What do you mean small! Part II

[BigJames]

Well, the results of my blood work are in, I was too lazy to find my old thread, but for those who care; My doctor commented during my vasectomy in Feb that my testicles were "smallish" and suggested that I see my family doctor to get my test levels checked. Now, if I had just come off a cycle or had ever used AAS before, I would attribute this smallness and concern to the cycle, but I have not done any gear yet. So, I get checked by my doc who tells me that he does not think anything is wrong and might not have noted the "smallishness" himself, but presribed full blood work. Blood work is now done, results are in, and a phone call (never a good sign) from my doctor today confirms that my pituatary gland function appears to be down; low test, low LH, low FSH levels. He asked again about the steroids , and after again confirming that I have not used gear, he told me he will be consulting with a specialist before he tells me any more about what he thinks might be the cause of my "condition".

Some stats again:
29yrs old
6'1"
235lbs
2 kids (4 yrs and 18 months)

Anyone know anything more about this kind of stuff? I know this is not a medical forum, but this seems to be the source for hormone related information. I am not clear on the connection between LH, FSH, and Test; I think that LH causes the Pituatary to release FSH, which causes the Testicles to release Test...is that right? Where does LH come from?

Does anyone know if this sounds like early natural ramp down of test levels? Or could this be something more serious? I am not too concerned at this point, but I really expected that I would have normal levels...I am muscular and I have two kids (good sperm count, I assume). Now I am freaking out about the fact that I do not have much body or facial hair, I have never been lean, and I had adolescent gyno when I was like 13 or 14 (which cleared up by 15 as I recall). What a year this has been.

[BigJames]

bump...anyone?

[BigJames]

Well, I have some appointments with a specialist coming up today and early next week...then back to my family doctor next Friday...time will tell.

[NoobJuice]

Well if your test levels are low, dangerously? You will be prescribed test.
HALLALUEA

[NoobJuice]

cant look at it all bad though ya know
good luck bro

[BigJames]

I have not yet seen the test result numbers to know if the levels are "dangerously" low or not. All the doc would tell me was that all my pituatary hormones were low; FSH, LH, and Test.

[system admin]

I would post this in the steroid forum.

[tonytone]

low levels of pituitary hormones is called hypopituitarism. the pituitary gland is controlled by the hypothalamus. when test levels are low, the pituitary gland releases LH, which causes the testicles to produce more testosterone . The pituitary secretes GH, TSH, ACTH, LH, FSH, ADH, and some others. hypopituitarism is an absence of one or more of these hormones. lack of one of these hormones will cause a loss of function in the organ that the hormone controls. possible causes of hypopituitarism are tumors on the pituitary gland itself, or even on the hypothalamus. Could also be caused by trauma to the head, brain surgery, stroke, or an infection in the brain. It may also be a metabolic cause. some other symptoms are feeling tired and weak, decreased appetite, weight loss, headache, low blood pressure, a lack of sexual interest, and *** a LOSS of body hair*** (did you ever have body/facial hair)

[tonytone]

bump for bigjames......

[BigJames]

tonytone, I have never really been a hairy guy...I am wondering if my levels could have been low all along. What if my test levels, etc. were always low...this might explain the adolescent gyno, the higher body fat%, the lack of course facial hair (I shave every 3 -4 days), and an apparent change in my libido (according to my wife)...

The tests will tell all...if I can get the numbers I will post them...normal LH is between 7 - 24 UI in men.

[BigJames]

tonytone, I have never really been a hairy guy...I am wondering if my levels could have been low all along. What if my test levels, etc. were always low...this might explain the adolescent gyno, the higher body fat%, the lack of course facial hair (I shave every 3 -4 days), and an apparent change in my libido (according to my wife)...

The tests will tell all...if I can get the numbers I will post them...normal LH is between 7 - 24 UI in men.

For those interested: I reciewed the results of my blood test and although I do not remember specific numbers and units of measure, it has been confirmed that my LH and FSH levels are only slightly low. But, my test levels are at 7.7 units when they should be around 20-25 units for an active male of my age. The concern is that my LH and FSH levels should be trying to compensate for the low Test levels by increasing, but they are not. Of more concern, my Prolactin level is very high...it should be less than 10 units but it is at 24...almost the same as a pregnant woman! This is the scary part, the fear is that there is a tumor on my pituatary gland that is releasing prolactin (a prolactinoma) and at the same time is interfering with normal pituatary function. I have a CT scan in 45 minutes. I will keep you posted with the results. I want to be clear with everyone reading this that my situation is NOT related to gear...I have not yet used anything although I had planned to...this situation is delaying my use of gear until I know what is going on. Later bros.

