sust 250 does not have to be shot eod

[mkrulic]

I keep reading on this board claims that sust has to be shot eod because of the propionate ester in the blend. The propionate accounts for less than 12% of the shot. The typical break down of the esters is this:

testosterone deconate 100mg
testosterone isocaporate 60mg
testosterone phenopropionate(sp?) 60mg
testosterone propionate 30mg

There are other blends but this is the one most common.
The prop accounts for less than 12%. At this point it's half gone. Even if it was completely gone I'd like to meet the guy who could tell the difference between a 220mg shot and a 250mg shot. And how does shooting eod keep the levels "level"? If anything they would be increasing.

[HeAtMaN05]

If you are such an expert then why are you even posting on this board?? It is a proven fact that for best results it needs to be shot EOD....I personally have tried it both ways and had better gains and less sides when shooting EOD...

[marcanes29]

ok then let me ask u this I am about to start my cycle and I really only wanted to take the sust twice a week is that cool and how many mg should be taken in each shot and what side effects will I see

[mkrulic]

not claiming to be an expert and I don't mean to sound arrogant. I just don't understand the logic. Is more better? Sure up to a given point. You will eventually hit a saturation point. The thread is really aimed at debunking the myth that sust HAS to be shot eod at a MINIMUM to keep blood levels "level".

[HeavyHitter]

I keep reading on this board claims that sust has to be shot eod because of the propionate ester in the blend. The propionate accounts for less than 12% of the shot. The typical break down of the esters is this:

testosterone deconate 100mg
testosterone isocaporate 60mg
testosterone phenopropionate(sp?) 60mg
testosterone propionate 30mg

There are other blends but this is the one most common.
The prop accounts for less than 12%. At this point it's half gone. Even if it was completely gone I'd like to meet the guy who could tell the difference between a 220mg shot and a 250mg shot. And how does shooting eod keep the levels "level"? If anything they would be increasing.

Man... i was hoping you had a better argument then that!!! Ive shot 500mg a week mon thurs of sus and ended up with great results and a leaky knipple of gyno formation!! It will still work bro, but the sides are twice as bad from the non stable levels!!

[mkrulic]

ok then let me ask u this I am about to start my cycle and I really only wanted to take the sust twice a week is that cool and how many mg should be taken in each shot and what side effects will I see

Twice a week is fine. You would see better results with 3 times a week, better still w/ 4, etc...
But if you don't want to stick yourself more than twice a week for whatever reason you will not notice any ill effects because of the prop ester.

[HeAtMaN05]

You have been around the forums a while, you should know that these threads have been all over the place and diff people have diff ideas...most you will see state that EOD is the way....however I myself have done shots twice a week and made good gains but I liked it much better with splittin it EOD

[mkrulic]

Man... i was hoping you had a better argument then that!!! Ive shot 500mg a week mon thurs of sus and ended up with great results and a leaky knipple of gyno formation!! It will still work bro, but the sides are twice as bad from the non stable levels!!

gyno is a result from too much test. Adding more test will not solve the problem.

[HeAtMaN05]

Man... i was hoping you had a better argument then that!!! Ive shot 500mg a week mon thurs of sus and ended up with great results and a leaky knipple of gyno formation!! It will still work bro, but the sides are twice as bad from the non stable levels!!

Listen to the man...same crap happened to me!....if u like leaky nipples then twice a week is the way to go!

[mkrulic]

You have been around the forums a while, you should know that these threads have been all over the place and diff people have diff ideas...most you will see state that EOD is the way....however I myself have done shots twice a week and made good gains but I liked it much better with splittin it EOD

No, most people say shoot on the half life. This is true if you're shooting one ester. But in the case of a blend in which the shortest half life is an ester that accounts for less than 12% of the blend it's not necessary. As far as gyno, adding more test will not solve the problem.

[HeAtMaN05]

Who said anything about adding more Test?

[mkrulic]

Listen to the man...same crap happened to me!....if u like leaky nipples then twice a week is the way to go!

I thought this implied if you don't like leaky nipples shoot more often.

[t.o]

I totally agree with mkrulic.

It is a proven fact that for best results it needs to be shot EOD....

Never seen any facts , everything is based on pesonal experiance.
I shoot sust 2x a week. Works fine by me.
As far as gyno,or any bload just use proviron or nolva if this is a major problem.

just my 2cc

[1Leader]

Just because somepeople get gyno does not mean thats true for everyone.
Everybody reacts different,sides will be diff from one to another.Gotta try for yourself.

