Do I have a strange question!!!!

[timw]

Hi folks,

I have a question and need suggestions. I am 48 yrs old and in not to bad of shape. I exercise, push-ups on blocks, stomach crunches, curls etc with dumbells. I have developed a case of Tennis Elbow (called lateral epicondytilis) I am wondering if some juice would help me strengthen my muscles in my forearm. Kinda look like Mark McGuire?!!!!! LOL

I just think that a "boost" may help. What would be a good thing to start with??? I appreciate the suggestions and thoughts you folks have. Obviously I'm TOTALLY new to this kinda thing but have considered it to help develop some additional strength.
Thanks again!!!!

[XxElitexX]

you need to give us your stats/diet/training ex./goals really before we can do anything.

[GetPumped]

Deca is good for the joints, other steroids (mainly the ones for cutting) will dry you out and actually might worsen your joints.

[Rickson]

At 48 I am a firm believer you would benefit from test and HGH therapy. You should have no problem getting either from various anti-aging clinics so I would start under a doctors care.

[AnabolBoy]

Glucosamine helped me when I got a simular injury.You may want to start there.

[macgyver_48]

the following will cuddle, spoon, snuggle and otherwise be nice to your joints:

Deca
Eq
Var
GH

[Danbrooks2k]

your 48, dude start putting anabolic steroids in your body and dont stop until your 300lbs... jeez what are you trying to live forever or what...

if I am still alive at 70, **** im gonna take up smoking and drinking again, while on 1 gram of anadrol a day, and having sex with mexican transsexuals without a condom...

life.... its slipping you by...

[CastorTroy]

I'd say try a Glucosamine/Chondroitin supplement.

[TheGreatOne]

the following will cuddle, spoon, snuggle and otherwise be nice to your joints:

Deca
Eq
Var
GH

Bro we got the same birthdate and all but you keep on giving bad advices to everybody. I don't know where you got that Eq and Var are good for joints

[J.S.N.]

i think people would benefit if you would describe tennis elbow in detail so they can answer you better.

[macgyver_48]

Bro we got the same birthdate and all but you keep on giving bad advices to everybody. I don't know where you got that Eq and Var are good for joints

i just made it up bro.

no really:

originally posted by AnimalMass on competitivemuscle.com

While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen syn while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca , Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

----------------

I guess you could add Primo to my list.

[Lozgod]

Worst post ever. Probaly the dumbest one too. Ever heard of HRT?

your 48, dude start putting anabolic steroids in your body and dont stop until your 300lbs... jeez what are you trying to live forever or what...

if I am still alive at 70, **** im gonna take up smoking and drinking again, while on 1 gram of anadrol a day, and having sex with mexican transsexuals without a condom...

life.... its slipping you by...

[KGBnine]

Worst post ever. Probaly the dumbest one too. Ever heard of HRT?

Bro, that's how they do it @ the tornel labs!! Juice till you're 300!

[Danbrooks2k]

yup thats our company's motto, we will get you swole or kill you in the process...

[KGBnine]

yup thats our company's motto, we will get you swole or kill you in the process...

Hey I thought the tornel motto was: We're not done with the batch until we've all pissed in it.

[macgyver_48]

Hey I thought the tornel motto was: We're not done with the batch until we've all pissed in it.

lmfao. dirty mexicans.

[Danbrooks2k]

we just changed it to... it will only make animals sick, but it will definitley kill gringo's!

[timw]

Holly S---,

I really appreciate the responses from you folks. Been on a couple different MB's on different areas,..ask a question and get nothing.
[/B]Danbrook2k: LMAO Dude! Might I suggest an alternative to the 1 gram of Anadrol ! LOL

Macgyver48: I appreciate you taking the time to resopnd and suggest. It sounds like there may be some possible alternatives for my injury with AS treatment,...as long as I know what I'm doing. Can you explain a bit more on this:

"Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan , @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days"

Would I just want to do Deca?...or Deca Equipoise and Primobolan together? How do these come, ie. powder etc. Where can I get? Would I need to work out doing some specific forearm exercises to help in strengthening? Do I cycle them?....and what would that be. Sorry if asking something you answered. Just want to be clear on it,...and its new to me.

Lozgod: I did say it may be the strangest question ever! LOL I learned a few years ago after being a regular on Huntingnet.com to have fun on the MB's,...so I don't/ won't take offense,....or get defensive! Can you explain HRT? Guess I've never heard of it. Keep in mind I'm searching for alternative's here. I will try almost anything as an alternative to surgery if it may help. The elbow doesn't respond in many cases very well to surgery. It doesn't thing surgery is funny,...even though its the funny bone thats being worked on! LOL I REALLY need surgery to be my last resort. The recovery is VERY long,...and often you recover with complications. I would in all honesty be better off going in for something like knee replacement surgery! The success/recovery is much better! I have been getting CORTIZONE SHOTS and the last one did not work,...so at this point I'm running outa options.
Just trying to explain why I'm considering AS as an alternative. Didn't know if it made sense or was a ridiculous thought,..but sounds like it could help.