[tonytone]

For those interested: I reciewed the results of my blood test and although I do not remember specific numbers and units of measure, it has been confirmed that my LH and FSH levels are only slightly low. But, my test levels are at 7.7 units when they should be around 20-25 units for an active male of my age. The concern is that my LH and FSH levels should be trying to compensate for the low Test levels by increasing, but they are not. Of more concern, my Prolactin level is very high...it should be less than 10 units but it is at 24...almost the same as a pregnant woman! This is the scary part, the fear is that there is a tumor on my pituatary gland that is releasing prolactin (a prolactinoma) and at the same time is interfering with normal pituatary function. I have a CT scan in 45 minutes. I will keep you posted with the results. I want to be clear with everyone reading this that my situation is NOT related to gear...I have not yet used anything although I had planned to...this situation is delaying my use of gear until I know what is going on. Later bros.

wow.............scary situation. a tumor would explain the whole ordeal......best wishes to you, and keep us posted

[BigJames]

Thanks bro. I just got back to work from the CT Scan...I will likely get a call from my doctor on Wednesday or Thursday with some results. He is pretty good for relaying what he can over the phone...I hate having to drive all the way to his office just for information, you know? I have no idea how long I have been "suffering" from this condition...it could be years or it could be more recent. I personnally think that I have been afflicted by this condition for a long time...it explains so much about my difficulty losing fat and the fat deposits in my chest area.

Anyone know more about prolactin effects on the body? I know it shuts down test, which does not make my already low test levels any better, and I know it can cause lactation (which it has not so far, thank God).

Anyway, I will keep you all posted on my recovery.

BigJ

[bor]

Hope everything works out bro, we're with ya keep us posted

[BigJames]

Thanks bor.

[tonytone]

Anyone know more about prolactin effects on the body? BigJ

prolactin plays a major role in the functioning of pregnant women, however, nonpregnant women and men also produce prolactin. The reason/function for this is not clearly understood. like you said it can cause lactation, but can also cause lack of sexual desire/erectile dysfunction, especially when combined with low test levels

[BigJames]

prolactin plays a major role in the functioning of pregnant women, however, nonpregnant women and men also produce prolactin. The reason/function for this is not clearly understood. like you said it can cause lactation, but can also cause lack of sexual desire/erectile dysfunction, especially when combined with low test levels

Yeah, my sex drive is way down, but I am still able to get erections, which I know my wife is happy about

I definitely have some softness around my nipples that I think might be from the prolactin. Isn't prolactin the same hormone that Deca creates an excess of? The internet says the drug to combat prolactin is Bromo, which I believe is the same product used to combat progesterone gyno, isn't it? I guess I will have more info on my condition on Wed/Thurs when the test results come in.

[tonytone]

Yeah, my sex drive is way down, but I am still able to get erections, which I know my wife is happy about

I definitely have some softness around my nipples that I think might be from the prolactin. Isn't prolactin the same hormone that Deca creates an excess of? The internet says the drug to combat prolactin is Bromo, which I believe is the same product used to combat progesterone gyno, isn't it? I guess I will have more info on my condition on Wed/Thurs when the test results come in.

yes, deca can stimulate excess prolactin production. this happens by the 19-nor steroids stimulating progesterone receptors, which in turn, stimulates prolactin production. yeah, you combat progesterone gyno w bromocryptine, and cabergoline

[BigJames]

yes, deca can stimulate excess prolactin production. this happens by the 19-nor steroids stimulating progesterone receptors, which in turn, stimulates prolactin production. yeah, you combat progesterone gyno w bromocryptine, and cabergoline

Thanks tonytone36, I thought I was understanding that properly. I am frustrated right now because part of me wants to self medicate and move on...but I know that it would be unwise to mess with this stuff on my own especially when there could be a fairly serious cause for all this. I am really anxious to find out what the results of the CT scan are. I guess I just wish that this was all the results of my use of gear so that I could just start taking care of this and moving on...I had a cycle of Test E / Eq all lined up to start when this all came to light...now that is on hold until all is sorted out. I am just pi$$ed off because I am afraid that this will not be resolved before my AR-R Tamox and Letro expire...Lion says it should be good for a year, so fingers are crossed....it would be a huge haste to have to throw it away.

[tonytone]

Thanks tonytone36, I thought I was understanding that properly. I am frustrated right now because part of me wants to self medicate and move on...but I know that it would be unwise to mess with this stuff on my own especially when there could be a fairly serious cause for all this. I am really anxious to find out what the results of the CT scan are. I guess I just wish that this was all the results of my use of gear so that I could just start taking care of this and moving on...I had a cycle of Test E / Eq all lined up to start when this all came to light...now that is on hold until all is sorted out. I am just pi$$ed off because I am afraid that this will not be resolved before my AR-R Tamox and Letro expire...Lion says it should be good for a year, so fingers are crossed....it would be a huge haste to have to throw it away.

yeah, it sucks, but if there is a serious cause, maybe something can be done about it......i know how anxious one can get when waiting to start a cycle..........better safe than sorry though

[BigJames]

yeah, it sucks, but if there is a serious cause, maybe something can be done about it......i know how anxious one can get when waiting to start a cycle..........better safe than sorry though

Absolutely. There is no way that I will start this cycle until AFTER this condition is resolved.

