Please help 140lb scrawny guy.

**drak_lord** · 04-09-2005, 09:38 PM

Hello,

I am tired of being bullied and be-littled by the guys at the gym. I am 27 years old. 5 feet 10 inches tall. Started at 120 lbs and am now 140lbs (all natural.) I have taken creatine, whey protein and several other supplements during this time. I fear I have hit a plateu. In my last 3 months I have quit drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes. I work out 3 times per week only 60 minute sessions with heavy weight and low reps, concentrating on negative reps and stretching them out. Now I have a beer belly and am still skinny everywhere else.

I have compiled a cycle based on 14 hours of reading this website and other AAS websites.

Please take a look at the cycle and advise if I am doing this safely?
I have attached the cycle to this post as a MS word document (.doc file)
The cycle was made with Excel and is very well laid out in a table and easy to read.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

***G-1000*** · 04-09-2005, 09:42 PM

bro you only need one thread

**Juddman** · 04-09-2005, 09:47 PM

Welcome to the board first of all...second of all, I really don't like that cycle and I don't think anyone here will either. You only have test running week 1-5 and deca from 1-8. Test should be run at a higher dose than, and for longer than the deca. The dbol is usually used to kick off a cycle, or bridge to pct. And finally I dont like the pyramiding...I would keep the doses level the whole way through. Unstable levels of these compounds can lead to side effects.

***G-1000*** · 04-09-2005, 09:48 PM

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...99#post1730299

**abstrack** · 04-09-2005, 10:04 PM

I highly doubt you have reached a plateu. What are you eating every day? lay out your meal plan

**tycin** · 04-09-2005, 10:16 PM

its all on diet bro... check out the diet froum and i guarantee if u follow that u will put on size, 140lbs at 5'10 is pretty small! theres a lot of room to grow naturally b4 u hit the juice.

**beavertrap** · 04-09-2005, 10:19 PM

You need to eat more. Keep track of your calories so you know what your maintainence cal intake is. 3500 extra cals is one pound. Just make sure they are quality cals and high protein. When your diet is in line and you are gaining naturally, then think about cycling. Good luck.

**jgg1221** · 04-09-2005, 10:34 PM

gotta love all the people who just think that roids are like some magic juice that will instantly get you huge
NOT

first of all i dont think three days a week is enough
from my understanding by reading the routines of popular body builders, the most effective routine ive seen has been as fallows
day1: all upper body pushing exercizes
day2: abs cardio
day3: all upper body pulling exercizes
day4: abs cardio
day5: all legs exercizes
day6: abs cardio
day7: repeat routine @ day 1 schedule

2nd of all i think your probably just not eating enough
yeah im sure you take creatine, whey, bla bla bla
but your probably not getting enough of it
go to trueprotein.com, customize a mix of 70%whey 30%casein protein
or just buy a premade mixture...
take in about a half a pound of protein a day, either from powder or just food
and no a mcdonalds double quarter pounder with cheese does not count.
sleep as much as you can... get 10hours
try to eat twice as many COMPLEX carbs as you do protein
and get some EFA's in there to

you'll grow really quickly if you do that
you could put on 20lbs of muscle in a year of training if you fallowed that year round

the first "new gains" are the easiest to gain naturally and will come quickly if you eat and train properly.

also: if your looking for strength do lower reps with heavier weight, resting 3min between sets

if your looking for size, do higher reps w lighter weight, resting 30sec to 1min between sets

i think the last thing you need right now is steroids , considering how little you know about weight lifting and the diet that goes with it.

if you use roids and dont train or eat properly, youll gain very little and most likely lose it all very quickly

use roids once youve reached you natural potential

**TreNgoD** · 04-09-2005, 10:41 PM

you need to eat more protein and less carbs sounds like to me.

**drak_lord** · 04-09-2005, 10:43 PM

I am eathing 2,700 calories per day. I eat 240g of protein, 200g of carbs, and 100g of good fat. Most of the fat is from Flaxseed Oil supplement.

I also take 5g of creatine per day mixed with Ultra Fuel for an effect similar to Phosphagen HP. I take ZMA, 2000mg of Vitamin C, L-Glutamine Powder and 1000mg of Calcium.

I cook all my own meals and use a weight scale and USDA database to generate exact proportions (grams of protein, ect) so I can keep track of my calories.

