is this only me or are people in denial?

***the original jason*** · 04-01-2002, 09:21 PM

Ok I have been thinking about this for ages on and off and spoke to alot of people about it so I want to throw it in here.

I read so many places and threads yeah steroids make me feel great and things like roid rage " you are only more angry if oyu are normally an angry person" and many more comments like that.

Well for me and I am just talkin about myself here and I like to be honest cos I hate all them giving it the large one im charlie big potatoe people who big up themselves all the time.

Juice does not make me feel better about myself as a person or it doesnt improve my emotional life, state of mind, peace of mind, it doesnt give me a feeling of well being in fact from the minute I start a cycle I feel fucked I get more crazy thoughts in my mind, my peace of mind is gone I mean gone, im no longer the calm person I sometimes can be, I fuck up my relationship for no apparent reason, I chase sex with other women to satisfy the lust, I make irrational decisions and thats just some of the things.
I start to feel paranoid about losing hair and getting physical problems also I do get many physical problems at times

Ok I like to get bigger an attain my goals thats what we are all about right but im not into lieing and saying yeah it makes me feel real great and improves many things it doesnt.

I am not in any way saying dont do it cos I will still do it I just want to know if other people feel the same.

I call steroids "character defect enhancers" we all have character traits good and bad so no one can say they dont have any character defects and to me juice really enhances the defects in my own character. It brings out the worst in me in all ways, I am tying to start a logical disccusion anyone with useless comments will be deleted

.

I am lucky to have had alot of experience due to my past looking into myself and learning about how to deal with emotions and feelings, and looking into how humans react and how feelings are developed and how and why and so on.

I will finish with many people lie to themselves to justify their own behavoiur its similar to addiction, but easier to justify.

Hope to get some educated replies

peace
Jason

**Iron horse** · 04-01-2002, 09:30 PM

Holy shit.. I couldn't agree more!! this is what I've actualy been trying to say when I make reply's about questions about agression and roid rage or emotions on juice. You found the words before I did, and definitely made me realise those things. I think not all guys will agree with you or "us" but I can definitly relate.

It's a very demanding lifestyle and a list as long as a book for things to worry about. for me it's mostly about hair and acne, but there's guys that are really prone to gyno which much suck even more. I get up even eariler to cram down a huge shake and gotta concentrate to make sure Im eating and training properly 24/7.

*JMO

thanks for showing your opinion on this bro!

**RON** · 04-01-2002, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by The Original Jason
I am tying to start a logical disccusion anyone with useless comments will be deleted

No comment

I have been thinking about this a lot lately also. I know most of you guys are naturally aggressive. For me Im a mellow person. It takes a lot to set me off. So a little aggression occasionally for me is a good thing. I do notice a lack of patients especially with my children but it is definitely controllable.

The worst thing IMO is the sneaking around and lying. It makes me feel guilty and I know that is not healthy.

**KeyMastur** · 04-01-2002, 10:08 PM

I guess it also has to do with your outlook on life. For me, I know I'm going to die someday - probably sooner than regularly scheduled. Knowing that helps me to realize a few things too - I don't care. True, I don't feel right about the sneaking around, shooting needles in my room while the parents are downstairs whole bit, but, if it'll make me bigger / faster / stronger - so be it. There are certain risks you have to take and certain consequences that come along with it - some good, some bad. I'm willing to not look towards the bad things, cause for me, I have a positive outlook on life. I have a great job, I have direction, I'm still young. I'm not worried about hair loss - if I'm gonna lose it, which probably won't happen, it's gonna happen. Sure there are some things you can control it with, but genetics has a lot to do with it as well. My hair won't be all gone, but merely thinning like my grandfather's is at this moment. I don't have any regrets in my life when I deal with the gear. I don't let my attitude get in the way - or at least I try not too. Yes, I do notice myself being short-tempered more often, but then again, I can be short-tempered when I'm not on the gear. It all depends on my surrounding environment.

**Canes4Ever** · 04-01-2002, 10:58 PM

Hopefully Jason, even though I am not an AS user at the moment, I am looking into trying them later this year.

AS and their inherint side effects are the price you must pay for achieveing those goals you want in

a) as a shortcut to moderate developement

or

b) as a necessary evil to achieve the highest levels of bodybuilding achievement

Choose your path and choose your evil.