[Consistency]

shooting prop twice a week will not keep blood levels stable... its a proven fact... take it for what is worth.

[mkrulic]

shooting prop twice a week will not keep blood levels stable... its a proven fact... take it for what is worth.

that's true if you're shooting straight testosterone propionate . But prop makes up such a small percentage of a sust shot that it really doesn't need to be shot eod. I really don't think anyone could tell the difference between 220 mg of test and 250mg.

[juiceinthehood]

shooting prop twice a week will not keep blood levels stable... its a proven fact... take it for what is worth.

NUUF SAID

[Hazard]

that's true if you're shooting straight testosterone propionate. But prop makes up such a small percentage of a sust shot that it really doesn't need to be shot eod. I really don't think anyone could tell the difference between 220 mg of test and 250mg.

the point is... is that the prop is present in the blend..... even tho it's such a small amount - it's still there affecting your blood levels.....

try this.... do a 10 week experiment.... shoot the same ammount of prop and just prop alone... no other esthers.... twice a week...... and tell me what sides you see.....

if you aren't going to shoot the sust EOD then shoot it twice a week and shoot prop on your non sus days.....

[Hazard]

Oh and if you supposedly can't even notice the prop... then why run sus!? Why not just run a long esther?

[HeavyHitter]

gyno is a result from too much test. Adding more test will not solve the problem.

can somebody tell me what he is talkin about here... sorry bro, i dont understand your point since i made no reference to that comment!!

[HeavyHitter]

Man... i was hoping you had a better argument then that!!! Ive shot 500mg a week mon thurs of sus and ended up with great results and a leaky knipple of gyno formation!! It will still work bro, but the sides are twice as bad from the non stable levels!!

and by the way, i wasnt bashing you for your post, i was just hoping you had some new up-to-date info on sus blood levels.... i was actually rootin for ya to prove me and everbody wrong!! Sus was great and i would love to do it twice a week w/ no worries of sides...

[MuscleQuest]

i did sust 2x's a week and could feed a room full of babies with the crap leakin out of my nips. would never do sust again unless i could shoot it everyday. i am doing prop ed now and loving it. i prefer short esters but some just can't handle the ed injections. my opinion if ya can't handle the shots to do your gear properly you shouldn't be on. i like the suggestion of shooting prop in between sust shots. good idea. even if it's only a little bit it keeps your levels stable. i know i was a grouchy bugga when on sust

[Consistency]

I really don't think anyone could tell the difference between 220 mg of test and 250mg.

Yeah you might not notice it over 1 week but if your doing a 12 week cycle thats 360mg of test, which is a lot when the average production is between 40-70mg a week.

[AandF6969]

Consistency knows whats up. Of course you can shoot Sustanon 2x per week, hell, you can shoot it 2x per month if you're so inclined... BUT... Scientifically speaking, yes, optimal blood levels are achieved with EOD injections. Take it for what it's worth.

[Danbrooks2k]

funny I have shot it like i would any other testosterone in the past ( I didnt know what I know now ) and I still gained very well... but I admit I had some roller coaster days, and night sweats.... and one day I was benching 315 6 reps forn 6sets... and the next day I was breathing heavy doing 135 for reps....

I still grew despite my dumb ass... thats why I love sust so much... of course now I am actually using it properly for the first time, and getting ready to end my cycle using it EOD for 8 weeks with Tren @75mg EOD as well... and I am considering throwing in some winstrol for the last 6....

[Thegr8One]

hell i have heard of ppl shooting it ed and claiming it was awesome

[mkrulic]

Man... i was hoping you had a better argument then that!!! Ive shot 500mg a week mon thurs of sus and ended up with great results and a leaky knipple of gyno formation!! It will still work bro, but the sides are twice as bad from the non stable levels!!

here you said you got leaky nipples from "500mg a week mon thurs of sus" [too little sust]. So the argument I assumed you were making was that if you had taken more shots i.e. eod then it wouldn't have happened. adding test will not end or treat the formation of gyno.

[mkrulic]

Oh and if you supposedly can't even notice the prop... then why run sus!? Why not just run a long esther?

Sust is much more than the prop. the heart of sust is the deconate. I also feel that multiple esters is the only way to got. you don't run the sust cause of the 30mg's of prop. when I make sust I don't even add the prop unless I have it at 100mg.