Rickson: What is test? I've seen it on here allot but don't know what it is. Lozgod also mentioned HGH,...What is it?? Anti-aging clinic?....Macgyver48....did you hear that?!!!!.....LOL

AnabolBoy: You suggest Glucosamine. How is yours now? I've been thru my 2nd cortizone shot as I said above and still having problems. In many cases people have success by resting the injury a couple weeks. I'm way beyond that point as you can see.

John Stamos'Nephew[B]: Here is a blurb that explains Lateral Epicondylitis. Lots of good stuff on the internet if you do a search. Its a fairly common problem:

Tennis Elbow (Lateral Epicondylitis)
Description
Tennis elbow is a degenerative condition of the tendon fibers that attach on the bony prominence (epicondyle) on the outside (lateral side) of the elbow. The tendons involved are responsible for anchoring the muscles that extend or lift the wrist and hand.

Risk Factors/Prevention

Tennis elbow happens mostly in patients between the ages of 30 years to 50 years. It can occur in any age group. Tennis elbow can affect as many as half of athletes in racquet sports. However, most patients with tennis elbow are not active in racquet sports. Most of the time, there is not a specific traumatic injury before symptoms start. Many individuals with tennis elbow are involved in work or recreational activities that require repetitive and vigorous use of the forearm muscles (see Table 1). Some patients develop tennis elbow without any specific recognizable activity leading to symptoms.

Symptoms

Patients often complain of severe, burning pain on the outside part of the elbow. In most cases, the pain starts in a mild and slow fashion. It gradually worsens over weeks or months. The pain can be made worse by pressing on the outside part of the elbow or by gripping or lifting objects. Lifting even very light objects (such as a small book or a cup of coffee) can lead to significant discomfort. In more severe cases, pain can occur with simple motion of the elbow joint. Pain can radiate to the forearm.

To diagnose tennis elbow, tell the doctor your complete medical history. He or she will perform a physical examination.
The doctor may press directly on the bony prominence on the outside part of the elbow to see if it causes pain.

The doctor may also ask you to lift the wrist or fingers against pressure to see if that causes pain.

X-rays are not necessary. Rarely, MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scans may be used to show changes in the tendon at the site of attachment onto the bone.

Treatment Options

In most cases, nonoperative treatment should be tried before surgery. Pain relief is the main goal in the first phase of treatment. The doctor may tell you to stop any activities that cause symptoms. You may need to apply ice to the outside part of the elbow. You may need to take acetaminophen or an anti-inflammatory medication for pain relief.

Orthotics can help diminish symptoms of tennis elbow. The doctor may want you to use counterforce braces and wrist splints. These can reduce symptoms by resting the muscles and tendons.

Symptoms should improve significantly within four weeks to six weeks. If not, the next step is a corticosteroid injection around the outside of the elbow. This can be very helpful in reducing pain. Corticosteroids are relatively safe medications. Most of their side effects (i.e., further degeneration of the tendon and wasting of the fatty tissue below the skin) occur after multiple injections. Avoid repeated injections (more than two or three in a specific site).
After pain is relieved, the next phase of treatment starts. Modifying activities can help make sure that symptoms do not come back. The doctor may want you to do physical therapy. This may include stretching and range of motion exercises and gradual strengthening of the affected muscles and tendons. Physical therapy can help complete recovery and give you back a painless and normally functioning elbow. Nonoperative treatment is successful in approximately 85 percent to 90 percent of patients with tennis elbow.

Surgery is considered only in patients who have incapacitating pain that does not get better after at least six months of nonoperative treatment.

[houseofpain]

At 48 I am a firm believer you would benefit from test and HGH therapy. You should have no problem getting either from various anti-aging clinics so I would start under a doctors care.

nice post

your 48, dude start putting anabolic steroids in your body and dont stop until your 300lbs... jeez what are you trying to live forever or what...

if I am still alive at 70, **** im gonna take up smoking and drinking again, while on 1 gram of anadrol a day, and having sex with mexican transsexuals without a condom...

life.... its slipping you by...

TOTALLY uncalled for
~HOP

[BlocRoc]

As already said, at the age of 48 you could always start with a legit clinic that will prescribe you the best combination of compunds for your age.

