How do you know when Enanthate kicks in?

**Hed** · 04-12-2005, 05:40 PM

DONT raise the dose man, its your 1st friggin cycle.

You have to come to grips with the fact that your enanthate may be fake. Despite your sources, they could have picked up some bunk gear somewhere and never known about it.

**Sigmund Froid** · 04-12-2005, 05:51 PM

Enanthate levels peak on the second day, even though the halflife is much longer. The effect is almost immediate, but it will take you weeks to notice body composition changes. However, sex drive might be elevated sooner than you think.

**1-Cent** · 04-12-2005, 06:13 PM

Ugly women start looking like average women, average women start looking like hot women, hot women are the reason I carry moist towelettes and a change of pants.

**Thegr8One** · 04-12-2005, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by 1-Cent

Ugly women start looking like average women, average women start looking like hot women, hot women are the reason I carry moist towelettes and a change of pants.

**hardgainer1** · 04-12-2005, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by 1-Cent

Ugly women start looking like average women, average women start looking like hot women, hot women are the reason I carry moist towelettes and a change of pants.

hahah so true, you will want to fvck anything that moves, Does CYPIONATE act faster than Enanthate ?

**Nelstar** · 04-12-2005, 06:33 PM

i think cyp's ester is one day longer than enanthates

**1-Cent** · 04-12-2005, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Nelstar

i think cyp's ester is one day longer than enanthates

Yeah about that, the difference doesn't need to be taken into consideration for our purposes

**The Baron** · 04-12-2005, 07:27 PM

Your belief that you only need a certain amount of test, rather than needing more test than eq, is probably working against you. The eq and test together serve to shut you right down by your 3rd week. Your eq is hogging your receptors, and the "kick" won't be as strong, I am guessing. I would have done the standard 500mg test and 400mg eq, myself. It has a proven track record. When you follow the herd, you are going the way others have gone before. The standard cycles wouldn't be "standard" if they didn't work. EVERYTHING has been tried, that I can tell you as a fact, and the things that work, get incorporated into our lore and practice. The things that DON'T work, are quickly forgotten until the next person tries them. This is only a general rule, of course, but it holds true more often than not.

Your test should have kicked in like gangbusters by the end of week 4 to maybe the middle of week 5. You would know by your lifts, and your libido. I would not reduce your test E... but add 50mgED of prop. Maybe even 75. COnsider increasing your test E by a hundred, also. No sense reducing your eq at this point. Be sure you continue your test for at least a week beyond your last eq shot.

**Thegr8One** · 04-12-2005, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by The Baron

Your belief that you only need a certain amount of test, rather than needing more test than eq, is probably working against you. The eq and test together serve to shut you right down by your 3rd week. Your eq is hogging your receptors, and the "kick" won't be as strong, I am guessing. I would have done the standard 500mg test and 400mg eq, myself. It has a proven track record. When you follow the herd, you are going the way others have gone before. The standard cycles wouldn't be "standard" if they didn't work. EVERYTHING has been tried, that I can tell you as a fact, and the things that work, get incorporated into our lore and practice. The things that DON'T work, are quickly forgotten until the next person tries them. This is only a general rule, of course, but it holds true more often than not.

Your test should have kicked in like gangbusters by the end of week 4 to maybe the middle of week 5. You would know by your lifts, and your libido. I would not reduce your test E... but add 50mgED of prop. Maybe even 75. COnsider increasing your test E by a hundred, also. No sense reducing your eq at this point. Be sure you continue your test for at least a week beyond your last eq shot.

nice bro nice

**insanepump621** · 04-12-2005, 07:39 PM

if you kickstarted with prop for a test e and deca cycle which I am about to do... is the prop almost like dbol you see gains quick and fast. im bit confsued on why everybody kickstarts it with prop? I know why ending a cycle is good but not sure when kickstarting with it

**The Baron** · 04-12-2005, 08:37 PM

Prop starts to be felt in your lifts in a week or a bit more. Your test E will take time to build up, but it will be shutting you down by week 3, especially with deca added. So the prop kicker makes some sense. I wouldn't mortgage the farm for your prop but if you can easily get your hands on it cheaply, you could think about it and it would be worthwhile. Dbol will give you gains a little quicker, but remember that those gains are largely water... not a bad thing, but just remember what you are working with.

**Live4thePump** · 04-12-2005, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by The Baron

Your test should have kicked in like gangbusters by the end of week 4 to maybe the middle of week 5.

