From what i've read...I got some lame advice

**Cygnus** · 03-09-2005, 11:47 AM

Ok first off, if this the wrong place for this I apologize in advance and will stand corrected in the future. I want to start with the "how and why." I am 38 6'2 215. A hard gainer and have been an athlete my whole life. I wanted to add some mass and bulk up a bit. Ive tried several different methods without much results in the way of mass. I am a Correctional Officer and while this doesnt really mean a d*** thing, if you've ever found yourself in the middle of a free -for- all with massive guys that have nothing but time to workout and are huge then maybe you can understand where size and strength can help. Thats the "why."
Here is the "how." Some of my buddies at work are massive and gave me a suggestion which I followed but havent actually started taking yet but do have. After reading these posts i'm thinkin these guys are givin out some lame advice. Here is what they said...

8-12 week cycle of:

(stacked together mind you)

Dbol and Deca
oh, this is ORALLY by the way
(pin sticks dont bother me but this was the only method provided)

No mention of TEST at all.

From what i've read, this advice sucks big time.

I'm almost thinkin i'm better off just flushing them altogether. Since there seems to be a boatload of knowledge in here I wanted to put that out so someone can tell me what i've already deduced. Yes I am going to go back through the posts to try and gain more info on this ORAL stack. Anyone please feel free to add your 2 cents worth. I consider all advice. Knowledge is power.

**Swifto** · 03-09-2005, 11:53 AM

for a 1st timer just stick with test and leave the deca out for a future cycle

wk 1-4 30mg dbol ED
wk 1-12 Test Enan 500mg/wk (250mg/wk x2, Monday/Thursday)
wk 1-12 10mg nolva ED
wk 1-18 glutamine ED

PCT

wk 14-18 nolva 20mg ED
wk 14-18 clomid 100mg ED (max 30 days)
wk 14-18 creatine 5g ED
wk 14-18 tribulas 4g ED or tonkat ali

go with a simple cycle like this for a 1st time, the results u obtain will b good

get ur diet in check also, lots of cals for MASS!!!

good luck

**supplementsavvy** · 03-09-2005, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by bigswiftos

for a 1st timer just stick with test and leave the deca out for a future cycle

wk 1-4 30mg dbol ED
wk 1-12 Test Enan 500mg/wk (250mg/wk x2, Monday/Thursday)
wk 1-12 10mg nolva ED
wk 1-18 glutamine ED

PCT

wk 14-18 nolva 20mg ED
wk 14-18 clomid 100mg ED (max 30 days)
wk 14-18 creatine 5g ED
wk 14-18 tribulas 4g ED or tonkat ali

go with a simple cycle like this for a 1st time, the results u obtain will b good

get ur diet in check also, lots of cals for MASS!!!

good luck

Good cycle suggestions, just remember to use the clomid after the enanthate has had a chance to completely leave your system. Some people start using clomid too soon after their last injection while their test levels are still through the roof (compared to baseline). Enanthate and cypionate are long acting esters, meaning they stick around for weeks due to a slow release. So wait a good two weeks after your last injection of enanthate to start on the clomid.

The d-bol is great to kickstart gains but can be a little harsh for some people. If you don't like it, you can try test propionate , it goes to work almost as quickly as dbol so it's great for kickstarting a cycle. Inject cypionate once week and propionate very other day for eight weeks. A solid, simple cycle.

**righton** · 03-09-2005, 12:26 PM

Definitely check out the beginners cycles(dbol ,test,deca ) which is perfect for a novice. And you don't need to do alot on the first cycle:

30mg/day dbol
200mg/wk test
200mg/wk deca

You don't need 500 this or that to put on 25-30lbs of LBM with the above cycle.

***G-1000*** · 03-09-2005, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by bigswiftos

for a 1st timer just stick with test and leave the deca out for a future cycle

wk 1-4 30mg dbol ED
wk 1-12 Test Enan 500mg/wk (250mg/wk x2, Monday/Thursday)
wk 1-12 10mg nolva ED
wk 1-18 glutamine ED

PCT

wk 14-18 nolva 20mg ED
wk 14-18 clomid 100mg ED (max 30 days)
wk 14-18 creatine 5g ED
wk 14-18 tribulas 4g ED or tonkat ali

go with a simple cycle like this for a 1st time, the results u obtain will b good

get ur diet in check also, lots of cals for MASS!!!

good luck

bro this is a nice first cycle. i dont think you can go wrog by doing test only.

***G-1000*** · 03-09-2005, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by righton

Definitely check out the beginners cycles(dbol ,test,deca ) which is perfect for a novice. And you don't need to do alot on the first cycle:

30mg/day dbol
200mg/wk test
200mg/wk deca

You don't need 500 this or that to put on 25-30lbs of LBM with the above cycle.

test should be higher then deca

**Hed** · 03-09-2005, 05:31 PM

YOu dontn even need the dbol , just run the test at 500 a week and youll gain man. That way, if something goes wrong with you, you know its just the test and you dont have to guess if its test or dbol doin it.........