As appeallling as it sounds to just start poking and injecting, I would go with the clinic, Unless you cant afford the prices, which I sure know that I couldnt. In that case, stick around here for a while, and you'll learn what would be best, as well as were to look to get what you'll need. Home brewing your gear is the cheapest method, but you should feel comfortable with injecting what you cook up in your own kitchen, some people just dont feel that way!

Regardless of your choices, stick around, we can always use some people that are willing to learn and contribute!

L8

[hoopcat528]

timw:

You had a lot of questions for some specific people, I just wanted to answer whatever I could.

First, several people recommended that you go see a hormone replacement specialist doctor (HRT) and I think this is a great idea. That way you are taking the drugs under a doctors supervision and they can monitor you.

Regarding Deca , it comes in an injectable form. The most common one is made by Organon. I am 41 and inject it every week to help me with bad knees (old football injuries). My knees feel much better when I am on cycle, I am able to run pain free, etc. Deca is relatively easy to get, good availability. I get it in mexican pharmacies.

Primobolan depot is also injectable but it is my understanding that it is no longer being made by Schering, the pharmaceutical company that used to make it. There is also a lot of fake Primobolan out there.

Equipoise is actually a veterinary drug originally made for horses. This might sound weird to a steroid novice but there are a lot of people using it, it is supposed to be a great drug.

Anavar is currently being made by a pharmacuetical company, you can go to www.oxandrin.com to hear about it from the manufacturer. This is a great drug but can be very expensive. It is supposed to be very safe as far as steroids go.

I really doubt you would want to do all of these at once and it would be very expensive. See what your HRT doctor can get you, and maybe go from there.

Regarding exercises to strengthen the forearm, I would recommend a physical therapist. I did this for my knees and I am very thankful that I did. It is really amazing what they are doing in physical therapy nowadays.

"Test" is testosterone . It would also probably make your elbow "feel" better but unfortunately it is actually bad for your joints, it decreases collagen synthesis. The extent of the decrease depends on the dosage, of course.

Good luck to you, I can empathize, joint pain sucks.

[Mesomorphyl]

"Test" is testosterone . It would also probably make your elbow "feel" better but unfortunately it is actually bad for your joints, it decreases collagen synthesis. The extent of the decrease depends on the dosage, of course.

I thought your post was well thought out and helpful. But... Can you point me to any studies or literature, medical or scientific, that can prove that testosterone decreases collagen synthesis. No disrespect, just want to give it a looksee myself. Thanks.

[co2boi]

I'd say try a Glucosamine/Chondroitin supplement.

Beat me to it.

[Mesomorphyl]

Beat me to it.

Don't beat yourself up it was only about 18 hours difference. You almost had him.

[co2boi]

Don't beat yourself up it was only about 18 hours difference. You almost had him.

Thanks for the moral support and unequaled effort bro.
I'm drinking milk, next time his a$$ is mine

[timw]

Hoopcat528,

Thanks for responding and answering some of the questions.

Where can I get Deca ? Can you explain how to use this stuff. Where do I get to syringe? Where do I shoot this? What are some of the effects? Do you get more energy? Need to work out to get the benefits?

I just when onto Google. Found lots of places for this stuff. Can I email you off the MB?

Thanks Tim

[J.S.N.]

[/B]John Stamos'Nephew[B]: Here is a blurb that explains Lateral Epicondylitis. Lots of good stuff on the internet if you do a search. Its a fairly common problem:

Tennis Elbow (Lateral Epicondylitis)
Description
Tennis elbow is a degenerative condition of the tendon fibers that attach on the bony prominence (epicondyle) on the outside (lateral side) of the elbow. The tendons involved are responsible for anchoring the muscles that extend or lift the wrist and hand.

Risk Factors/Prevention

Tennis elbow happens mostly in patients between the ages of 30 years to 50 years. It can occur in any age group. Tennis elbow can affect as many as half of athletes in racquet sports. However, most patients with tennis elbow are not active in racquet sports. Most of the time, there is not a specific traumatic injury before symptoms start. Many individuals with tennis elbow are involved in work or recreational activities that require repetitive and vigorous use of the forearm muscles (see Table 1). Some patients develop tennis elbow without any specific recognizable activity leading to symptoms.

Symptoms

Patients often complain of severe, burning pain on the outside part of the elbow. In most cases, the pain starts in a mild and slow fashion. It gradually worsens over weeks or months. The pain can be made worse by pressing on the outside part of the elbow or by gripping or lifting objects. Lifting even very light objects (such as a small book or a cup of coffee) can lead to significant discomfort. In more severe cases, pain can occur with simple motion of the elbow joint. Pain can radiate to the forearm.

To diagnose tennis elbow, tell the doctor your complete medical history. He or she will perform a physical examination.
The doctor may press directly on the bony prominence on the outside part of the elbow to see if it causes pain.