Many on AR have chosen to do AS because they want to become the best bodybuilder they can, and with that come the dreaded side effects on of which seems to be what effects they seem to have on your psychological makeup. In taking them if you have to compromise your principles

i.e......

"Ok I like to get bigger an attain my goals thats what we are all about right but im not into lieing and saying yeah it makes me feel real great and improves many things it doesnt"

then you need to come to grips with it, or it can be extremely bad for you psycologiacally and I think this then leads to your agression and anger towards others, because you feel a bit guilty and paranoid inside.

Jason, brother you may have some deep soul-searching to do sir, and it's nothing anyone else can do for you. You need to dig deep and take some time for yourself, ask yourself if you think it is worth it in the big picture; if it is, you will continue. If you allow this to continue it could end in either deep depression for you or lead you to take out your anger at this on someone you dearly love or would not have hurt. It doesn't have to be physical hurt either, most people don't do physical damage to another when they are hurting inside, but rather take it out as mental cruelty to those they love the most, mainly as a

for help.

I wish I could help you more my brother, think hard and long, and search for the positive answer that will set you mind free.

**Tapout** · 04-01-2002, 11:16 PM

wow what a post---- when im on i do feel better about myself and more confident but my over all health dont feel as good. for me i feel the rage is controlable except when im on deca i get pissed and attitude with wife and get mad at my son quicker she notices the difference, when i calm down later i truely feel terrible and like a ass hole. my wife is great and beautiful and my son is the happiest and greatest little boy in the world and im blessed that they love me and they put up with the bull shit(which aint that often thank goodness)when im on test i want sex all the time and my wife and i fight because she does not have the sex(test) drive that i have when on.so im only doing 1- 8 week deca cycle per year for now on and probably 1- 12 week test cycle per year so my wife has 20 weeks of bull not 52. but i trule do believe juice does intensify your emotions and personality some for the good and some for the bad.

**androplex** · 04-01-2002, 11:34 PM

deleted for security reasons. sorry guys.

**THE JU-ICE** · 04-02-2002, 12:41 AM

I do believe that my bad traits are enhanced on the sauce. I've always been a hot head and when I'm on I tend to lose my temper prematurely. I have lost friends for months and hurt people mentally and physically. I DO NOT blame gear 100%, a lot of my demons come out on there own, but when I'm geared I tend to let them out more quickly. I'm so vein sometimes and maybe its just a self defense mechanism I developed. Sometimes trying to be the best I can be brings out the worst in me. I guess its double jeopardy.

***the original jason*** · 04-02-2002, 01:39 AM

canes great insight thanks for the reply, but im not saying im in emotional turmoil thanks I dont really want a councellor I just want some bros to be honest and tell me if they identify. If you dont then thats cool if oyu are in denial then dont post its easier lol.

The JU-ICE thanks for the reply I like anyone man enough to be honest, like I said earlier we all have defect of character like it or leave it its fact, and as I said at the start im just talkin about me but im sure it must apply to some others.

I juice for one simple reason to be bigger and stronger.

I am lucky in the fact I have been involved in something very special and been able to help people into recovery through my own experience in addiction, this work has given me great insight into how all this works I am very in touch with my feelings and how I work and what makes me tick I have spent the last 8 years looking at that, when u come from the streets and being a homeless junky for 8 years then u have to do some good soul searching just to know who u r.

This is a great thread so far I would really like it if other were to post your experience again whatever that may be lets try to keep this in tact I dont want cross feedback just sharing my story

peace

**lil jay** · 04-02-2002, 02:45 AM

i never have any physical sides when on juice(high blood pressure,gyno,hairloss,ect.)but i do have emotional problems i believe is because of juice(and my life style).some times i get depressed while on a cycle,i feel more stressed,and way more ANXIETY.
i never had these problems before my first cycle.now sometimes i get these feelings when i am off a cycle.it seems like the more cycles i get under my belt the more i get these feelings.maybe it has nothing to do with the juice,maybe just my lifestyle in general causes me to feel like this.if its not because of the juice ,it definately intensifies it.

