dishes.

..........and somehow through all of this, I was the bad guy.

**TNT** · 03-20-2002, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by hammerhead
I just blew up on a guy at work. I'm going to lay down a thread here and i'm going to bitch my side of this thing. Feel free to sound in and join me or bitch back...

In the name of providing a counterpoint, I'm going to take you up on your invitation, bro.

I think you're coming off as an asshole. No, I think you're coming off as a perfectly pompous, presumptuous, priggish, piss-ant putz. But then, I love alliteration.

(Like I said, since you asked...)

Follow me for a second here. You see a guy who does nothing more than walking four flights of stairs instead of taking the elevator, walking fro the back of the parking lot instead of parking next to the building, and giving up burgers and fries in favr of soup. And while you're bitching that you see a half-empty glass of water, I see a half-full glass of water. Because the great unwashed majority of people I see take the elevator, park in handicapped spots when they have no disability so they can save a few steps, and live at McDonald's. I see this guy doing something, which is a hell of a lot better than doing what most people do - nothing.

I also see his attitude as reaching out to you for some help and advice. You had the chance to do something positive for someone, and you fucked it up. Realy, man, you did not earn your Brownie points today. Which is a shame, because if you had steered this dude in the right direction, you would be feeling a hell of a lot better about yourself than you're obviously feeling now, and more of us would be patting you on the back instead of bitching along with you. No, his attitude is not lazy at all, it's simply ignorant - he obviously lacks knowledge about what he should be doing. You've got that knowledge, you had a chance to share it, and instead, you acted like a judgmental jackass.

All of you guys who are joining hammerhead in his rant are examples of what the Bible refers to as the dudes who pray by saying, "Lord, I thank thee that I am not like that fat putz over there." (Sorry, folks, don't mean to get into a religion trip, but I couldn't think of a better paraphrase.) I hate to tell y'all this, but the only difference between a fat putz and a thin putz is weight.

Hammerhead, you've got an opporunity to become twice as big a man tomorrow as you were today. And it begins taking a hammer and smashing the hell out of that paper maché pedestal you're standing on and dropping that self-righteous bullshit that you're preaching. You may be thinner than this other dude at work, but you are not better. Frankly, if you were as nasty a sleazebag as you describe yourself here, you owe this guy an apology big-time. Moreover, you owe it to him to help him with whatever advice or assistance he needs to go down the right track toward meeting his goals - if he would even let you do so at this point.

Finally, my bro, grow up. I expect this kind of rant to come from someone who's 20 years younger than you, someone who hasn't been out in the real world, hasn't paid his dues in the workplace, and hasn't had the time to develop quality professional relationships. I would find it hard to believe that you're in your late 30's. Guys I know in their late 30's don't feel the need to get into snapping-fingers-in-a-circle hissy fits when someone comes along that they think is not as good as them.

You said that your colleague is not a very likeable guy? Gee, wonder why . . .

Look, we all need to dump occasionally. All of us need to unload a gripe or two, but you've taken it to an art form. Your message provided nothing of a constructive or positive nature, and I doubt that it even provided you with any catharsis. (Look it up, boys and girls.) Moreover, it was a downer for me. And the only way I can deal with that is to ask if you want a little cheese with your whine. In fact, I found it amusing that you accused the other guy of whining. I remember to this day the very first joke I [ever read in Playboy's Party Jokes: "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw parties."

'Nuff said. Do an attitude adjustment - you will be hapier for it.

**Pete235** · 03-20-2002, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by TNT
catharsis. (Look it up, boys and girls.)

A cleansing of the tragic emotions....and I didn't even have to look it up

**Ironweb** · 03-20-2002, 12:54 PM

When people ask me question of that nature I always invite them to join me at the gym. No one has taken me up on that but it is a personal choice. It is hard for me to find people as commited to the sport of bodybuilding as myself. That is why I am very thankful for a board as this to share my passion with.

***Shredz*** · 03-20-2002, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by hammerhead
I think he deserved it (he's not a very likeable guy anyway). I get so sick and tired of the attitude that I'm so lucky to have this body like I was just born this way. Gimme a break. Eat my diet one day and drag your ass in the gym with me and i'll show you what luck really is!

ouch!!!!!!!!

but soooooooooooooooooo true

**REM** · 03-20-2002, 01:06 PM

can you guys stop bitching about and give me some
help on subjet ANIMAL CLINIC PLEASE....