I eat alot of ice cream, bread and candy (yes I admit it) but that is all in addition to the nutritional values above.

I really dont think I can stomach any more meat and use whey protein and also a weighgain powder called N-Large2 in order to meat my protein requirements.

**jgg1221** · 04-09-2005, 10:46 PM

oh, and i dont think there is any cycle that would put 30lbs of lean muscle on you in 8weeks.... i highly, highly, highly doubt anyone can do that with any steroids or diet

**jgg1221** · 04-09-2005, 10:48 PM

try eating more like 350g of protein and atleast 400g of carbs

carbs meaning things like oatmeal, WHOLE wheat bread, yams, brown rice, etc

**slob** · 04-09-2005, 10:51 PM

in your 14 hours of reading you should have noticed that unless you have a decent base, you shouldn't go on a cycle.

**drak_lord** · 04-09-2005, 10:54 PM

Hmmmm

I guess the main thing bothering me is that my body is so resistant to making gains. I believe that if I did eat a perfect amount of claories and worked out like a monster that I could put on 20 pounds or even 30 as you say.

The only problem is that in order to maintain that weight I would have to continue an extremely rigorous training routine and that is a daunting task.

To give you an example, i went to a city 4 hours away to visit my father. I spent Saturday and Sunday there and all he had to eat was frozen TV dinners. i ate alot less than I am used to eating and missed my back/bicept workout.

When I returned home on the 3rd day and weighed myself I couldnt believe it! I had lost 5 pounds!!! That is HUGE for me as I am figting an uphill battle. I was incredibly pissed off to learn this.

My ridiculous body is constantly fighting me to go down to 135lbs which is my bodies "favorite weight".

i thought that lets say I gained 30 obs from the roids. I am sure some would be lost at the end as this happens to everyone. but i thought it would give me at least 10 permanent pounds or put another way, give me some "breathing room".

i fear that my skin and/or connective tissue is not streching enough to allow the muscles to grow. i thought steroids would stretch it out and from then on it would be easier to put on weight.

What is your opinion on these observations?

**1-Cent** · 04-09-2005, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by drak_lord

I am eathing 2,700 calories per day. I eat 240g of protein, 200g of carbs, and 100g of good fat. Most of the fat is from Flaxseed Oil supplement.

I also take 5g of creatine per day mixed with Ultra Fuel for an effect similar to Phosphagen HP. I take ZMA, 2000mg of Vitamin C, L-Glutamine Powder and 1000mg of Calcium.

I cook all my own meals and use a weight scale and USDA database to generate exact proportions (grams of protein, ect) so I can keep track of my calories.

I eat alot of ice cream, bread and candy (yes I admit it) but that is all in addition to the nutritional values above.

I really dont think I can stomach any more meat and use whey protein and also a weighgain powder called N-Large2 in order to meat my protein requirements.

Well there you go, your diet is crap bro lol no offense intended but its the truth. The biggest mistake that new bodybuilders make, even if they are somewhat versed in diet is not eating for the weight they want to be, but instead eating for the weight that they are currently... and to top it off you are obviously an ecto like me, so normal dieting rules do not apply, ever.

If you weigh 140lbs and are taking in 220g of protien that is 1.7g /lb of body weight, which in it self is not enough for your own weight let alone your goal and the carbs are wayyyy too low, bulking isn't meant to be atkins approved lol.

So lets say your goal is to gain 20lbs to be somewhat happy with your physique (for the time being of course). The goal is then 160lbs and you will want 2x that in grams of protien, so thats 320g /day. Then carbs, I have no secret equation for that, I'm an ecto like you and that means all you can eat until you're on the verge of sickness, I try to hit 600g /day but its very difficult and often I only get 500g. For carbs do what I do and set a daily goal that is almost unreachable and try 110% to reach it as often as you can. If I were you I would eat absolutely no less than 400g, you NEED these carbs or its hopeless, make sure they are complex and not just sugar thats worthless.

**1-Cent** · 04-09-2005, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by drak_lord

i thought that lets say I gained 30 obs from the roids. I am sure some would be lost at the end as this happens to everyone. but i thought it would give me at least 10 permanent pounds or put another way, give me some "breathing room".

Totally false man, if you eat like you are today, gain 30lbs on AAS, you will lose 30lbs after your cycle is complete, no exception. Muscle doesn't maintain itself you have to feed it.