Like gangbusters....haha...you know how hard they kick...

**Two4the$$** · 04-13-2005, 08:34 AM

Nelster, I hope someone will jump in and confirm or deny this, but I don't think that you wind up getting a MULTIPLIER affect from two forms of test. Take for instance the versions of Test that are a mixture of many, such as sustanon . Anyway, I know you're trying to help, but my god, please make sense, and please be informed if your offering your knowledge on a subject that requires as much accuracy as this one. If you take 300mg prop and 300mg enanthate a week, you will have EXACTLY 600mg of Test in your system that week,so long as you're shooting the prop EOD. Anyway, anyone else have a comment on whether this is a good idea? LOL

Thanks all.

**The Baron** · 04-13-2005, 09:13 AM

Essentially, you are correct, Truman. The only reason, IMO, to run a long and a short ester together is at the beginning of a cycle, to jump start it. If you aren't concerned with splitting hairs about molecular weight of the esters, then yes, test is test, and 300mg + 300mg = 600.

**Two4the$$** · 04-13-2005, 11:28 AM

Baron, I hadn't seen the other posts you made when I made mine, I was (stupid me) only looking at page one. I was in a hurry this morning (just bought a car and was in the middle of the transaction) and didn't read thoroughly.

If I read correctly what you wrote, you indicate to continue taking 500-600mg per week Test-E AND ... TO ADD to that 50-75mg per day of Prop? So that would put me at up to about 500mg per week prop PLUS 500mg per week enanthtate (assuming it's real) ...? Thats insane! I mean, my enanthate could be bunk, but still, I'd be a little hessitant to jump right in to that dosage. Please, I'm REALLLLLY happy you stepped in with the advice, but did I by chance misunderstand you? This is afterall my first cycle.

Kindest regards,

Truman

**Cuttup** · 04-13-2005, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Considering they buy from mexico, and are definitely big dealers, use them selves, and have body building clients, and are actually personal friends, I think so. I'm kind of ruling out the possibility of it being bunk because my nads hurt a little before I started taking intermittent doses of HCG, I feel QUITE irritable, and have slightly more acne. Given all that I'm fairly confident it's legit. Maybe I just need to be taking 750mg per week?

are you saying you have had no results in size nor mass?..No you dont need to go to 750

**fudgedelic** · 04-13-2005, 11:59 AM

I would see no reason to up the dose, many guys run their first cycle at 500mg/wk of test alone, you already have more than that plus another 600mg in eq. If the gear is real, then the problem lies in a different variable.

**carmine09** · 04-13-2005, 12:00 PM

dont up your cycle with enthanate. go with the prop. my current cycle is very similar to yours but my sh*t is def. real and i front loaded its the end of week two and i am holding some water but def. see some results.

1-15 500mg a week test e // first week 750mg
1-14 400mg eg a week
frontloaded with 75mg ed of prop for weeks 1-2
D-bol 50mg ed 1-4
nolva 10mg ed
pct clomid and nolva 17-19
winny 14-18

going with more is not always better. plus oyu will see longer lasting results with a lower dose cycle but yours is pretty high now. good luck. it takes time

**carmine09** · 04-13-2005, 12:01 PM

oops just saw you were in week six! well maybe hold off till your next cycle and post your pre cycle thoughts for help!

**mohawkman** · 04-13-2005, 12:08 PM

has your sex drive increased? also you havent mentioned anything about your training intensity

**gooroo** · 04-13-2005, 12:20 PM

Dont forget about diet and sleep.

**Two4the$$** · 04-13-2005, 12:56 PM

Diet is about 85% perfect, training is adequate. I say this because I am confident we don't need to hash those subjects out. My sex drive is (if not normal) a smidge low, which is consistent with EQ only. I have a slight increase in acne, no sensitivity in my nipples, had a minor tinge of testicle achiness, probably an EQ only cycle would cause that also. I have gained SOME strength, but it is so slight that it could have been achieved without AAS, I have gained some size, but an amount consisitent with eating like a pig (which I am) and training, and EQ. I'm on my way over to my source and bringing my gear with me, we're going to talk about the possibility of it being fake and getting some prop instead. I told the person on the phone that I am NOT upset, nor do I hold them accountable, as I know them and am 1000% positive that if it is fake, it's as much news to me as it would be to them. I just need to fix the situation and make a change that will give me the results necessary. Thanks for alllll you guys' help. Thank you thank you thank you!