The doctor may also ask you to lift the wrist or fingers against pressure to see if that causes pain.

X-rays are not necessary. Rarely, MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scans may be used to show changes in the tendon at the site of attachment onto the bone.

Treatment Options

In most cases, nonoperative treatment should be tried before surgery. Pain relief is the main goal in the first phase of treatment. The doctor may tell you to stop any activities that cause symptoms. You may need to apply ice to the outside part of the elbow. You may need to take acetaminophen or an anti-inflammatory medication for pain relief.

Orthotics can help diminish symptoms of tennis elbow. The doctor may want you to use counterforce braces and wrist splints. These can reduce symptoms by resting the muscles and tendons.

Symptoms should improve significantly within four weeks to six weeks. If not, the next step is a corticosteroid injection around the outside of the elbow. This can be very helpful in reducing pain. Corticosteroids are relatively safe medications. Most of their side effects (i.e., further degeneration of the tendon and wasting of the fatty tissue below the skin) occur after multiple injections. Avoid repeated injections (more than two or three in a specific site).
After pain is relieved, the next phase of treatment starts. Modifying activities can help make sure that symptoms do not come back. The doctor may want you to do physical therapy. This may include stretching and range of motion exercises and gradual strengthening of the affected muscles and tendons. Physical therapy can help complete recovery and give you back a painless and normally functioning elbow. Nonoperative treatment is successful in approximately 85 percent to 90 percent of patients with tennis elbow.

Surgery is considered only in patients who have incapacitating pain that does not get better after at least six months of nonoperative treatment.

yeah i looked it up last night i just forgot to post back- i just wanted to make sure that it was in fact tendonitis.

also one tiny other thing to keep in mind is that you can run hgh infinity times longer than anything else so if i were you it's be my first choice by far.

[KGBnine]

Hoopcat528,

Thanks for responding and answering some of the questions.

Where can I get Deca ? Can you explain how to use this stuff. Where do I get to syringe? Where do I shoot this? What are some of the effects? Do you get more energy? Need to work out to get the benefits?

I just when onto Google. Found lots of places for this stuff. Can I email you off the MB?

Thanks Tim

Deca is an anabolic steroid and is illegal If you are contacted by people via PM's after this point, they are trying to scam you. i would see a doc, because chances are you qualify for hrt.Oasis rejuvenation is a legal way of obtaining deca. Maybe check them out.

[timw]

When I try to look up HRT or HRT rejuvenation I get mostly hits for women on menopause!! LOL Doesn't look like a popular thing in the states. Could not get a hit for anywhere around here in Rochester NY either. I have a feeling that the Orthopedic Doctor I see is gonna think "bad idea" if I mention any of this to him the next time I go in.

Any Ideas?

[Glock-19]

Test will help your strength and might help with joint pain. Stay away from Winstrol .

[hoopcat528]

I thought your post was well thought out and helpful. But... Can you point me to any studies or literature, medical or scientific, that can prove that testosterone decreases collagen synthesis. No disrespect, just want to give it a looksee myself. Thanks.

Mesomorphyl, thanks for the compliment on the post.

As for the medical study on test and collagen sysnthesis, see if you can find the original study quoted by macgyver_48 in this thread.

There was a study that he pulled that info from, I had seen the original study on another web site roughly 6 months ago. At the time I saw the original study, it did give the university or research organization that had conducted the study.

The jist of the study was surprising and contrary to what I often see stated on this message board.

The jist was that in order to not harm overall collagen sysnthesis, any cycle must have steroids that are "good" for collagen sysnthesis (primo, deca , anavar , and equipoise -the best for collagen) at a higher dose than those "bad" for collagen synthesis (winstrol -the worst, but also test, anadrol , etc.).

Not saying that I agree or disagree with the study but that is what it said.

[hoopcat528]

timw:

I get the deca in mexico but I don't bring it back over the border. I live close enough (lucky me) that I can buy it there, inject it there, and then come back across the border.

The package of organon deca I get has syringes in it already.

I have heard that if your goal for the deca is only helping joint pain and joint performance, a good dosage is 200 mg per week.

I only do 100 mg per week at a bodyweight of 235 pounds (6'4"). I think dosages are to an extent an individual thing, I always seem to get the results that I am looking for with dosages much lower than most people on this board would recommend.

You would need to do excersises to get the maximum benefit, feel free to PM me for any other info.

And yes you are correct, your current doctor would probably have no clue and would have a fit at even the suggestion of doing this.

That is why Oasis (the board sponsor) might be a good idea for you. I originally got steroids from a doctor (now deceased) back in 1984, when I was playing football in college and then briefly in the pros. I still feel good about the fact that a doctor first checked me out and monitored my early cycles.