[BigJames]

For those interested. My CT Scan results were called in to me today and they show....drum roll....nothing. WTF!! I guess I had myself all ready to accept that I was going to be told I had a tumour in there that I was almost dissappointed that nothing was found!! So I am no closer to understanding what is wrong with me then I was before!!! I have an appointment in mid-May with an Endocrinologist who may have an MRI done as apparently a CT scan cannot see subtleties as well as an MRI. I am frustrated now because I am no closer to figuring out what is causing my problem then I was before the scan...except that I guess it is now known NOT to be a large enough tumour for a CT Scan to find...oh well...hopefully the Endocrinologist can tell me what is going on...

Later...

[BigJames]

For those interested...I saw the Endocrinologist on Monday and she gave me my options. I had another blood test on Tuesday and if my bioavailable or FREE Test comes back low, I will likely be put on HRT. I will keep you guys posted. Thanks to everyone who has been helpful and supportive thus far. I am hoping the results show me something concrete because not knowing what is going on is makng me crazy

[tonytone]

MAN, you had not posted on this thread for a while and I was a little afraid to bring it up w/ you. I don't really know what to say, VERY puzzling. I brought the subject up w a doc that helps us out in the lab, and he says that this type of thing happens more than you would think (this type of problem, and not finding an exact cause) I ABSOLUTELY HATE not knowing what is going on with my body, and Im sure youre the same way. Keep us posted

[BigJames]

Will do tonytone36...right now the word they are using is "idiopathic" which means the cause is just unknown. I should have more info after the results of my latest blood test are back. On a good note, my cholesterol levels are "perfect" according to the specialist which is always good...

[BigJames]

Well, I got my second blood test results back late yesterday afternoon and it looks like I may be in for a couple of tough months. The test was specifically looking at Testosterone Levels ; both bonded and free and it was not very encouraging to me, but the specialist does not seem too concerned.

My bonded Test Levels (this is apparently Test that is attached to proteins in the blood) should be between 10 and 30 units (sorry cannot remember the actual units, but I was told that an active 29 year old male should be around 20-24 units) was 7.7 on April 2 and 5.1 on May 17.

My Free Test Levels (bioavailable Test) which according to the specialist should be between 200 and 800 units, was a solid 201 units.

She said that if I was 50 to 70 years old this would be normal. She suggested I come back for another blood test in 3 to 6 months. I opted for 3 months. She said if my levels are still low in August, she will put me on a supplemental Testosterone trial to see how I react.

What do you guys think of this? I am so "blah" right now. I have very low libido; fortunately I can still get it up when I want to, otherwise my wife would probably think I was cheating. I am tired almost all the time and I have had no desire to train for 3 weeks now...I just wake up and lay in bed. I am going to try to get my a$$ in gear and get to the gym tomorrow, but my elbow tendonitis has hardly healed after 3 weeks of no activity...could this be Test related?

Anyone with comments on this? I am all ears...

[busster]

your free test ref range is 23-82 pmo/l...

what is yours ???

looks like you get a free andriol prescription!!!

[BigJames]

your free test ref range is 23-82 pmo/l...

what is yours ???

looks like you get a free andriol prescription!!!

That is the wierd part...the specialist told me the free test ref range is 200 - 800 and that mine is 201. She did not mention units. Could she be meaning the same as 20-80 and mine is 20.1? I have not seen the actual blood work results myself, she read them to me over the phone. I know that a prescription is an option, but the specialist is resisting this due to my age and wants to perform another test prior to prescribing anything. I guess she is hesitant to perscribe something to me that I will be using for life when I have so much life left? I am not sure. I am tempted to go to my family doctor again and try to get the ball rolling sooner. A 3 month wait on this will be tough.

[Habanero]

That is the wierd part...the specialist told me the free test ref range is 200 - 800 and that mine is 201. She did not mention units. Could she be meaning the same as 20-80 and mine is 20.1? I have not seen the actual blood work results myself, she read them to me over the phone. I know that a prescription is an option, but the specialist is resisting this due to my age and wants to perform another test prior to prescribing anything. I guess she is hesitant to perscribe something to me that I will be using for life when I have so much life left? I am not sure. I am tempted to go to my family doctor again and try to get the ball rolling sooner. A 3 month wait on this will be tough.