Truman

**Two4the$$** · 04-13-2005, 12:57 PM

Oh, also, the shiot I have is enantate, the mexican version of Enanthate , and it was in a sealed box, with a sealed Amp, and the label is high quality and looks quite real.

**dankduke** · 04-13-2005, 01:09 PM

this post was painful as **** to read i was just dyin to finish it..

your on your first cycle and u dont know what your doing bro?? did you research? not to flame u or others but

adding more test on first cycle? or even 2-3 compounds is too many for a first timer...

avg 1st cycle should be 10-12 weeks of test/sust or something at 500MG and see incredible gains (sus 500mg 10 weeks was my kept 15lbs)

changing to prop its too late already the test if real should be kickin in this week or next at the latest and like the other guy said consider it might be fake..

how can any of you advocate UPPPING his dose??? R u crazy??
already at just about 1G of gear a week (1st cycle)!

just my 2

danks.

**Cuttup** · 04-13-2005, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Oh, also, the shiot I have is enantate, the mexican version of Enanthate, and it was in a sealed box, with a sealed Amp, and the label is high quality and looks quite real.

THATS A HARD FALL AND I FEEL FOR YOU BRO. WHY DONT YOU POST THE BATCH #

**The Baron** · 04-13-2005, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Baron, I hadn't seen the other posts you made when I made mine, I was (stupid me) only looking at page one. I was in a hurry this morning (just bought a car and was in the middle of the transaction) and didn't read thoroughly.

If I read correctly what you wrote, you indicate to continue taking 500-600mg per week Test-E AND ... TO ADD to that 50-75mg per day of Prop? So that would put me at up to about 500mg per week prop PLUS 500mg per week enanthtate (assuming it's real) ...? Thats insane! I mean, my enanthate could be bunk, but still, I'd be a little hessitant to jump right in to that dosage. Please, I'm REALLLLLY happy you stepped in with the advice, but did I by chance misunderstand you? This is afterall my first cycle.

Kindest regards,

Truman

Okay... normally there is no reason to add prop in the middle of a cycle. Your situation is that you are shut down but not feeling your test... possibly it is underdosed, maybe even totally bogus, or maybe (my personal hunch) it is just because you are using more eq than test. So, you want to get some short estered test in you right away. Without the androgenic kick, you won't be training with your fullest level of intensity. You won't have the attitude or the drive. You might even feel friggin miserable by the end of your cycle. The prop ought to help you beginning a week or so after you begin it.

IF your test E is legit, then yes, that is a pretty high test intake for your first cycle, and I would never recommend it to start with. But we are looking at remedial action, trying to salvage something good from this cycle, not intelligent planning.

With this high dosage, you MUST have anti-E on hand. I might even recommend you go right on 10mg/day of nolva. It is a shame to have to do this... one lesson that you normally learn with your first cycle is how prone to gyno you are. You will not get the benefit of that experiment if you take nolva on a preventative basis. But It is something to consider when you are looking at over a gram of test per week on your first cycle. You might also want to include an anti-aromatase at a very low dosage, though I am lately leaning more toward just using nolva, for the lipid support.

This amount of test is not "insane"... it is very high, but indicated, I think, by your situation. And remember that test is one of the safest things you can put in your body.

You should probably send a sample of your test to a lab. Should cost you around a hundred bucks. There is one that many on the board use, and I don't have the url but maybe some kind soul will PM it to you. You must be burning with curiousity of whether or not you bought bogus gear. This would help to narrow down the cause of your problem and also enable you to either have or not have confidence in your source. I still think it is all about the high eq dose, though. I am a firm believer in running test higher than anabolic stuff like deca or eq.

**Moosepellet** · 04-13-2005, 05:33 PM

To answer the question 4-5 wks. I felt it in the 3rd wk but didn't come on strong until the end of the 4th wk. Started my 7th wk on Monday, running currently 750mg Test E, 600mg EQ, 100mg Tren /ED. Post some pics in a few more weeks.

**diezell** · 04-13-2005, 05:34 PM

i know the feeling ive been on a cycle of eq and sustanon for 3 weeks and havent felt a **** thing it sux

**Two4the$$** · 04-13-2005, 10:02 PM

Dankduke, briefly, you're reading comprehension skills are dogsh1t. Never comment on a post I make again, please.