**Property of Steroid.com** · 03-09-2005, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Cygnus

I am a Correctional Officer and while this doesnt really mean a d*** thing, if you've ever found yourself in the middle of a free -for- all with massive guys that have nothing but time to workout and are huge then maybe you can understand where size and strength can help. .

Yeah... but I was one of those guys who had nothing but time to workout....

**Mesomorphyl** · 03-09-2005, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Cygnus

Dbol and Deca
oh, this is ORALLY by the way
(pin sticks dont bother me but this was the only method provided)

From what i've read, this advice sucks big time.

Yes I am going to go back through the posts to try and gain more info on this ORAL stack. Anyone please feel free to add your 2 cents worth. I consider all advice. Knowledge is power.

Deca oral??? Yeah, your buddies are about as smart as a box of rocks.

**Jantzen4k** · 03-09-2005, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by righton

Definitely check out the beginners cycles(dbol ,test,deca ) which is perfect for a novice. And you don't need to do alot on the first cycle:

30mg/day dbol
200mg/wk test
200mg/wk deca

You don't need 500 this or that to put on 25-30lbs of LBM with the above cycle.

this is horrible dont listen to him.

just do test 500mg/12 weeks

and decca oral?

**righton** · 03-10-2005, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Jantzen4k

this is horrible dont listen to him.

just do test 500mg/12 weeks

and decca oral?

Explain that?

**Ntpadude** · 03-10-2005, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Cygnus

Ok first off, if this the wrong place for this I apologize in advance and will stand corrected in the future. I want to start with the "how and why." I am 38 6'2 215. A hard gainer and have been an athlete my whole life. I wanted to add some mass and bulk up a bit. Ive tried several different methods without much results in the way of mass.
8-12 week cycle of:

(stacked together mind you)

Dbol and Deca
oh, this is ORALLY by the way
(pin sticks dont bother me but this was the only method provided)

No mention of TEST at all.

From what i've read, this advice sucks big time.

I'm almost thinkin i'm better off just flushing them altogether. Since there seems to be a boatload of knowledge in here I wanted to put that out so someone can tell me what i've already deduced. Yes I am going to go back through the posts to try and gain more info on this ORAL stack. Anyone please feel free to add your 2 cents worth. I consider all advice. Knowledge is power.

Well 2 things. I believe Deca is worthless when taken orally. Also correctional officer. What happens if you get caught trying to obtain future cycles? End of job permanently let alone possible felony charge. You could end up with nothing but time to get big and huge.

Second is, might get big doing steroids , but are you going to do just one cycle and never do it again? I think in this case, you are better off to not do steroids at all. You grow a lot when on, you can keep some afterwards but eventually it all goes away and even for a period of time in post cycle - you think you are a hardgainer now??? It gets real hard to gain like you wont believe after a cycle, if not a fight to keep from shrinking down some. Everyone reacts differently but majority will loose looose loose after a cycle and sometimes shrink down to smaller then before when doing 1 cycle only/ever because you often leave a cycle with lower testosterone production then before. If you are planning to do several cycles for a few years into the future then thats different.

**Jantzen4k** · 03-10-2005, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by righton

Definitely check out the beginners cycles(dbol ,test,deca ) which is perfect for a novice. And you don't need to do alot on the first cycle:

30mg/day dbol
200mg/wk test
200mg/wk deca

You don't need 500 this or that to put on 25-30lbs of LBM with the above cycle.

test should be 100mg higher then decca and run at 400-500mg/wk

this is the kids 1st cylce, why dbol & decca?

**RUballs0514** · 03-10-2005, 10:04 AM

i also think that a test cycle is better and safer than running multiple ones at the same time. he'll gain plenty off of it. JMO

**Jantzen4k** · 03-10-2005, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by RUballs0514

i also think that a test cycle is better and safer than running multiple ones at the same time. he'll gain plenty off of it. JMO

yup yup

**righton** · 03-10-2005, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Jantzen4k

test should be 100mg higher then decca and run at 400-500mg/wk

this is the kids 1st cylce, why dbol & decca?

Why not get the max out of the first cycle?? My first cycle was dbol /test/deca and that was 14yrs ago!!! I put on about 25lbs which no single compound will give you! And why the h*ll should test be run higher than deca and at 400-500/wk?? I've ran it the same and never had deca dick or any other sides and deca being one of the safest steroids around and dbol being hard on the liver is soooo overrated! And since i put on 25lbs at 250/wk do you think that i would have put on 35-40lbs with the extra 150-200mg....come on! The body produces an average of 10mg test/day, so 250/wk would be more than enough to get great gains! Now...i have done test,fina,deca,halo,dbol,eq,winny, and some i can't remember so none of what i said is repeating what others say, so i know what the h#ll i'm talking about.

