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  1. #1
    The Baron's Avatar
    The Baron is offline Fourth Koala of the Apocalypse
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    Mar 2002

    Again, my proposed next cycle.

    Okay... I previously posted my proposed next cycle in the form of a table, but even though it lined up nicely in the COMPOSE window, the final post didn't display right. The columns did not line up and it was very difficult to understand. I will simply write it out here, for your critique. Here is the original post in its entirety but with the cycle written out en paragraph instead of tabulated.

    I am 46 years young, currently around 215 at 5'7" and maybe 14% BF and have trained for 6 years now. This will be my 3rd cycle. Cycle 1 was a fiasco / learning experience... 250-500mg/week sust for 8 weeks and 50mg/day of dbol for weeks 1-4. Sucked but I learned a lot from it. Second cycle was 10 weeks of sust @ 500mg/week stacked with 400mg deca /week with anadrol and dbol jump start and a proper pct. The last 3 weeks I substituted enanth for the sust. Results were okay-ish. (I was already pretty big from training naturally) Also did a month-on/month-off/month-on cycle of M1T, 20mg/day with mediocre but detectable end results but I don't really count that as a proper cycle.

    I learned that I do not tolerate anadrol well, that sust tends to give me more sides than enanth, I learned that I recover well for my age and that I don't start to carry serious water until week 5 or so, even when jumping with orals. I learned that I need help to avoid catabolism post-cycle unless I want to keep piling on the calories for a few more weeks and carry the extra fat for a while. I learned that my nuts shrink badly toward the end of a 10 week cycle. I learned that M1T makes me big as a house with temporary gains but my training suffers, and the gains don't keep well. I gain less with deca than most users but the gains seem to last well for me. I tolerate test well and could go with higher doses in the future but right now I will be paying too much for my gear to experiment with mega-doses. Anyway, I have been wanting to try a longer cycle at moderate doses, possibly combining a bulking and a cutting phase together. The cycle below reflects those musings and goals.

    I have not yet used hcg or clen . I have read on the "old school" method of 3 injections E5D of 5000iu hcg, and also accounts of using small doses continuously for several weeks, and I think I would prefer the latter. At any rate, I know that for anything beyond 10 weeks I will need hcg. The clen I will reduce or stop if sides become intolerable.

    How does this look?

    CYP weeks 1-16, 500mg/week
    DECA weeks 1-10 400mg/week
    WINNY weeks 11-16 50mg ED
    NOLVA weeks 5-15 10mg ED
    ANASTROZOLE weeks 14-18 .25mg ED
    HCG 500iu/week, 2x/week injections, weeks 9-18
    CLO weels 19-22 300mg day 1, 100mg days 2-7, 50mg ED to end
    CLEN weeks 19-20, weeks 23-24, and weeks 27-28 tapering up and back down, max 120mcg/day


    * Might jumpstart with 400mg/day transdermal test cream weeks 1-4. I will not be using an oral jumpstart.

    (1) drink the winny? To hell with ED injections!

    (2) dilute the hcg for more practical low-dose application, i.e. a handier volume for measuring and injecting. 1 5000iu kit mixed with 19cc acqueous B12 for 250iu/ml concentration. 2 1/2cc inj per week of 250iu, each. Also one extra 5000iu kit standing by in case I feel the need for a little extra help for the nertz before clomid therapy.

    (3) clomid 300mg day 1, 100mg/day for 1 week, 50mg/day to end, 28 days total

    (4) Clen... taper up from 40mcg to a max of 120mcg/day in 20mcg steps as sides allow. Taper down in 40mcg steps. supplement with 5g/day taurine and plenty of bananas or oranges for potassium. Might stack with T-3.

    I am hoping to add at least 10 lbs of "kept" muscle and to reduce BF to 10-11% by the end of week 28. Theoretically and mathematically a 10 lb lean mass increase and a BF%age decrease from 14% to 10% would have me right back at 215 at the end, but with markedly better body composition and appearance. Not interested in getting shreddy right now... a couple of visible veins here and there will suffice. I am probably looking at a peak bodyweight of 230 or maybe 235 at about week 11 so the cutting phase looks do-able with the clen.

    Dietary goals will be high surplus of protein and total calories weeks 3-10, near maintenance weeks 11-16, slight caloric deficit weeks 19-22, hard cutting diet weeks 23-28.

    Week 29+, Show off body, take "after" pics for the board,score lotsa young (or rich) chicks for a few weeks and then do it again, substituting eq for deca and fina for winny.

    So anybody have any opinions on the possible T-3 dosing? Or on jumpstarting with test cream? Possibly supplementing with the cream weeks 17-18 as a bridge to pct? Should I substitute anastrozole for the liquidex, since I can get that cheap? Is it advisable to add 75mg/ED of fina for weeks 1-4? Are my goals too ambitious? When I finish this cycle, will I finally be a real "juice monkey"?

  2. #2
    Danbrooks2k's Avatar
    Danbrooks2k is offline Member
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    Mar 2005
    and I thought I was hardcore... sheesh...

    yeah you have done your homework... but...

    at 46 dosent winnie kill your joints? or are they still cool from the decca...

    and I think you are screaming out for some tren but just havent realized how bad your body really wants it...LOL

    no man you dont need any advice from me, you have a strategy and it looks well laid out... good job

  3. #3
    XxElitexX's Avatar
    XxElitexX is offline Senior Member
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    Oct 2004
    why start the nolva at wk 5?

  4. #4
    The Baron's Avatar
    The Baron is offline Fourth Koala of the Apocalypse
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    Mar 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by XxElitexX
    why start the nolva at wk 5?
    I don't think I need it before then. I thought of starting at week 6 unless I get itchy nips or lots of bloating. Not using an oral jumpstart, and I don't carry water too bad anyway.

  5. #5
    Consistency's Avatar
    Consistency is offline Extraordinarily Exorbitant
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    Oct 2003
    run the winny from week 14-19 and start pct 3 weeks after last cyp shot. And you might wanna continue the deca at a low dose around 200mg a week for joint support

  6. #6
    The Baron's Avatar
    The Baron is offline Fourth Koala of the Apocalypse
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    Mar 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Consistency
    run the winny from week 14-19 and start pct 3 weeks after last cyp shot. And you might wanna continue the deca at a low dose around 200mg a week for joint support
    Oh yeah, of course! No reason to stop the winny when I stop the cyp... short half life and all. Yeah I'll move the winny back as per your suggestion. I hadn't considered the joint issue that you and Danbrook brought up. My deca will be very expensive and it would mean buying another jug... but I will keep it in mind. Any other alternative suggestions for the deca? Maybe some dbol or would that be a bad idea alongside the winny? I think I can hang without it cause I have seldom had any joint problems, I train carefully with good form etc. Maybe start on glucosamine and chondroitin now? cycle will start in about a week. I am using a clinic, and I gotta get my blood sucked Monday and then wait for my gear.

  7. #7
    TheMudMan's Avatar
    TheMudMan is offline Retired~ AR-Hall of Famer
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    Apr 2003
    run the Nolva and l-dex from week 1 no matter if you are gyno prone or not...... The deca even stoped at week 10 should still help keep your joints lubed till the end or close to the end.......... you can also run some joint supps to help but start them at minimum at the start of the cycle.

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