To the Baron, you are a god send, and that coming from an agnostic! I brought my source the enanthate , they are as eager as I am to find out if it's legit. I'm re-analyzing things, and it sure does seem like I am having the exact body reaction someone would to EQ alone.

- slight acne
- slightly irritable
- better pumps
- slight increase in strength
- no water retention
- reduced or static sex
- can’t comment on the vascularity, I’m a vascular mofo to begin with

Further support for my EQ only affect is that I have a friend who is doing the same exact thing as me. In fact, I prep both our syringes… that being said, there is one less variable, and that is that my body simply didn’t respond to the test the way most people would have.

I am leaning towards the Test-E being fake or way under-osed.

My preference Baron, would be to replace the E with Prop. I know there may be some reasons to discourage that decision, (and I'd be very interested in hearing what those are,) but I believe my body will respond to Test at the doses I am working with - so long as they're real. My thoughts are, take 125mg EOD, and continue the EQ at 400mg per week. I haven't heard there to be a distinct advantage to jabbing yourself more often than that. This regimen would equate to:

500mg Test-Prop
400mg EQ

Furthermore, you made a VERY interesting point with regards to seeing how sensitive you are to gyno... You know, this is the first time I have heard this. So far, I have been taking 20mg per day of Nalv. PLEASE don't tell me that's the problem... I haven't heard of any contra indications to that dosage, just that it might be slight over kill, or a waste of money. On the other hand, I had heard of people taking arimadex that weren't getting results that were instructed to discontinue you and that the results showed up after discontinuation ... something about the estrogen being beneficial to the muscle building process. For the sake of a control, my friend hasn’t been taking any Nalvadex, and he hasn’t had results either. So…

Back to my motive for discontinuing the Enanthate... if it's fake, what would make me think that any of the other enanthates are legit? And secondly, maybe the prop will be fake too, but at least I'll know within a week.

I feel like my receptors may have been robbed of their first cycle gain potential and I hope to salvage it. Thank you again for all your help!

Regards,

Truman

**The Baron** · 04-13-2005, 10:17 PM

No, the nolva is not causing this... certainly not at 20mg. Don't worry about that. I would continue the enanth since you already have it, and add the prop. If the enanth is just underdosed, it will still help you out. Adding prop would probably be better, at least initially, than adding enanth, even if you get it from another source, because it will get you back on track quicker. If you have another source for enanth or cyp, which you can consider interchangeable, then you could substitute that for the batch of enanth you got now in your cycle. Continue your prop for 3 weeks after your last eq shot. Good luck.

**MaxPayne** · 04-13-2005, 10:50 PM

Im on week 3 of test e and I already feel it kicking in.Its pretty obvious when it does. Good luck.

**wolfyEVH** · 04-13-2005, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by MaxPayne

Im on week 3 of test e and I already feel it kicking in.Its pretty obvious when it does. Good luck.

"kicking in" is just a figure of speech....you dont just sit around one day and get this gigantic jolt around week 4 and say "wow, my test kicked in".....week 3 or 4 is when the the test levels (long esters) will reach their peak, and stay there. You'll gradually feel it working, but it doesnt "kick in" like you may think. As the days and weeks go by, you'll see your weight and strength increase, as well as lots of boners......you'll just feel great

**Two4the$$** · 04-14-2005, 11:08 AM

Okay, there's technically one more possibility - the first batch I had was good, and the SECOND amp of Enanthate is bunk, thus I was on it, then never continued it long enough for it to hit. This possibliity I consider too, because I had gotten up to about 204, but now, daily, I'm losing weight. I'm not down to 199, and I'm eating more than ever, and I haven't missed any of the enanthate injections.

As far as CONITNUING enanthate, well, that'd be tough, as I brought the Amps back to my source and bought prop while I was there.

Wolfy, good point, I wasn't expecting it to be THAT sudden, LOL, it just seemed that everyone could tell when it started really working.

Okay, IMPORTANT question, am I getting ripped off at $70 per amp of Prop? This is 100mg x cc... and my Enanthate was 250mg x cc, and I was only paying $80 for that. It just seems a lot more expensive. Also, anyone know street price of HCG ?

Thanks

**The Baron** · 04-14-2005, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Okay, there's technically one more possibility - the first batch I had was good, and the SECOND amp of Enanthate is bunk, thus I was on it, then never continued it long enough for it to hit. This possibliity I consider too, because I had gotten up to about 204, but now, daily, I'm losing weight. I'm not down to 199, and I'm eating more than ever, and I haven't missed any of the enanthate injections.