**tycin** · 04-09-2005, 11:00 PM

i guarantee if u follow the bulking sticky diet ion the diet forum for 6 months u will b surprised on how much weight u will gain... continue to do that til u hit a descnet weight and actually establish a base then think about using aas.

it takes time and dedication bro, dont expect anything handed to u easily with or without steroids .

**AG5678** · 04-09-2005, 11:00 PM

ok if you really want to do a cycle. Throw that piece of shi& cycle that you had in the trash

Test Prop 75mg ED wk 1-10
Tren
Var (if you can afford it)
Clen
Nolva 10mg ED
Clomid

But if i were you i would wait about 7 months to a year. I was 5'10 147lb when i started a clean "bulk" diet (NO steroids ) and now i am 178lb and still think i can grow more naturally. I put on that weight in a matter of 8 months. PM me if you need any help. Good luck

**1-Cent** · 04-09-2005, 11:02 PM

Heres a diet thread I did about life as an ectomorph, maybe something will help you out

Couple things I've had success with as an ectomorph

**johnsomebody** · 04-09-2005, 11:10 PM

How long have you been working out?

I think you're a good candidate to use gear but if I were you I'd be sure I'm eating and training optimally first, otherwise you'll just end up kicking yourself later thinking how much more you'd have gained if you'd had that squared first.

The crazy thing is everybody's body is different and every one will react to different routines and diets and gear differently. I think the hardest thing is finding what works for you personally, which just takes time. I think the advice here so far is pretty solid. Why don't you also list your routine and your regular diet? If you're losing weight at 140lbs you've DEFINITELY got to increase the calories! Even then finding that balance of carbs, protein and fats that works for you is the challenge.

Another crazy thing is you can never stop learning about this stuff!

**johnsomebody** · 04-09-2005, 11:11 PM

By the way, if anybody bullies and belittles you, he's a jerk. Don't let jerks make you feel bad -they aren't worth it.

**saluu** · 04-09-2005, 11:12 PM

bro welcome im putting you in for the monkey fan club here is the cycle bro for you i repeat if you wanna put on mass bro it is calories strictly calories good caloreis high protein eat like an animal good stuff no mcdonalds and take crazy monkey doses i have got a cycle that will put on mass even on michael jackson.

take 1000 mg a wks of test
frontload with 50mg of dbol
and deca 400mg a week

and remember bro i your liver hurts take liver 52 and you get headaches and constantly feel like kicking peoples ass welcome to the roid monkey saluu fan club. EatEat calories puts weight on you not protein not carbs i repeat Calories beaver trapp is right listen to him beaver trapp you are inducted in saluu fan club you will help newbie put on mass.

**TreNgoD** · 04-09-2005, 11:20 PM

mabe your ready for a cycle. Do your research and dont take 1000 mg's of test a week, 500 is plenty for a first cycle.

**1-Cent** · 04-09-2005, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by saluu

bro welcome im putting you in for the monkey fan club here is the cycle bro for you i repeat if you wanna put on mass bro it is calories strictly calories good caloreis high protein eat like an animal good stuff no mcdonalds and take crazy monkey doses i have got a cycle that will put on mass even on michael jackson.

take 1000 mg a wks of test
frontload with 50mg of dbol
and deca 400mg a week

and remember bro i your liver hurts take liver 52 and you get headaches and constantly feel like kicking peoples ass welcome to the roid monkey saluu fan club. EatEat calories puts weight on you not protein not carbs i repeat Calories beaver trapp is right listen to him beaver trapp you are inducted in saluu fan club you will help newbie put on mass.

Saluu be serious, its funny sh*t when you tell your crazy monkey stories but don't give uneducated advice to impressionable newbies. You're a funny guy but getting someone else hurt is not funny at all, please stop man

**tycin** · 04-09-2005, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by 1-Cent

Saluu be serious, its funny sh*t when you tell your crazy monkey stories but don't give uneducated advice to impressionable newbies. You're a funny guy but getting someone else hurt is not funny at all, please stop man

i agree 100% bro... i do find ur stories amusing but dont give fukd up advise like that to a 140lb guy

**saluu** · 04-09-2005, 11:29 PM

well in defence a newbie has no business talking about roids in the first place 1 cent i thought you were a canadian brother . anyways the monkey forgives you stupid questions deserve stupid answer to that newbie i was joking dont do that cycle. But please study diet and nutrition if you think steroids is gonna put mass on you . you are wrong from now on no newbie well try roids tell he has been training for 2 yrs remember the quicker the gains come from the roids the quicker they go. this guy has 9 posts and has already have his cycle laid out which is bs roids are not magic pills you should not come here for advice for your cycles otherwise i well keep giving stupid answers like this from now on no train for 2 yrs no guy under 25 is doing roids bend the rules and you can suck it policy well go in effect.

