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03-14-2005, 11:41 AM #1Anabolic Member
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sust 250 does not have to be shot eod
I keep reading on this board claims that sust has to be shot eod because of the propionate ester in the blend. The propionate accounts for less than 12% of the shot. The typical break down of the esters is this:
testosterone deconate 100mg
testosterone isocaporate 60mg
testosterone phenopropionate(sp?) 60mg
testosterone propionate 30mg
There are other blends but this is the one most common.
The prop accounts for less than 12%. At this point it's half gone. Even if it was completely gone I'd like to meet the guy who could tell the difference between a 220mg shot and a 250mg shot. And how does shooting eod keep the levels "level"? If anything they would be increasing.
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03-14-2005, 11:44 AM #2
If you are such an expert then why are you even posting on this board?? It is a proven fact that for best results it needs to be shot EOD....I personally have tried it both ways and had better gains and less sides when shooting EOD...
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03-14-2005, 11:47 AM #3Junior Member
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ok then let me ask u this I am about to start my cycle and I really only wanted to take the sust twice a week is that cool and how many mg should be taken in each shot and what side effects will I see
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03-14-2005, 11:49 AM #4Anabolic Member
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not claiming to be an expert and I don't mean to sound arrogant. I just don't understand the logic. Is more better? Sure up to a given point. You will eventually hit a saturation point. The thread is really aimed at debunking the myth that sust HAS to be shot eod at a MINIMUM to keep blood levels "level".
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03-14-2005, 11:52 AM #5Originally Posted by mkrulic
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03-14-2005, 11:52 AM #6Anabolic Member
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Originally Posted by marcanes29
But if you don't want to stick yourself more than twice a week for whatever reason you will not notice any ill effects because of the prop ester.
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03-14-2005, 11:52 AM #7
You have been around the forums a while, you should know that these threads have been all over the place and diff people have diff ideas...most you will see state that EOD is the way....however I myself have done shots twice a week and made good gains but I liked it much better with splittin it EOD
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03-14-2005, 11:53 AM #8Anabolic Member
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Originally Posted by HeavyHitter
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03-14-2005, 11:54 AM #9Man... i was hoping you had a better argument then that!!! Ive shot 500mg a week mon thurs of sus and ended up with great results and a leaky knipple of gyno formation!! It will still work bro, but the sides are twice as bad from the non stable levels!!
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03-14-2005, 11:57 AM #10Anabolic Member
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Originally Posted by HeAtMaN05
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03-14-2005, 12:00 PM #11
Who said anything about adding more Test?
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03-14-2005, 12:04 PM #12Anabolic Member
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Originally Posted by HeAtMaN05
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03-14-2005, 12:34 PM #13New Member
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I totally agree with mkrulic.
Originally Posted by HeAtMaN05
I shoot sust 2x a week. Works fine by me.
As far as gyno,or any bload just use proviron or nolva if this is a major problem.
just my 2cc
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03-14-2005, 12:44 PM #14
Just because somepeople get gyno does not mean thats true for everyone.
Everybody reacts different,sides will be diff from one to another.Gotta try for yourself.
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03-14-2005, 01:03 PM #15
shooting prop twice a week will not keep blood levels stable... its a proven fact... take it for what is worth.
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03-14-2005, 02:59 PM #16Anabolic Member
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Originally Posted by Consistency
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03-14-2005, 03:00 PM #17Originally Posted by Consistency
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03-14-2005, 03:07 PM #18Originally Posted by mkrulic
try this.... do a 10 week experiment.... shoot the same ammount of prop and just prop alone... no other esthers.... twice a week...... and tell me what sides you see.....
if you aren't going to shoot the sust EOD then shoot it twice a week and shoot prop on your non sus days.....
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03-14-2005, 03:08 PM #19
Oh and if you supposedly can't even notice the prop... then why run sus!? Why not just run a long esther?
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03-14-2005, 03:51 PM #20Originally Posted by mkrulic
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03-14-2005, 03:57 PM #21Originally Posted by HeavyHitter
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03-14-2005, 04:52 PM #22
i did sust 2x's a week and could feed a room full of babies with the crap leakin out of my nips. would never do sust again unless i could shoot it everyday. i am doing prop ed now and loving it. i prefer short esters but some just can't handle the ed injections. my opinion if ya can't handle the shots to do your gear properly you shouldn't be on. i like the suggestion of shooting prop in between sust shots. good idea. even if it's only a little bit it keeps your levels stable. i know i was a grouchy bugga when on sust
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03-14-2005, 04:55 PM #23Originally Posted by mkrulic
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03-14-2005, 04:56 PM #24
Consistency knows whats up. Of course you can shoot Sustanon 2x per week, hell, you can shoot it 2x per month if you're so inclined... BUT... Scientifically speaking, yes, optimal blood levels are achieved with EOD injections. Take it for what it's worth.