**Socio** · 04-02-2002, 03:13 AM

ive never used AAS before , but i find this a very intresting post for non AAS users .... bump this and make it a sticky Jason

**Gas Man** · 04-02-2002, 03:35 AM

Well Having a side effect (Gyno) not to any major effect, and knowing that I now have predisposition (spelling?) to Gyno I still want to get some gear. I know that I'll probably have to have it cut out if it get any worse but I know that it has an effect on me psychologically. I think about it all of the time I cant decide if the pros out weigh the cons,, but in the end the pros always outweigh the cons. AS always effect me mentallyl and people that say AS have no effect on them, either have their sh@! together better than me or Maybe they don't think about the long term effects. As far as Sex goes how doesen't want more!! The more the....well the MORE!!! I have to get as much as possiabel and AS only makes it worse!! I feel sorry for my wife!! When I did my first cycle I would get with any girl that gave me the time of day!! the more the marrier!!

**Canes4Ever** · 04-02-2002, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by The Original Jason
canes great insight thanks for the reply, but im not saying im in emotional turmoil thanks I dont really want a councellor I just want some bros to be honest and tell me if they identify. If you dont then thats cool if oyu are in denial then dont post its easier lol.

Sorry bro, was just trying to help.

Next time I'll just be quiet.

**Viking** · 04-02-2002, 07:47 AM

I dfon't get rages, but while I'm on, I tend to ponder a lot more(I'm no grat speller) on things.
I get a bit more cranky, kinda like going around muttering all the time...
U have to excuse me if I don't make any sence.....just a doofy swede..

**9natural9** · 04-02-2002, 09:12 AM

Honestly for me, AS does raise the bar on my self-esteem level. It increases my confidence, my stature, and I actually become less of an asshole while I am on. I am dead serious, I become a happier person. Now, some can say that this is just a temporary band aid for underlying self-conscious needs I lack, which is probaly more or less true, but I could be so much worst off. I have concluded that I have a really good side to my personality and morality, but much like every single person and animal, I have a dark side as well. If I am on AS, or not, this dark side seems to take the better of me either way. I have weird thoughts all the time anyway. Therefore, I feel that AS can alter a persons thoughts, personality, ect. but if they are semi-fucked up already then it will either entensify the situation, or like in my case to a complete role reversal. This is just the way I see it...

And CANES, you know I got love for you, but AS is by far the easy road...your body works overtime and beyond to accomodate the AS therefore making it in theory a harder road....

***the original jason*** · 04-02-2002, 09:21 AM

Canes I will apologise in public dont take it the wrong way the last part of that was a general statement your insight is just as valuable to me as anyones I enjoyed ur post and commented on ur good insight, just that I wanted to make it clear I wasnlt really asking for advice cos I know I would have all the opinions under the sun in 5 mins just wondered how the other guys seen it so dont worry it wasnt meant to be a flame at all

peace

**timvds** · 04-02-2002, 09:23 AM

OJ-yeah i can relate alright. ive made a couple posts on why i actually feel better when coming off a cycle. i mean everyone else is talking about crashing post cycle, while in the meantime i feel quite better.

in the middle of a cycle i feel so anxious, my blood pressure is skyhigh. i lose my temper at the stupidest shit, mostly when it comes to people close to me. no, i dont kick holes in doors or stupid shit like that. most of the time its pure jealousy, a trait i wish i could control better. a trait that i usually CAN control off cycle.

as for the anxiety, i lose sleep sometimes. and when i do dream, you couldnt imagine some of the most fucked up things i can dream about. beating the hell out girlfriends, and for what you ask?? a jealous rage. catching them cheating, among other reasons.

yeah, the roid do make me feel better, every time i step on a scale and see ive gained 24 lbs. or when i look in the mirror and see new cuts and definition. I FEEL GREAT. when i add 20 more lbs to my bench i feel like a god. other than that, i feel sometimes im in a constant state of turmoil.

-my .02

***the original jason*** · 04-02-2002, 09:34 AM

thanks bro I am really not discussing roid rage it wasnt my intention I just wondered about general every day feeling and emotion, roid rage has been discussed many times and most people have opinions. One more thing when im juicing I hate everyone lol when I am in the gym I cant concentrate sometimes for my head thinking about killing the dick whos swinging the dumbells about and hes 120lb but he does arms every day or the guy going 100mph on the bike then 1 hrs weights but doesnt eat anything and wonders why he doesnt grow. LOL sometimes it is funny but I do identify with the crazy thoughts and yes something else I forgot to add is the 3-4 weeks post cycle I feel noticeably better every day im now at the 3 week point and I feel so much better than I did last week of my cycle thanks again for the posts

peace

**Core** · 04-02-2002, 09:59 AM

I just did my first cycle. I'm normally a very level headed calm guy. My feeling was, no way will it effect me. The first 2 weeks were no big deal but the 3rd. I felt like my emotions were on a roller coaster. I would feel great, then depressed, anxious and uneasy. I just couldnt settle down. My mind was going a mile a minute all the time. Totally not me.