Dude you are not alone in this situation. There is a Urologist here locally (Tampa, Florida) that had a weekly call in show with a local morning show guy (Bubba the Love Sponge). He did a men's health awareness event where listeners went and got a free sample of viagra and if they wanted to a free blood test to check testosterone levels . The next week when they were talking about the results, it was AMAZING how many young guys (the demographics for this show were 18-34 primarily) had low test levels. I think that this has probably always been the case and many people have been walking around with low test levels and did not even know it. Since there is a new "awareness" about men's health and HRT in general more and more people are finding out that their test levels are below what is considered normal.

[BigJames]

Well, for those who are interested, my Test levels are still low, apparently about the range of a 60 year old man, which is not so good for a 29 year old. I gained 15 pounds in the last few months, and it is not good weight. Along with low test, I have high levels of prolactin, which is a hormone secreted from the pituatary gland, which has led docs to believe I have a small tumour on the gland itself. I am now on a 3 month trial of Dostinex, which is essentially a drug that stops the production of prolactin, to see if this prolactin is lowering my test levels. If this does not work, I will be put on HRT...if it works, I will continue Dostinex for two more years in an effort to destroy the tumour. Keep in mind that this tumour I am talking about is very small; smaller than 3mm in diameter as it did not show up on the CT scan. I am frustrated by all this as I had planned on doing my first cycle this year and now I cannot. I am hoping to get an all clear before January so I can start it then...

[Unoid]

perhaps try a cycle of PCT and HCG . then get your test taken a couple months after to see if the natural production of test remained increased.

Trib and longjack should be things to consider as well.

[QuieTSToRM33]

damn man ... good luck with all that .. sorry to hear about it ... keep us posted

[big_C]

i hope that your ok bro, hopefully you'll get some presribed Test and be alright and everything will be ok again.

[elcapitan]

I'm in the exact same boat but I'm 32. The docs just keep waiting and waiting and aren't concerned that you feel flat and shi**y. I spent the last two years battling to keep weight off and it just wouldn't come off. I was exhausted all the time and couldn't sleep well) It wasn't until my wife said someting about the lack of sex drive that made me see a Dr. (endo) He really isn't knowledgeable about TRT and has been stalling making me take blood test after blood test. It has been 6 months and he still wants me to wait so I called Oasis and they prescribed me test right off. I have been taking it for two weeks and the morning erections are back and I have so much more energy. 360 degress from how I had been feeling.

Good luck to you and I feel for you. Let us know where this jorney takes you.

[tonytone]

Well, for those who are interested, my Test levels are still low, apparently about the range of a 60 year old man, which is not so good for a 29 year old. I gained 15 pounds in the last few months, and it is not good weight. Along with low test, I have high levels of prolactin, which is a hormone secreted from the pituatary gland, which has led docs to believe I have a small tumour on the gland itself. I am now on a 3 month trial of Dostinex, which is essentially a drug that stops the production of prolactin, to see if this prolactin is lowering my test levels. If this does not work, I will be put on HRT...if it works, I will continue Dostinex for two more years in an effort to destroy the tumour. Keep in mind that this tumour I am talking about is very small; smaller than 3mm in diameter as it did not show up on the CT scan. I am frustrated by all this as I had planned on doing my first cycle this year and now I cannot. I am hoping to get an all clear before January so I can start it then...

glad to see you again BigJ....i was just thinking about this thread the other day, and wondering what happened to you...i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that i bet it's a tumor causing the problem...hopefully the Dostinex will take care of it....keep us posted

[BigJames]

glad to see you again BigJ....i was just thinking about this thread the other day, and wondering what happened to you...i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that i bet it's a tumor causing the problem...hopefully the Dostinex will take care of it....keep us posted

Nice to know I have been missed around here. I am actually hoping you are right about this tonytone. I am looking for this problem to be solved no matter what the solution is. I am not pushing my doc for HRT right now because I am 29 and would be on it for a long time. Actually, I want to resolve this so I can do my cycle in the new year...time will tell though.

[Needle_Newb]

I bet if you were to take HCG and clomid, your nuts would get huge and your production of test would be normal.

[BigJames]

I bet if you were to take HCG and clomid, your nuts would get huge and your production of test would be normal.

You might be right Needle, but at the same time since my condition was not caused by use of gear, PCT may have no affect.

[shortie]

And seeing as how he has a fu*king tumor in his brain he probably is doing the right thing by not listening to our dumbasses and listening to his endo specialist.

Big J, God bless you bro, I wish you the best.

[BigJames]

And seeing as how he has a fu*king tumor in his brain he probably is doing the right thing by not listening to our dumbasses and listening to his endo specialist.

Big J, God bless you bro, I wish you the best.

Thanks shortie, I appreciate the support. I am taking this seriously. Technically taking PCT drugs right now "could" make things worse by stimulating the pituatary...