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03-14-2005, 05:12 PM #25
funny I have shot it like i would any other testosterone in the past ( I didnt know what I know now ) and I still gained very well... but I admit I had some roller coaster days, and night sweats.... and one day I was benching 315 6 reps forn 6sets... and the next day I was breathing heavy doing 135 for reps....
I still grew despite my dumb ass... thats why I love sust so much... of course now I am actually using it properly for the first time, and getting ready to end my cycle using it EOD for 8 weeks with Tren @75mg EOD as well... and I am considering throwing in some winstrol for the last 6....
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03-14-2005, 05:23 PM #26
hell i have heard of ppl shooting it ed and claiming it was awesome
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03-14-2005, 05:25 PM #27Anabolic Member
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Originally Posted by HeavyHitter
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03-14-2005, 05:30 PM #28Anabolic Member
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Originally Posted by Hazard
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03-14-2005, 05:36 PM #29
yup I used to do bachlorette and birthday parties with a guy named Tony who missed his pro debut by one freaking spot... #13 out of the top 12... but yup he was doing 1cc of mexican supertest 250 every day for about 12 weeks along with winsrtol, halotestin , anavar and ****ing LASIX....
for about a week this guy had the most impressive physiqe I had ever seen, think of Lee preists overall build and size... with frank zane and mike metzer's definition and vascularity....
he was ****ing sick to look at, but he couldnt quite hold it together for finals and got a little flat looking... but when he got back and ate crap for a week... OMFG he looked even better... and super swole from carb loading.... that is for about another week until he became a fat bloated suicidal coke addicted pig....
fellas that BB, is a rough ****ing sport, and it aint for me...
yeah back to topic, sust really gets bagged on alot but its ****ing awesome results speak for them selves... I think EOD is a good rule of thumb but can really depent on the user...
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03-14-2005, 05:40 PM #30
Interesting thread. mkrulic, why don't you run the numbers over a 4 week period shooting eod or twice a week based on half life and active life of each ester to guestimate the difference in levels? I have done it before for a single ester but never for multiple esters. I hate frequent injections so I stick with enan and eq twice a week. Supposidley the more frequent you inject the better even for long esters.
I also agree that the more levels swing the more sides I see (acne). Never had a gyno problem but I assume levels that fluctuate constantly would raise the risk of that side effect as well.
No calculations on levels is going to be exact because of the uncontrolable variables.
We are all here experimenting on ourselves and we all react differently. Over time we learn from each other how to minimize sides by learning from others mistakes or tests. This is the main benefit of the board, sharing personal experiences.
This is an interesting thread:
http://www.intense-training.com/foru...ight=half+life
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03-14-2005, 05:59 PM #31Anabolic Member
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Here is my point and I think I'll leave it at this, the exponential decay of the four esters by the forth day will not have decreased to a significant level.
here is the break down
formula for decay:
mg*2^(-day/half life)
Propionate 2 days
Phenylpropionate 4.5 days
Isocaproate 9 days
Decanoate 15 days
putting it all together:
30*2^(-4/2)
ans = 7.5000 prop
60*2^(-4/4.5)
ans = 32.4018 phenprop
60*2^(-4/9)
ans = 44.0920 isocap
100*2^(-4/15)
ans = 83.1238 deconate
total concentration on the forth day = 7.5000 + 32.4018 + 44.0920 + 83.1238
ans =
167.1176
difference from first to fourth is
250-167.1176
ans =
82.8824
so there was an 83mg drop. Let's look at every third day:
30*2^(-3/2)
ans = 10.6066
>> 60*2^(-3/4.5)
ans = 37.7976
>>60*2^(-3/9)
ans = 47.6220
>> 100*2^(-3/15)
ans = 87.0551
>> 87.0551 + 47.6220+ 37.7976+10.6066
ans = 183.0813
difference between 3rd and 4th
15.9637mg
on the second day:
30*2^(-2/2)
ans = 15
>> 60*2^(-2/4.5)
ans = 44.0920
>> 60*2^(-2/9)
ans = 51.4346
>> 100*2^(-2/15)
ans = 91.1722
>> 15+ 44.0920+51.4346+91.1722
ans = 201.6988
difference between the forth and second day:
201.6988 - 167.1176 = 34.5812
again I don't think anyone will notice a 35mg drop.
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03-14-2005, 06:01 PM #32Anabolic Member
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Originally Posted by sp9
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03-14-2005, 06:15 PM #33Junior Member
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Originally Posted by HeavyHitter
Did you guys use Nolvaldex through out, when you had the sides?
curious. (Not arguing about the eod.)
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