**BigD** · 03-20-2002, 01:40 PM

I agree with TNT.

I cant stand it when i hear people bitch about not liking their body but not doing anything about it. However I'm not going to lie I bitch about the way i look all the time, that's what help push me that much more at the gym. But i can bitch because i do something about it.

However I try and help people out at work all the time. And I always here, "man you get up at 4:30am to do cardio I just cant do that" or "damn you drink a whole gallon of water a day". My reply is always the same, i didn't start doing all this over night, it took time to condition myself to where I am today. I tell them to take steps, some people can take bigger steps than others. If you cant drink a gallon of water a day then start with a few glasses. If you can wake up that early then start going in the afternoon. Any little thing helps.

I remember the first time i ever went to a Gym. My friend had me training like I had been working out for years. It took several months for me to go back after that. You have to take things slow. Give them encouragement and help push them but remember it takes more time for some people than it does others.

That being said, if your bitching about wanting to loose weight and your response to all the advice I give is “I cant do that” Then yes your gonna get your ass chewed out.

**gettinthere** · 03-20-2002, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by TNT

No, his attitude is not lazy at all, it's simply ignorant - he obviously lacks knowledge about what he should be doing.

Most of your reply was on target as usual, but I disagree with you on this tnt. He may not be completely knowledgable about dieting and weight-training, but he is also lazy. Lazy as most people? Maybe not, but nevertheless lazy.

**TNT** · 03-20-2002, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by gettinthere
Most of your reply was on target as usual, but I disagree with you on this tnt. He may not be completely knowledgable about dieting and weight-training, but he is also lazy. Lazy as most people? Maybe not, but nevertheless lazy.

I'll concede this as a general point, gettinthere, but let's review the specific individual that hammerhead described: He does walk stairs, he does park far, and he does avoid junk food. My take is that he doesn't know what else he should do because he hasn't been shown, or that he hasn't known where to look. Even intelligent people can have their heads up their butts on issues like this.

But as a general rule, I agree with you fully. On the other hand, most people who say, "Oh, I couldn't do that" are not doing anything. They're taking the elevator, parking close, and pigging out on grease and fat.

By the way, for what it's worth, I have a confessino to make. I know that this is gonna sound weird, and y'all can tell me I'm wimping out (alright, that's rhetorical - I can hear you saying it already), but . . . One of the gyms I occasionally go to is on two floors. The cardio area is on the second floor, and you can take an elevator or walk the steps to get there.

I always take the elevator. I admit it. I'm lazy. It's a head thing. But once I get to the second floor, I generally hit the stair climber for about a half-hour, or the eliptical crosstrainer for upwards of an hour at high incline and tight resistance. In other words, I do more high-resistance cardio than most of the guys putting on a show in the weight room, but I take the elevator. Which proves what? (Rhetorical question. It proves, of course, nothing. But there will always be some dickhead who uses crap like that as a measure of cocksmanship. And, if you measure life in elevators versus stairs, especially at work, hanmmerhead's colleague is better than I am.)

That said, let me ask a rhetorical question in closing: Who is worse off, the guy who has the balls to walk four flihts of stairs when he could take an elevator, or the fat woman who walks on a treadmill at the gym while she watches a soap opera? (The answer? We don't know. Because we have to look at the big picture.)

**Iron horse** · 03-20-2002, 02:25 PM

TNT, your post on he could have helped that guy, and not earning brownie points made me feel bad inside because at first I thought it was ok he reacted that way.. but now I just feel bad for that guy that's actualy trying a bit and needs motivation.

Hammerhead, I felt the same way as you until I read TNT's post.
it would make ME feel good, if you attempted to help him again, not that you should be trying to please me, but something to think about?

**latman49** · 03-20-2002, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by VEGETA990
Here is one that happened to me yesterday. I'm eating dinner at the cafe with my 3 roommates. The one guy is fu*king fat. His diet is garbage. They know me and how health conscious I am. My diet is better than every single person at this school. He'll eat 500+ calorie cheezeburgers and I'll eat chicken and rice.

Dude, I hear you 100% on that one. I live with a FATASS, I call this guy Jaba the Hut because he's always lying on the couch eating some greasy shit. He always makes comments about my diet like when I eat broiled chicken and oatmeal. He always says "How can you eat that, that's gross". I just sit there and think to myself "No, gross is watching you eat a fucking P'zone like you're having sex with it. Just shut up and keep getting fatter."