**AandF6969** · 03-10-2005, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Ntpadude

You grow a lot when on, you can keep some afterwards but eventually it all goes away and even for a period of time in post cycle - you think you are a hardgainer now??? It gets real hard to gain like you wont believe after a cycle, if not a fight to keep from shrinking down some. Everyone reacts differently but majority will loose looose loose after a cycle and sometimes shrink down to smaller then before when doing 1 cycle only/ever because you often leave a cycle with lower testosterone production then before. If you are planning to do several cycles for a few years into the future then thats different.

If diet and training stay in check there is no reason someone shouldn't be able to keep at least 70% of their gains permanently...

Originally Posted by righton

And since i put on 25lbs at 250/wk do you think that i would have put on 35-40lbs with the extra 150-200mg....come on! The body produces an average of 10mg test/day, so 250/wk would be more than enough to get great gains!

Some people need higher doses to get effects, also if injecting 250mg/week of test enanthate , there is only 172mg of actual testosterone ... about 2 1/2 times natural production, not a whole lot.

**righton** · 03-10-2005, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by AandF6969

If diet and training stay in check there is no reason someone shouldn't be able to keep at least 70% of their gains permanently...

Some people need higher doses to get effects, also if injecting 250mg/week of test enanthate, there is only 172mg of actual testosterone... about 2 1/2 times natural production, not a whole lot.

Anything over the baseline is a bonus. 2 1/2 times is a lot more than baseline.

**Cygnus** · 03-10-2005, 12:38 PM

What my goal is.....I would say to add bout 20-25 lbs and keep it. I just want to add some bulk/mass. Is trying to keep the gains really that hard? I figured with a regular workout schedule and a good diet I would be able to maintain it. Guess I could be wrong. And yes, doing what I do for a living makes me a little nervous. I have been considering this for several years but never went forward with it. I had no idea that when I finally decided to go for it it would be such a pain to get into. I understand why, but WOW.

One meore thing, I have seen Deca and Dekka any reason? Maybe different manuf? Just a question.

Thx all for input. I read every one of em.

**thewallop** · 03-10-2005, 02:14 PM

my friends on 400 mg test cyp ew with 400 mg npp ew and hes gained allot! and npp doesnt stay in ur system for that long but if ur worried about getting buster or tested , try using test prop and anavar maby. both compounds are undetactable after 3 weeks . wat do the vets or experienced users think about prop / var ?

**Mesomorphyl** · 03-10-2005, 02:17 PM

How about setting a good example to the inmates... They will know he is doing something illegal. It goes to show you, if you have a badge it is ok to break the law or rules that everyone else has to follow.

**Cygnus** · 03-10-2005, 03:22 PM

and how well we all follow those rules eh? You sound like some of these law makers. C'mon man it isnt as tho i'm selling crack. I'm not there to set an example. I'm there to do a job. Their example should have been givin years before I came into the pic. Like they give a s*** about my badge or me setting an example. LOL. Obviously you have never been in a prison riot. Which is good. I hope you never are. Some scary stuff. While adding 20-25 lbs isnt something thats going to save my life or make me untouchable, every bit helps. It cant hurt while you're somewhere down in the pile or, when ya got a 6' 5 350 lb dude tryin to slip his cuffs. Plus, I really want to do it for myself. As if I needed to explain it.

**Mesomorphyl** · 03-10-2005, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Cygnus

Plus, I really want to do it for myself. As if I needed to explain it.

There we go, it's ok... Now we just need to get you educated. Look around this board and use the search button just like you would if you were searching the web. It will be your friend, then once you have determined what path you want to take come back and post up your stats and cycle. You cannot drink deca by the way

**MrMondodondo** · 03-10-2005, 03:55 PM

Well some advice given.

Take the test and Dbol . Your 38 years old so your natural production is down anyway. Eat huge and train hard. Do your research on PCT and go with what works for you. I am not a huge fan of all the crazy PCT but do some to help the transition..

PLEASE don't flame me back. I am twice as old as most of you and have been doing this for 20 years. I have 3 kids and I still doink at least 4 times a week. So this is my opinion and that of most of the old timers I train with.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 03-10-2005, 05:31 PM

Try 500mgs of test per week for your first cycle. That should get you close to your goal of 25lbs...then do a proper post cycle recovery program, and start planning your next cycle. Your body may not be able to hold onto that 20-25lbs from your first cycle, and getting to that weight vs. holding onto it is a different story.

P.S. Most of the screws I met were pretty good dudes. Alot of them, actually. It's the tough-guys and knuckle heads who usually get attacked first in jail, from my experience.

**Cygnus** · 03-14-2005, 01:28 AM

Sounds like test is a good way to start. Seems to be different opinions on wether or not to use an addition to the first cycle. Just want to gain the muscle mass with as little water retention as possible and then of course to maintain it. So that was why I was asking about something in addition to the Test during the first bulk/mass cycle. Again, thx to all for the input.

and yes Hooker, its usually the "knuckle heads" that get the problems. I've met some decent people on both sides of the bars. Then again, there are "knuckle heads" on both sides of the bars as well.