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  1. #1
    JYarber is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005

    What else do I need?

    Im fixing to start a 12wk cycle with Test 250 and some Naps. 500mg/week of test enanthate for weeks 1-12 (inject 250mg on monday, and again on thurs)
    30mg everyday of dbol for weeks 1-4. I was curious what else do I need to get to try to avoid side affects and just to keep my body straight. Also what to use when Im getting off like some clomid?

  2. #2
    *Narkissos*'s Avatar
    *Narkissos* is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    During the cycle you may need an anti-E and/or aromitase inhibitors

    Post cycle you'll have to employ PCT(post-cycle therapy)

    This'll usually entail either Nolvadex or Clomid or the combination of both(depends on personal preference/experience)

    This is basic cycle-knowledge: Stuff you'd know if you used the search engine..or read educational threads.

  3. #3
    RA's Avatar
    RA is offline Grade A Beef
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Getting madcow treatments
    Go to pct forum and look at pheednos post. If you dont do it properly you wont keep the gains.

  4. #4
    The Baron's Avatar
    The Baron is offline Fourth Koala of the Apocalypse
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    The most important thing DURING your cycle is to have nolvadex on hand. This is your first cycle, and you should be learning how test affects you and particularly how prone you are go gyno. So, I would not run nolvadex or any other anti-e right from the start. Watch closely for symptoms, and hit the nolva only if/when you get them. Symptoms can include itchy nipples, pain in response to pressure on the nipples, or lumps behind or surrounding the nipples. Lactation as well, though this would be rare in the early stages of estrogen type gyno. You may notice nipple erections and they are not necessarily a sign of gyno. Nipples contain erectile tissue that can respond in similar fashion with the penis, and high test levels can increase this response. OTOH, enhanced sensitivity of any sort is cause for watchful concern. At the first definite sign of gyno, start your nolvadex. Some folks will tell you hit it with 40mg/ED until symptoms subside, then reduce to 20, then to 10. Others will tell you to take at least 80mg initially. My recent experience has me leaning toward the higher dose as a first response to symptoms. 40 didn't do the trick. 60, well, didn't seem quite enough. 80mg pretty much eliminated it. Anyway, have enough nolva on hand for a week of high dose and enough to continue all the way through pct at 20mg, so you know you are covered. You DON'T want to be waiting patiently for a nolva delivery while your breasts are growing like a girl in puberty. You know how quick they can bud out, I'm sure. Once you start nolva, DO NOT STOP until after the end of PCT. Nolvadex does not eliminate estrogen. It does not prevent the formation of estrogen. It only mimics estrogen and binds to the receptors and blocks the real estrogen from the sensitive tissues. An aromatase inhibitor such as liquidex does prevent aromatization of testosterone to estrogen. The preference, unless you have a history of gyno or are doing a lot of aromatizing steroids , is to use nolva or have it on hand, rather than to use an aromatase inhibitor.

    Pheedno's thread on PCT is good stuff. I won't rehash it here; read the thread yourself. Myself, old dinosaur that I am, I still run the old 300/100/50mg routine with clomid. This cycle I will also be running hcg for the last 10 weeks of my cycle up to a week before pct. Your cycle doesn't necessarily call for hcg. I would give it a miss, for the same reason I recommend not going on nolvadex until you need it; you need to observe your body's reactions. A good exercise would be to get some bodyfat calipers and actually measure your balls through your cycle, recording their size every week. I should have done that a long time ago, but I know mine start losing size about 8 weeks into a test/deca cycle already...I just don't know precisely how much. The shrinking is a secondary effect of a depressed hpta. When you are "shut down" from the gear, little or no leutinizing hormone (LH) is making its way to the testicles. LH basically tells the leydig cells to produce testosterone. In response to inactivity, that tissue atrophies to a degree, thus the shrinkage. This takes some time to become noticeable so it is not a perfect benchmark, having such a delayed reaction. Still it is something to notice. And when they return to full size again, you know that they have been restored to functionality. HCG mimics LH, and fools them into getting back to work, at least temporarily. High doses of hcg will desensitize them to both more hcg and to LH, so hcg treatment consists of either low doses administered frequently over a long period of time, or 2 or 3 large doses spaced a few (usually 5) days apart. Often, the hpta recovers and begins sending LH to the testicles while they are still dormant and unable to immediately take advantage of the restored LH levels. That is where the hcg comes in. It is as if the testicles have been seeing plenty lf LH since the hcg was started, and so when the real LH is restored, they just pick right up without missing a beat. You need to be aware of how hard you shut down and how difficult it is to restore your nads and how long it takes, so that in the future you can make an intelligent decision on exactly how you will administer your hcg.

    So, what else do you need? Nolvadex and clomid. Figure out how much you will need and get it before you begin your first cycle. Nothing else is essential, but these two things are.

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