**dyno45** · 03-20-2002, 03:07 PM

It's funny how everyone who really doesn't understand the dedication it takes thinks the bodies we have came in a box. These are the people with their closets full of those tony little "fitness machines" they use for clothes racks. I personally have a very hard time gaining weight. I despise it when people tell me I'm lucky that way. Under my breath I'm saying f**ck you.

**TNT** · 03-20-2002, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Diesel
TNT, I agree with what you are saying, however, in my initial read of hammerheads post, I came away basically focused on the fact that his co-worker stated that he was lucky to look the way he does. Luck has nothing to do with it...

Diesel, o good bro from Joisey (I can say that - I went to college in New Joisey), I intrinsically agree with you. But I think that we're being a little too sensitive as to language.

The idiot who says that we're "lucky" to be built the way we are isn't trying to insult us. He's not trying to imply that we don't work to get where we're at, he simply doesn't have a clue about how much we work to get where we're at.

I think the issue I sense in this thread goes deeper than simply knowing thet we do as much as we do. There are two groups operating here: men and women tyhat bust their nuts to achieve excellence with their bodies. We'll call that group "Us."

The other group, obviously, is the couch potatoes that munch out of their butts all day or niht. Lattman49 paints a vivid picture of this group when he writes, "Gross is watching you eat a fucking P'zone like you're having sex with it." Obviously, we'll call this group "Them."

So there you have it. It's Us versus Them. And we will come out on top every time.

But if there is victory in being toned (not that there was ever a competition between Us and Them), there's also the matter of grace in victory. And it's a poor sensibility to take the noses of Them and rub them in the dirt.

If we look good, that's cool. It's what we do with it that counts. And when someone, regardless of how he or she looks, compliments me on how I look, I have a very simple response: "Thank you." No flames, no insults, no "If you took that SuperGiantBigGulpMassiveUltraPizzaBurgerAndFries out of your mouth, you could look like me, too." An attitude like that is not necessary, it's not appropriate, it doesn't do him any good, it doesn't do me any good, it's corrupting to the psyche (namely, mine), and it just plain sucks eggs.

All I know is that, in the end run, what goes around comes around. Two thoughts to put that in perspective . . .

First, there will come a day when you stand in judgment before that big Musclejock in the sky. He's gonna look at you and say, "Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!" Then you're realize what a shit you were today.

Second, true poetic justice would be if, ten years down the road, you were to run into the dude you reamed out today. You'd be fat and dumpy, and he would have gotten his act together to be ripped. And when you ask him how he did it, he's gonnna respond with the words in the first post in this thread: "Get your pussy ass in the gym and do some real exercise and start eating a real diet and shut the fu*k up about it." Then he'll tack on, "Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!"

That's poetic justice.

**blizzard** · 03-20-2002, 05:11 PM

I totally agree with you bros and apart from it I want to claim about something.The fact is people in the gym,the ones which are try to be like us,blame us saying drug addicts!!I was nearly killing somebody cause of that!(he was 40)he started to say "son you are wasting your body,you are looking good but what about inside?Arnold had operation ya know?" I got really mad above all.All the people admire us but apart from it,they blame us"hoh he's using drugs that's why he is like that".I hate it I hate it I hate it!!! This sport made me self-confident and determined,balanced,thoughtful,regardful then??These d**kheads mess everything putting us same with heroin addicts.I'm really calm and sensitive but this insane treatment to my brothers make me sick,really damned!

**hammerhead** · 03-20-2002, 05:12 PM

Update ------

I did read all the posts including TNTs. I have no response except to stand by my original point. My post was not the whole story and based on what I said any number of conclusions can be drawn. So have at it. Everybody's right depending on how you look at it.

I talked with the guy later today and we both laughed about it. I showed him what my diet and routine is and he was truly amazed. He really didn't know the dedication it takes. He sees what I eat 3 meals a day at work so this was not as big a surprise as he makes it seem. I offered him some advice on his diet and I even offered to take him to the gym as a guest and show him around. I've not behaved in any way I feel I should apologize for.

I let him understand and I want everyone here to understand that my big problem is with his whining about it all and his "feel sorry for me" attitude and the "there is NOTHING I can do about it i'm stuck with being fat" motto. My disposition is either do something about it or shut up.

He's not angry at me nor I at him. I hope he takes my advice and I wish the best of luck. As of right now he says he's going to make some changes. He's very very aware of what needs to be done. So before everyone runs to his defense let's wait and see if he does anything. If he holds true to his track record he'll diet and exercise for 2 weeks and then start making excuses not to do it anymore and start whining about how he just cannot lose weight. And if he does i'll tell him I don't want to hear it - do something real or shut up. And I won't apologize to him nor anyone here for it either.