**Canes4Ever** · 04-02-2002, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by 9natural9
And CANES, you know I got love for you, but AS is by far the easy road...your body works overtime and beyond to accomodate the AS therefore making it in theory a harder road....

Dude, I'm interested in this, explain a little more. I thought AS would make it easier, but you are saying it actually makes it harder?

I wonder if I am getting this all wrong?

**Canes4Ever** · 04-02-2002, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by The Original Jason
Canes I will apologise in public dont take it the wrong way the last part of that was a general statement your insight is just as valuable to me as anyones I enjoyed ur post and commented on ur good insight, just that I wanted to make it clear I wasnlt really asking for advice cos I know I would have all the opinions under the sun in 5 mins just wondered how the other guys seen it so dont worry it wasnt meant to be a flame at all

peace

Okay Jason, I was just hurt a bit bro. I was trying to help as I saw it, and thought you had dissed me. Thanks for the apology bro.

All is good

peace

**9natural9** · 04-02-2002, 10:36 AM

CANES, I compare it to a championship football, basketball, baseball, ect team. How hard is it to reach the top of your game? What does the road entail along the way, with all the trials and tribulations. Once you are at the top of your game, the hardest part begins....staying there.

AAS does increase the speed at which your gains are produced, but you must work your ass off to get the full effect, and even still work that much harder to keep them.

**Canes4Ever** · 04-02-2002, 10:39 AM

You know, this thread is scaring me from doing AS a bit.....wow, there is a lot more to AS than just injecting or popping a pill and watching your muscles grow.

**Canes4Ever** · 04-02-2002, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by 9natural9
CANES, I compare it to a championship football, basketball, baseball, ect team. How hard is it to reach the top of your game? What does the road entail along the way, with all the trials and tribulations. Once you are at the top of your game, the hardest part begins....staying there.

AAS does increase the speed at which your gains are produced, but you must work your ass off to get the full effect, and even still work that much harder to keep them.

As many of you guys are already aware of, I suffer from a panic and anxiety disorder. With what is being said in this thread about the enhancement of panic and paranoia while on AS, I am getting the idea I may just have to stay natural. I cannot afford the darker and more violent effects of AS to take over and maybe bring out a part of my personality I never wish to see.

Is this what you are talking about Jason & 9Natural?

**9natural9** · 04-02-2002, 11:38 AM

CANES, I am not necessarily subjecting it to anxiety, I am trying to get the understanding across that there really is more to it then just injecting, working out, and eating.

Many people battle internally, and mentally to stay sane. My post was just stating that I am pretty neurotic anyway, but when I am on AS, it calms me and makes me a more confident person. It DOES NOT by any means stop the crazy thought or anxiety, but I have got it STRONG in my head to deal with that setback and move forward with my goals.

As far as OJ, I know where he is coming from, but it is not my place to answer for him....he will surely post a reply

***the original jason*** · 04-02-2002, 11:48 AM

no i really didnt mention that there is no enhancement of panic for me or bringing out any dark side. U have to try to know cos individual emotions and character traits are so personal to each person. I am not in any way suggesting this is the same for everyone make up your own mind would be good from the outcome of this thread its just to help with this type of situation really it seems to be something people never look at and my motivation was all the posts saying how great they feel on aas and i never see anything other than roid rage about the other side of things