[Danbrooks2k]

yup I used to do bachlorette and birthday parties with a guy named Tony who missed his pro debut by one freaking spot... #13 out of the top 12... but yup he was doing 1cc of mexican supertest 250 every day for about 12 weeks along with winsrtol, halotestin , anavar and ****ing LASIX....

for about a week this guy had the most impressive physiqe I had ever seen, think of Lee preists overall build and size... with frank zane and mike metzer's definition and vascularity....

he was ****ing sick to look at, but he couldnt quite hold it together for finals and got a little flat looking... but when he got back and ate crap for a week... OMFG he looked even better... and super swole from carb loading.... that is for about another week until he became a fat bloated suicidal coke addicted pig....

fellas that BB, is a rough ****ing sport, and it aint for me...

yeah back to topic, sust really gets bagged on alot but its ****ing awesome results speak for them selves... I think EOD is a good rule of thumb but can really depent on the user...

[sp9]

Interesting thread. mkrulic, why don't you run the numbers over a 4 week period shooting eod or twice a week based on half life and active life of each ester to guestimate the difference in levels? I have done it before for a single ester but never for multiple esters. I hate frequent injections so I stick with enan and eq twice a week. Supposidley the more frequent you inject the better even for long esters.

I also agree that the more levels swing the more sides I see (acne). Never had a gyno problem but I assume levels that fluctuate constantly would raise the risk of that side effect as well.

No calculations on levels is going to be exact because of the uncontrolable variables.

We are all here experimenting on ourselves and we all react differently. Over time we learn from each other how to minimize sides by learning from others mistakes or tests. This is the main benefit of the board, sharing personal experiences.

This is an interesting thread:

http://www.intense-training.com/foru...ight=half+life

[mkrulic]

Here is my point and I think I'll leave it at this, the exponential decay of the four esters by the forth day will not have decreased to a significant level.
here is the break down
formula for decay:
mg*2^(-day/half life)
Propionate 2 days
Phenylpropionate 4.5 days
Isocaproate 9 days
Decanoate 15 days

putting it all together:
30*2^(-4/2)

ans = 7.5000 prop

60*2^(-4/4.5)

ans = 32.4018 phenprop

60*2^(-4/9)

ans = 44.0920 isocap

100*2^(-4/15)

ans = 83.1238 deconate

total concentration on the forth day = 7.5000 + 32.4018 + 44.0920 + 83.1238

ans =

167.1176

difference from first to fourth is
250-167.1176

ans =

82.8824
so there was an 83mg drop. Let's look at every third day:
30*2^(-3/2)

ans = 10.6066

>> 60*2^(-3/4.5)

ans = 37.7976

>>60*2^(-3/9)

ans = 47.6220

>> 100*2^(-3/15)

ans = 87.0551

>> 87.0551 + 47.6220+ 37.7976+10.6066

ans = 183.0813

difference between 3rd and 4th
15.9637mg
on the second day:

30*2^(-2/2)

ans = 15

>> 60*2^(-2/4.5)

ans = 44.0920

>> 60*2^(-2/9)

ans = 51.4346

>> 100*2^(-2/15)

ans = 91.1722

>> 15+ 44.0920+51.4346+91.1722

ans = 201.6988

difference between the forth and second day:
201.6988 - 167.1176 = 34.5812

again I don't think anyone will notice a 35mg drop.

[mkrulic]

Interesting thread. mkrulic, why don't you run the numbers over a 4 week period shooting eod or twice a week based on half life and active life of each ester to guestimate the difference in levels? I have done it before for a single ester but never for multiple esters. I hate frequent injections so I stick with enan and eq twice a week. Supposidley the more frequent you inject the better even for long esters.

I also agree that the more levels swing the more sides I see (acne). Never had a gyno problem but I assume levels that fluctuate constantly would raise the risk of that side effect as well.

No calculations on levels is going to be exact because of the uncontrolable variables.

We are all here experimenting on ourselves and we all react differently. Over time we learn from each other how to minimize sides by learning from others mistakes or tests. This is the main benefit of the board, sharing personal experiences.

This is an interesting thread:

http://www.intense-training.com/foru...ight=half+life

I do that but it is going to take considerable more math. I think I'll post it as a graph and let people judge for themselves. thatnks for the reply.

[AAS@HH]

Man... i was hoping you had a better argument then that!!! Ive shot 500mg a week mon thurs of sus and ended up with great results and a leaky knipple of gyno formation!! It will still work bro, but the sides are twice as bad from the non stable levels!!

IMPORTANT question!
Did you guys use Nolvaldex through out, when you had the sides?
curious. (Not arguing about the eod.)