**hammerhead** · 03-20-2002, 11:49 PM

Bump.

I guess I have to do something to get this thread started again so here it goes ... right back at you TNT. Everybody stop YOUR whining in defense of this non-disciplined sloth and stop insulting my intelligence. Noone that age is stupid enough to believe that you can eat sausage and pepperoni pizza for lunch four days a week and soup on Fridays and lose weight. Everyone stop defending people who "diet" and "exercise" and fail because they just don't know what to do. Oh those poor people we should go help them and tell them they need to stop eating crap all day and need to actually exercise. Like they really don't know that already.

That bullshit!

Come on everybody there is a such thing as common sense! I didn't take some college course on how to take care of my body just to get to where I am today.

The real point we've not yet mentioned is that most often these people feel helpless. They need to know that with the right program I WILL lose weight. They need to be taught to believe in themselves and believe that they can achieve thier goals. If everyone truly believed they'd lose weight on the diets and routines we suggest I bet there would be alot of crowded gyms and there would be alot more fit people in this world. I truly believe that this guys main problem is that he doesn't truly believe the diets and exercise will work and that's why he gives up so easily. And that's why he whines about the futility of diet. I'm going to convince this guy that he really can and will achieve his goals if he really puts himself into it.

My roommate, second year of college, was alot like this guy. He tried to lose weight for months and failed. I challenged him - we agreed that everytime either of us missed a workout or a jog we'd owe the other one $10. He lost 40 lbs. that semester. And I don't want a pat on the back. HE did it. Not me. He believed and he did not give up!

**Tapout** · 03-21-2002, 12:19 AM

hammer head come by my work tommorow and bitch this dude out for me- one of my partners is doing the same thing--bitches about being fat ,wont go to the gym that is walking distance from work and eats like shit..asks for help so when eating mcdonalds(double cheese burger with fries but takes off the top of bun to lesson the carbs-what the fuck)then gets pissed when i say something then gets diet coke---just for the tase of it?hes going to cause me to start xanax

**hammerhead** · 03-21-2002, 12:22 AM

I tried valium it doesn't work. Try flaming him. I feel better already. You might want to skip the post though.

**Tapout** · 03-21-2002, 12:38 AM

hed probably like the flame he wants attention

**McBain** · 03-21-2002, 01:01 AM

Damn this post has been food for thought. After reading the initial post I was ready to add my own frustrations until I read TNT's post, sort of profound in a way

. I had never looked at it from you way you said it TNT, I have to admit I have looked down in some ways on people who don't eat right and don't treat their bodies well, I'm not a dick to them and I keep it to myself but I do look down upon them in a way. I also try to help them though and I've ever stopped my workouts before to help someone I didn't even know who asked me some questions, so in some ways I think I am on the right track in my view of this whole us vs them thing. Quiet frankly I agree with you TNT if someone is fat, yelling at them isn't going to do them any good, although sometimes its hard to turn the other cheek. Emotions usually aren't very helpful when trying to make decisions. I am definitely going to make a conscious effort to see things from their perspective and not get angry when people say things to me. The only thing I get BULLSHIT about is when people start calling me a homo for lifting or owning Arnold's encyc, that sends me off the deep end, I don't have a problem with gays or nothing as long as they don't hit on me, but to disrespect a sport that is full of hard work by saying they are all gay just sets me off, that's one thing I can't not get mad at especially since reps sort of are important at my age (almost 21) and someone saying your gay getting around can hurt one's chance with the ladies

Anyways good posts from both sides and I applaud you TNT for bringing the other side to the picture, from the way I look at it, now, it's like a rich man making fun of a poor man, saying "Why didn't you work hard in school and go to a good college?" You don't know the full story behind it, and its not constructive, but at the same time I can totally see where you are coming from hammer, it's sometimes hard not to explode

**R.I.E.N.G.** · 04-01-2002, 02:28 PM

May I say; I for one, laughed my ass off while reading this thread, I know just how you feel hammerhead!

**jetskidude** · 04-01-2002, 02:55 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TNT
Finally, my bro, grow up. [QUOTE]

wow TNT. you had me until you made that comment.

John 8; 7... He without sin cast the first stone...

here's an illustration i did recently using that verse.