peace
jason

***Sicilian30*** · 04-02-2002, 12:12 PM

Jason, I perfectly see your point, and I think it is awesome that you can come here and express your feelings honestly, a good sign that you know your body well.
Personally I think it is the individual. I feel better when I am on gear. I mean I am alittle more aggressive, but not much. I notice I get alittle more aggitated with things, but again nothing that I can't handle.
I actually feel pretty good while I am on gear. I am able to push my body more, get stronger and actually see results which pump me up more. However I can relate with some of the sides of gear even the sides coming off the sause.
Not to sound like I am disagree with ya amigo, but personally I think it is one's whole mental attitude towards themselves and gear. I have a very positive outlook on life, I run a business I am very self motivated, and I like to see results from my motivation and hard work, not with doing gear but everything in life. Gear gives me that, even though some of the sides tend to be there, but when you weight out the sides of other things like stress and worring, they can cause the same type of effect, think about it.
When I get stressed at work, I turn into this monster. I snap at people, I get on this raging kicks.. and so forth.
Again in my opinion it is "a state of mind" kinda thing.
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you my friend, I understand where you are coming from, and yes, I have experienced what you have experienced, but one thing I have learned it is 99% mental, your mental attitude and projection is what makes you who you are, on gear and off gear.
Even though you may have these hormones pumpin your body, it is how you deal with it (again mental), is the key here.
Just wanted to put my .5 cent's werf...

***the original jason*** · 04-02-2002, 12:31 PM

bro thats a cool reply, how do you apply that to the fact that things get a whole lot better within weeks of stopping?? and the fact that I dont get all that shit when im not on cycle feel perfectly ok dont fuck up my relationship dont chase sex and so on ?? just wondering cos in my eyes those defects are underlying and the juice brings them out and then when its gone they subside again its not my whole time in life just while on cycle

peace

**androplex** · 04-02-2002, 01:24 PM

deleted for security reasons, sorry guys

**jersey juice** · 04-02-2002, 03:29 PM

I've said all along that test is what makes men men. It's what makes us competitive, aggressive, and irrational. Hormones! Next time your girlfriend/wife gets PMS think to yourself why she is crying one minute and throwing shit the next...HORMONES! Now you take a normal man, with normal emotions and add the most potent hormone in the male's make up to say triple-quadruple what it would be normally, well guess what your hormones are all outta whack. Everything is increased besides just your pumps. Even worse, when you come off & your estrogen levels haven't figured out that your test is no longer as high as it was...well my friend unless your using an anti-e like liquidex & especially with clomid your girl will be the one saying your a whiney bitch!! When I'm on it depends what day you catch me on cause some days I'll be cool and other days I'm a maniac, no denial here!

***Sicilian30*** · 04-02-2002, 04:56 PM

Jason I completely understand what you are talking about, bud, remember women go thru this hormonal inbalance all the time, well so do men too. That is basically all it is. I don't know how else to explain it, my friend, it is mental, you have to put believe in yourself, and realize what is happening to your body. Understanding is the first step to handling the problems with it. For example when I am on gear, I know I am goint to be alittle more aggressive than usual, therefore, I try to stay away from things that stress me and make me wound up, especailly when I am on gear.
In other words, I guess it takes knowing your body and how you react to things, that of course takes age and experience.

**D3m3nt3d** · 04-02-2002, 05:25 PM

I personally have a bad temper anyway...but im not the type of guy to just jump on someone and abuse them physically...but on juice my temper does start to flare a little faster but i tell myself its the steroids to calm down..even if it isn't them..but besides that i never suffered from depression so far, i tend to feel more positive about myself because i know i look better.

**McBain** · 04-02-2002, 07:05 PM

To those of you who are saying that it brings out your darker side or amplifies your characterstics (good or bad) do you have this happen when drinking too because for me the shit you guys are talking about like more aggressive, sometimes get depressed, paranoid, jealous and that shit sometimes happens to me when I get plastered. I don't really get plastered very often so maybe its gone away with age because it has only happened a couple times in the last couple years but just curious if this same thing (anxiety, jealousy, depression) sometimes happens when you guys are real drunk too.

**Fif the Great** · 04-02-2002, 08:00 PM

I've never done AS, but I have enough now to do my cycle. To be honest, I'm scared as hell to take it. I'm in college, pursuing my goals, and trying to attain a rewarding career. I want to take a cycle, I want to have better self esteem, I want to see a better "me" in the mirror. But I don't want to risk everything I've worked for so far in life for my pride. If I get on gear, will it mess up my ability to concentrate in class, will it overshadow my study habits, will it make relationships I've cultivated with important people suffer? These are questions I think everyone should ask themselves before they even think about buying one bottle of Deca or whatever. To me, steroids is a big step in anyone's life. It truly has life-altering results, the rewards are paired with the consquences. I'm still asking myself those questions, and doing some soul searching. I honestly don't know if I can handle the upheaval in emotions that gear throws at you. Great post, OJ, it makes newbies like me really think about things before we stick pins in our ass.

