BIG bulking cycle, not for me. Opinions/advice?

I have been helping this guy tighten up for about 8 months now. He had done 4 cycles before I met him, but not particularly good ones... mostly the product of bad advice and misinformation. I helped him put together a cutting cycle a while back, and the guy is about 12%BF, 5'9" and a bit over 200. He is determined to do a heavy bulking cycle. I told him what I'm doing, (prop and fina ED, cyp and deca E3D and staggered so no shot is over 3-1/4cc) and it was like a lightbulb came on in his pointy head. He wants to run 300mg Test E EOD and 200mg eq EOD, with the eq for 14 weeks and the test for 16 weeks, jumpstart with test suspension and bridge to pct with suspension as well. I just crunched the numbers... 700mg/week of eq and 1050mg test. Is this a bit on the rich side? I have never heard of anybody doing 700mg of eq in a week. Originally, he wanted to use deca until I told him about progesterone type gyno and how hard it is to control if you get it. I figure he could do the test at that dose and maybe cycle anadrol or dbol 4 on / 4 off while he does the test for 16 weeks, and maybe do more like 400 mg of either deca or eq. Whatcha think? Also, he is salivating over my fina... really wants to try it, but the guy is a bit goofy and I figure he will go off on some bozo if he adds any tren at any meaningful doses. What should I tell him? He is 39 and has trained for about 15 years.

Has he run test before? What did his other cycles look like? I wouldn't reccomend running 1g of test if he's never done any heavy cycles before (like if his others were winny only type cycles). I wouldn't bother with the EQ, JMO. Sounds like he's got a good base and if his other cycles were decent I wouldn't see anything wrong with running 1g of test and 500mg of tren. That would be an excellent cycle, just make sure he has all the ancillries he needs.

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Originally Posted by joevette

Has he run test before? What did his other cycles look like? I wouldn't reccomend running 1g of test if he's never done any heavy cycles before (like if his others were winny only type cycles). I wouldn't bother with the EQ, JMO. Sounds like he's got a good base and if his other cycles were decent I wouldn't see anything wrong with running 1g of test and 500mg of tren. That would be an excellent cycle, just make sure he has all the ancillries he needs.

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I talked to him this morning and he is a little hazy on dosages in his early cycles... I guess due to "stacking" gear with his recreational drugs lol! He used to do anything that would either make him go "wow, dude" or put a smile on his face. Anyway his first two cycles were orals... first one 7 or 8 weeks ("I dunno... I used it until I ran out") of dbol and the second was dbol and anadrol. Like I said, he was working with a lot of misinformation. His third cycle was 1000mg/week of sustanon for 10 weeks and 30mg dbol ED for the whole 10 weeks, and no pct. His last cycle, the one I helped him with, was 400mg cyp for 15 weeks, winny at 50mg/ED weeks 3-7 and 12-17, 200mg deca weeks 1-13, and suspension, 50mg/day weeks 17 and 18, pct two days after the last suspension jab. He was pretty porky when he started, but he hardened right up, and his whole life turned around after he finished, and he started getting really scientific and even anal about his diet, cardio, etc. Like I said, the guy is a little unbalanced and so I was hesitant to suggest any tren with that cycle. Maybe I am just being noid about it but I got a bad feeling about him and tren. Anyway, he has done a gram of test before... of sustanon, anyway, and of course he only shot twice a week, but he still got decent gains and only a trace of gyno related symptoms. I figure on putting him at 10mg/ED of nolva on this heavy cycle, right from the start, and bumping it if his nips get itchy or puffy.

So drop the eq, you think? I guess I can give him some of my fina, a small jug at a time, and if he gets squirrely I just cut him off or fill it up with some of his own test. Then he would be right as rain in a week or so. Honestly, I wouldn't even be doing this for this screwball but he got me out of a serious jam a few years ago, and if I don't help him he will just get some gear from some shady character at a gym and do it, and I guess I feel a little protective of him. His mental faculties are slightly diminished from a childhood of drug abuse and possibly some genetic shortcomings. He has been kicked out of two trailer parks, and that is not a joke. He has self esteem issues, and it made me feel pretty good to see him strutting in front of a mirror and grinning at himself after his big cutter. Now he wants to get hyoooge and then do another cutting cycle, get tanned, shaved, all that crap, and be a beach god. It is rare to see this guy planning ahead like that, and I don't want to screw it up for him.