**LB55blitz** · 04-09-2005, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by saluu

bro welcome im putting you in for the monkey fan club here is the cycle bro for you i repeat if you wanna put on mass bro it is calories strictly calories good caloreis high protein eat like an animal good stuff no mcdonalds and take crazy monkey doses i have got a cycle that will put on mass even on michael jackson.

take 1000 mg a wks of test
frontload with 50mg of dbol
and deca 400mg a week

and remember bro i your liver hurts take liver 52 and you get headaches and constantly feel like kicking peoples ass welcome to the roid monkey saluu fan club. EatEat calories puts weight on you not protein not carbs i repeat Calories beaver trapp is right listen to him beaver trapp you are inducted in saluu fan club you will help newbie put on mass.

saluu i dont think hes at crzy roid monkey level like yourself. 500mg of test is plenty.

well actually i would suggest 0mg of test seeing as how he does not have a solid base yet.

**1-Cent** · 04-09-2005, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by saluu

well in defence a newbie has no business talking about roids in the first place 1 cent i thought you were a canadian brother . anyways the monkey forgives you stupid questions deserve stupid answer to that newbie i was joking dont do that cycle. But please study diet and nutrition if you think steroids is gonna put mass on you . you are wrong from now on no newbie well try roids tell he has been training for 2 yrs remember the quicker the gains come from the roids the quicker they go. this guy has 9 posts and has already have his cycle laid out which is bs roids are not magic pills you should not come here for advice for your cycles otherwise i well keep giving stupid answers like this from now on no train for 2 yrs no guy under 25 is doing roids bend the rules and you can suck it policy well go in effect.

From what I could understand that sounds like better advice

**BWhitaker** · 04-09-2005, 11:33 PM

Pretty much all has been said, but if you are going to do steroids the first cycle IMO is as follows:

Test enanthate 500mg/wk 12 weeks
Nolva 10mg day
Clomid PCT bumping nolva to 20mg day.

One could also jump with dbol at 20-40mg/day

**The Baron** · 04-10-2005, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by jgg1221

first of all i dont think three days a week is enough
from my understanding by reading the routines of popular body builders, the most effective routine ive seen has been as fallows
day1: all upper body pushing exercizes
day2: abs cardio
day3: all upper body pulling exercizes
day4: abs cardio
day5: all legs exercizes
day6: abs cardio
day7: repeat routine @ day 1 schedule

Why are abs any different from any other muscle? Why would anybody want to train them three times in only one week? Would you hit delts 3x/week, or traps, or biceps, or brachialis? Would you squat or deadlift 3 times a week? There is absolutely nothing different about abs that requires that they be trained three times more often than any other muscle.

2nd of all i think your probably just not eating enough

On that, I agree.

if your looking for size, do higher reps w lighter weight, resting 30sec to 1min between sets

I call BS on that. Resting 30 seconds between sets? I bet you do three or four sets of each exercise, too. You will have better results if you take time to recover properly after each set. I rest until I feel rested, then do my next set. Don't watch the clock... let your body tell you when to do another set.

Higher reps? Higher than what?

**Powerup** · 04-10-2005, 02:43 AM

if you see some powerlifters a lot of them have beer guts,,, some arnt particularly big but strong as hell although a lot may not look like they are....i think it might be time to up the reps and go for a good pump ,you have tried low reps and it dont look like its cutting it,increase reps to range of 8-12....make sure you do different exercises regularly to keep the muscles guessing...and get a bit of test into you it wont hurt ;].. start with 200mg a week of test and 150-200mg a week of deca for 10 weeks...see how that goes for your first cycle remmeber you can always up the dose..later.. goodluk

**Powerup** · 04-10-2005, 02:48 AM

oh i just noticed that saluu post well i have some advice throw him to ignore...simple...what a load of crap...