As far as CONITNUING enanthate, well, that'd be tough, as I brought the Amps back to my source and bought prop while I was there.

Wolfy, good point, I wasn't expecting it to be THAT sudden, LOL, it just seemed that everyone could tell when it started really working.

Okay, IMPORTANT question, am I getting ripped off at $70 per amp of Prop? This is 100mg x cc... and my Enanthate was 250mg x cc, and I was only paying $80 for that. It just seems a lot more expensive. Also, anyone know street price of HCG ?

Thanks

Prolly about $45 to $60 for a 10000 iu kit. Depends on what street you're on lol. You can pay more... could maybe pay less.

I don't think you are getting prop in amps... I have never seen that. Probably vials. An amp generally only holds 1 or 2cc and is meant to be used up in a single dose. You break the top off an amp... there is no stopper. I bet you are looking at a 50cc vial. $70 for 50cc of prop isn't such a bad price.

OBTW, by now you have probably got a half dozen PMs from scammers. You always get them when you publicly moan about the prices you pay or what your source doesn't have etc etc. Take them all with a grain of salt. REAL sources don't need to send unsolicited PMs strangers to sell their gear, and so usually, they don't.

Oh, since you are NOT running a long estered test after all, your prop dosage will need to be on the order of 100mg/ED. You still must have significantly more test than eq. I think I recall you said you were looking at 125mg/EOD... that won't be enough. You won't fix your problem, which is, remember, the fact that you are full of eq but short on test. You should of course have only done 400mg of eq in the first place, but now you already are well into it so no use reducing the dose of eq at this stage.

**Two4the$$** · 04-14-2005, 11:42 AM

Morning Baron...

100mg of Prop per day? And yeah, you are definitely correct, I foocked up the nomenclature, it's a vial. I have a 100mg per cc vial, paid $70 for it. So I will keep my EQ at 500mg, and start the 100mg per day (LOTS of jabs, is it really a bad idea to do 200mg EOD?).

Okay, and finally, since I might have NEVER had legit Test, I still technically don't know how I'll respond to it. My thoughts are, if at this dose the sides get a little harsh, can I back the dosage down a bit? It seems that most are against that...

No spammers yet... :-)

Thanks, as usual.

Truman

**Two4the$$** · 04-14-2005, 12:39 PM

Okay, I'm attaching some photo's of my prop. Also, it should be noted that the packaging was identical, as well as the holographic logo, the bar code etc. on the enanthate . I THINK this stuff would be an absolute PAIN in the ass for someone to counterfit, as this is quite detailed packaging. If I were going to counterfit a product, I would choose one of the less detailed brands to copy. But, that is without doubt just off the cuff, no real basis of accuracy to it. Let me know your thoughts guys...

Truman

**Moosepellet** · 04-14-2005, 12:43 PM

You'll definate feel a surge of strength, that should be totally obvious.

**Two4the$$** · 04-14-2005, 12:49 PM

Okay MP, but did you look at those pictures? Any comments or thoughts as to their legitimacy? Also, I presume your answer is to the question of how you know when your gear kicks in... What about the prop question of ED vs. EOD?

Thanks

**Z-Ro** · 04-14-2005, 12:53 PM

Yo, Truman did you look at QV's site, looks good to me : Prop. Qv 100 QVP-010 January 2007

**The Baron** · 04-14-2005, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Morning Baron...

100mg of Prop per day? And yeah, you are definitely correct, I foocked up the nomenclature, it's a vial. I have a 100mg per cc vial, paid $70 for it. So I will keep my EQ at 500mg, and start the 100mg per day (LOTS of jabs, is it really a bad idea to do 200mg EOD?).

Okay, and finally, since I might have NEVER had legit Test, I still technically don't know how I'll respond to it. My thoughts are, if at this dose the sides get a little harsh, can I back the dosage down a bit? It seems that most are against that...

No spammers yet... :-)

Thanks, as usual.

Truman

yup. 700. No less than 600, anyway, since you are already doing 500 of eq. You want to SOLVE your problem, not prolong it. Your test needs to be significantly more than your eq. I would go ED. You will get less side effects because your levels will be more stable.

The only sides you might encounter would be bloating and gyno from estrogen. Nolva will take care of that.