**Nathan** · 04-02-2002, 08:18 PM

For me it goes both ways. Sometimes it makes me feel pretty good, but at others I wanna kill myself. The bloating alone makes me wish I was dead.

**jony1977** · 04-02-2002, 09:14 PM

Well, I am pretty new in this subject, but I must say that I do agree with the things that are said here. I have started my first real cycle a few week ago and I must say that I do feel kind of strange. After my first shot I felt like a real junkie, and I must say that I did not liked that feeling one bit, also hiding syringes and needles all over the house is not something that I enjoy, making sure all the time that I don´t forgett something over the table so my parents find it. I also think about side efects, the only one that real bothers me is gyno, although I have Nolvadex on hand and Clomid, I always think: "If I get some.....will I realized about it on time?". I was in a friends house two days ago and his gildfriend said..." Geee, you look bigger....like bloated or something" , so my friend replied as a joke...."well...he must be on roids"...I laugh of course but I did not feel well on the inside.
I feel a little paranoic also, like if everyone is being a little too agressive to me...but all of this is not something that can not be handled.

I heared something in a movie that keeps on coming on mi mind, it was something like this...

"...If you want the ultimate.....you have to pay the ultimate price"

***the original jason*** · 04-02-2002, 09:41 PM

yeah this did turn into a great post eh, thanks for everyones replies.

Gains thanks bro I totally see where you are coming from, I agree that for me my gains are slowed down due to my fucked up head during cycle. For me I have had an eating disorder and was fat for many years i mean really fat, and then I went to being really lean in about 1 yr but with no muscle hence finding the juice scene but the reason it fucks me up is still feel fat all the time I mean being fat for 20 years of ur life puts some pretty mad messages in ur head well it did to me. So I have that to deal with, for me and I am gonna be totally honest juice is a means to fix my outside cos i think it will make me feel better inside even though years of practice and alot of study I know that peace of mind is an inside job it wont come and no matter how big I get I will never be happy 250@8% or 170@15% it doesnt matter if you dont have peace of mind you will never be satisfied. Even though I am sure that is 100% fact despite people will argue I still chase the insanity of having a better body onthe outside will make me feel better on the inside. Wheres TNT?? I would like to hear your thoughts bro

peace
jason

**Tapout** · 04-03-2002, 12:57 AM

another side that im not sure anyone mentioned is the addiction feeling. it is not a physical i need a shot and will car jack some one for it. it is the getting big,getting noticed,feeling big and then coming off and dropping some water weight and people asking you if you stopped training cause you dropped some size.
it is very mentally addictive im 244 now so i dont worry about the little drops but years ago i did and that planned 12 weeks off turned into 6 weeks off because of feeling smaller. it took me years to get a grip on that. and when you think i'll only do 1 or 2 cycles it turns into 10.

**bigkev** · 04-03-2002, 01:16 AM

i am right there with you jase. being big is my identity. most people run to a bottle or some other type of recreational drug when they feel out of it or down. i take another cc and go to the gym. it helps me mentally in a big way, but externally it tends to screw things up. relationships go to shit, everything revolves around my being big, and hence, my aas'. in knowing this will happen i guess that makes me a selfish person, but, once again, anything for the cause. i have come to embrace the bad attitude, the aggression, etc... when all around me seems to go wrong and i feel like everyone is against me, i look inside myself and think," i am the meanest MOFO that i know, i dont need anyone in my life but me. so fuck everyone, there isnt one thing anyone can do about me." thats not what i am feeling at all most of the time, but...

this is just the negative side of it. there is a huge positive side. but does it out weigh the negative? i dont know, and i guess i dont really care.

once you start taking aas, you are entering an entirely new realm. nothing about your training, diet, or, imo, life, will be the same. and if you have never used aas, you really cant relate at all.

***the original jason*** · 04-03-2002, 01:26 AM

thanks BK yeah I am one loner for sure I left home at 15 and have lived alone for 15 years in and out of prison and stuff so I am one of them fuck everyone type of people and I just want to take care of me no matter what and I cant even now allow anyone else to help cos im so fuking twisted from the past its not a totally bad thing but it affects some things especially relationships.

Tapout I here ya I spent the last 15 years around addiction in one way or another and I know totally what you are saying I wrote a little artice on it for the next newsletter not sure when it will be published just a few insights

peace