**CrispyHaole** · 04-10-2005, 06:12 AM

eat!!!

**drak_lord** · 04-10-2005, 09:33 AM

Thanks to all for their input.

I believe you that i have not reached my "base" yet. I wasn't really gonna take the gear now anyway but wanted to purchase it since I have a guy that is selling NOW.

With all this bad publicity on the news about depressed teens and baseball players I am concerned the government might crack down on gear.

Every time I hear another news story about juice I ger aggitated. Why cant they leave the roids out of the spotlight? These compunds have existed for over 30 years and people have taken them, so why all this negative publicity?

So thats why I wanted to buy the cycle and put it in storage until I hit my base. I fear buying roids will become far more difficult in the future if the U.S. goverment starts targeting them specifically.

**RUballs0514** · 04-10-2005, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Powerup

if you see some powerlifters a lot of them have beer guts,,, some arnt particularly big but strong as hell although a lot may not look like they are....i think it might be time to up the reps and go for a good pump ,you have tried low reps and it dont look like its cutting it,increase reps to range of 8-12....make sure you do different exercises regularly to keep the muscles guessing...and get a bit of test into you it wont hurt ;].. start with 200mg a week of test and 150-200mg a week of deca for 10 weeks...see how that goes for your first cycle remmeber you can always up the dose..later.. goodluk

not good advice bro, at that low of dose a mouse wouldn't see results. those doses are so low. dude has a lot of natty weight gaining to do before he starts even thinkin of a cycle. i eat more calories in a snack than he's eatin in a day. he needs to eat like there's no tomorrow, lift hard, and be patient.

**transform** · 04-10-2005, 11:06 AM

Drak lord if your lookin to put on weight then do no cardio(or as little as possible) as possible and get a weight gain powder to drink to help fill in the calories if you have trouble eatin your way up, thats what i did

.Do a rep range of 8-12. As for gear, if your worried ya may be prone to male pattern baldness and you dont shave your head or have a sentimental attachment to your hair, then id avoid dbol , anadrol and tren , nothing seems to be able to inhibit them converting to dht. However, test is a great mass builder and 500mg a weak will be more than sufficient, and also if ya use proscar and nizoral shampoo you should lose very very little hair(may even lose none i think).Ya should run it for 10-12 weeks.If ya do decide to run deca then do not use proscar, coz itll cause hair loss with deca.
First just get your diet sorted and make sure your eatin lots of calories and plenty of protein and get your routine perfected.TBH, ya sound like ya could gain a substantial amount of weight quite quickly and naturally by doin this(sortin your diet) and its good the thing ya said about how ya feel youve not reached your base yet.Best of luck to ya!

**RUballs0514** · 04-10-2005, 11:09 AM

go to the workout and diet forum. i think you'll find all the advice that you need right now there. good luck bro

**creepS** · 04-10-2005, 11:12 AM

just saw that 140 lbs thingy and i stopped reading.
i think this dude posted on another board asking for help and ppl telling him same things like here(you dont have a BASE to start juicing). 140 is to skinny,put 40lbs more(you can do it natural,takes bit longer but you can do it),and THEN, ONLY then you can think about juicing.
and that cycle is no good imo

**Powerup** · 04-10-2005, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by RUballs0514

not good advice bro, at that low of dose a mouse wouldn't see results. those doses are so low. dude has a lot of natty weight gaining to do before he starts even thinkin of a cycle. i eat more calories in a snack than he's eatin in a day. he needs to eat like there's no tomorrow, lift hard, and be patient.

yea right thats why i put on near 10kg my first cycle with only 150 mg a week of test cypionate ... trouble is you started high and went higher instead of starting low..maybe if you did then you would know what i know... as long as diet and training are in place 200-250 mg for first cycle is sufficient

**RUballs0514** · 04-10-2005, 11:27 AM

first off i've never done and prolly never will do deca . i'm partial to EQ and still haven't ran it yet. 2nd, and i think anyone who knows what they're talkin about will back me on this. the dose you recommended were way too low, and most wont recommend deca for a first timer either. his first cycle should be a test cycle, plain and simple. stackin compounds on your first cycle isn't the smartest thing in the world to do cause you don't know how your body is goin to react to them individually.