If he's a little mentally unstable I wouldn't reccomend tren or EQ. Tren doesn't effect me mentally, but it has serious effects for some people. Eq is also known to cause anxiety. So, I'd just go with a nice dose of Test. If he already has some gyno and he want to run 1g of test then he should definatly use both an AI and a SERM during the cycling and into pct.

Okay Joe... I didn't realize eq causes anxiety in some folks.

What do you think about a very low dose of AI (like .25mg EOD of letro) and a moderate dose of nolva, to get the lipid benefit, like 20mg/ED?

Followed this thread with some interest. What happened?

What did he finally take, and did he freak out and get thrown out of another trailer park?

As fate would have it, he collected on a settlement for an injury and is buying a condo. It isn't final yet and he hasn't moved in, but it looks like a done deal. He is also thinking about seeing a shrink... I never realized how much baggage this guy carries around until he unloaded recently and lemme tell you, it is pretty heavy. Maybe he will be less screwy after working out some of that stuff with a doc. Still just thinking about it, nothing definite, but that is the first step, realizing you got problems and sort of identifying them. Anyway he started his cycle a bit over a week ago and he is running 250mg cyp EOD, 50mg fina ED, 400mg eq weekly split in two shots. He is gonna stretch this out to 18 weeks, stopping the eq early, adding winny the last 6 weeks and starting low dose deca for joint support 2 weeks before starting the winny and stopping 2 weeks before the end. He also wants to run prop after the last cyp shot, for 2-3 weeks for a quicker crash and recovery. Standard PCT. He has most of his gear except the winny now, and the prop. Has some, but not enough. Since his cycle is okay without either of those two drugs, in case he doesn't get them, he went ahead and started. No probs from the fina yet. In another week I will talk to him about upping the fina dose a bit but right now his lifts are slightly up (placebo effect actually, I think) and he is strutting around pretty cocky... not drinking, not smoking, eating "fairly" decent. His attitude is through the roof, and that is always conducive to growth. I think the guy is gonna get big as a house if he keeps it up as the cyp and as the eq kick in. I wish it was me LOL! I am doing something similar but deca instead of eq and way lower test dosage cause my test is pretty expensive. (prescription, not UG)

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Originally Posted by joevette

If he's a little mentally unstable I wouldn't reccomend tren or EQ. Tren doesn't effect me mentally, but it has serious effects for some people. Eq is also known to cause anxiety. So, I'd just go with a nice dose of Test. If he already has some gyno and he want to run 1g of test then he should definatly use both an AI and a SERM during the cycling and into pct.

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How exactly does Tren affect people mentally? I'm thinking about taking Tren and just a little curious...

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Originally Posted by musclestack

How exactly does Tren affect people mentally? I'm thinking about taking Tren and just a little curious...

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Tren can be very powerfully psychoactive in most users. This can of course be moderated by adjusting dosage. This is one good reason for first time tren users to stick with tren acetate rather than a long ester like tren enanthate or parabolan. If sides get out of hand, simply reduce the dosage and you will see a difference in usually a week or so.

Tren is a funny drug. There seems to be a very narrow range where it is effective but sides are tolerable. Most users try to adjust the dose to the point where side effects are noticeable but manageable. Even a 10mg difference can be a lot, with fina.

Sides can include hyperaggressiveness, insomnia and night sweats, acne, progestin-type gyno (particularly when stacked with large amounts of deca) and I guess that's about it. The "roid rage" myth is not such a myth with heavy users of trenbolone. One must be ever watchful on tren, and quick to stop, take a deep breath, count to 10, etc. Remember, it's the tren... not you. No reason to fly off the handle for little things. Chill. Reduce your dose if necessary.

"Fina fury" does not affect all users, and most are able to handle it either mentally or by cutting back on the dose. Don't let it scare you away from this very effective AAS... but don't be as casual about using it as you would test or some other relatively benign substance. With test, you can, with relative safety, increase your dosage by 5 times the 'normal' dose with few ill effects. One simply can't be as cavalier with tren. Respect it and it will do your body good. Use it carelessly, and you will probably regret it.

Thanks for the update on your friend. Like a good audience, I'm very interested in hearing this story have an happy ending.
-T.