Disagreement with Frontloading

Having a discussion with a fellow AS user on frontloading. I have read all advice of people who think its great and others think its a waste. Let's just assume that someone has decided to frontload for a 12 week Test C cycle.

Assuming they are going to run the Test C at approximately 400mgs a week (actually they are going to do a shot of 200 mgs every 3 days which works out to be approximately 467mg per week).

An adviseable frontload for the above cycle would be to increase the injections from 200mgs to 400mgs for the first week. An alternative solution would be to increase the number of injections by 2 for the first week.

Consideration also could be given to increasing the injections during week 2. I have seen people doubling the dosage again for week 2. I have also seen people increase the dosage by 50% in week 2.

Is this accurate information?

Personally I think frontloading is more mental than physical.(gotta have those gains quick quick quick) Havent read anything yet that would change my mind about that.

If you play with the Roid calc (http://www.come.to/roidcalc), you'll see that frontloading is real and makes a difference. Basically, by doubling up on your dosing the first week, you bring your accumulated bloodlevels to near max within a week. Otherwise it could take 3 to 4 weeks to reach this level. This is why people often refer to Test not kicking in until week 3.
Ideally you want a cycle that has a 'Devil's tower' proile i.e. a steep increase in blood levels, a long plateau, and then a sharp dropoff. You can achieve this by frontloading the first week or two, maintaining for a few weeks, and then switching to shorter-acting esters the last few weeks.

Maetenloch,

The calculator looks awesome. I just do not see how you use your calculator if you are using Test C or E.

I am sure it is something that I am just overlooking, but I just do not see how you do it.

Thanks for the input.

I have never front loaded by doubling up dosages. I prefer to use a shorter ester test the first 4 weeks like prop and it works great for me.

Mike_xxl has a great post explaining frontloading. Using prop to kickstart does the same thing. This should help: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=frontloading

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tempbrit

Maetenloch,

The calculator looks awesome. I just do not see how you use your calculator if you are using Test C or E.

I am sure it is something that I am just overlooking, but I just do not see how you do it.

Thanks for the input.

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Why is the title of your post "disagreeing with frontloading" but all you wanted to know was how to and maybe why...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tempbrit

Maetenloch,

The calculator looks awesome. I just do not see how you use your calculator if you are using Test C or E.

I am sure it is something that I am just overlooking, but I just do not see how you do it.

Thanks for the input.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tempbrit

Maetenloch,

The calculator looks awesome. I just do not see how you use your calculator if you are using Test C or E.

I am sure it is something that I am just overlooking, but I just do not see how you do it.

Thanks for the input.

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It's a bit tricky. You have to know the trade names of different compounds to be sure you're getting the right results. What I do is change the half-life for Deca at the top to match whatever compound I'm trying to calculate, and then use the Deca column. This doesn't work so well if you stacking though.
Also their half-lives seem wrong - test E should be 10.5 days not 5, and deca should be 15 days not 7.

There used to be better calculators, but they seem to have gone away. So now I'm made my own spreadsheet that I used to plan out cycles. Plus with Excel I can make pretty graphs showing my blood levels at moment in time. :-)

Frontloading is the way to go, you can check out my current cycle in members results. Test E kicked in within 2 weeks for me..........I dont like waiting for 4-5 weeks.

Even if you double or triple the dosages of Test E or C it still takes about 4 weeks to kick in. I think that using prop EOD or ED gets you pumped real quick until your Test E or C kicks in.

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Originally Posted by sooners04

Even if you double or triple the dosages of Test E or C it still takes about 4 weeks to kick in. I think that using prop EOD or ED gets you pumped real quick until your Test E or C kicks in.

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I don't see how this follows. Taking a pulse of test E will result in peak blood levels within a few hours which will then decay exponentially very slowly. Test prop peaks faster and higher but decays a lot faster too. If you take a high enough dose of test E, it will peak about to the levels that you would have reached normally after a few weeks. At this point all you have to do is to maintain your injection schedule to keep your blood levels nearly constant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maetenloch

It's a bit tricky. You have to know the trade names of different compounds to be sure you're getting the right results. What I do is change the half-life for Deca at the top to match whatever compound I'm trying to calculate, and then use the Deca column. This doesn't work so well if you stacking though.
Also their half-lives seem wrong - test E should be 10.5 days not 5, and deca should be 15 days not 7.

There used to be better calculators, but they seem to have gone away. So now I'm made my own spreadsheet that I used to plan out cycles. Plus with Excel I can make pretty graphs showing my blood levels at moment in time. :-)

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Would you mind sharing your excel file? I could really use a good one to help me track my levels. Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maetenloch

I don't see how this follows. Taking a pulse of test E will result in peak blood levels within a few hours which will then decay exponentially very slowly. Test prop peaks faster and higher but decays a lot faster too. If you take a high enough dose of test E, it will peak about to the levels that you would have reached normally after a few weeks. At this point all you have to do is to maintain your injection schedule to keep your blood levels nearly constant.

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If this is true why wouldn't someone who is doing 1gram of test e per week do 3 grams in the first 2wks or 4grams?

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Originally Posted by roidattack

If this is true why wouldn't someone who is doing 1gram of test e per week do 3 grams in the first 2wks or 4grams?

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They certainly could. However other factors may come into play such as the higher possibility of 'test flu' and the fact that 3g of test in a week would require injecting 10+ ml of oil.

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Originally Posted by roidattack

If this is true why wouldn't someone who is doing 1gram of test e per week do 3 grams in the first 2wks or 4grams?

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What makes you think they don't? I know people who run 1g a week and the first two weeks they front load with 2 grams.

Here's a good thread on frontloading that the Similar Threads function came up with -
http://forums.steroid.com/educational-threads/125401-when-will-my-gear-kick-frontloading-explained-now-read.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maetenloch

Here's a good thread on frontloading that the Similar Threads function came up with -
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=125401

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Now Ive read something that changed my mind. Nice catch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maetenloch

I don't see how this follows. Taking a pulse of test E will result in peak blood levels within a few hours which will then decay exponentially very slowly. Test prop peaks faster and higher but decays a lot faster too. If you take a high enough dose of test E, it will peak about to the levels that you would have reached normally after a few weeks. At this point all you have to do is to maintain your injection schedule to keep your blood levels nearly constant.

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are you sure about that? it was my understanding that the enanthate ester doesn't release ANY testosterone into your system until over a week after injection. when i frontload, no matter how much, i feel absolutely NOTHING for over a week, then i wake up in the middle of the night with a raging hard on, full of energy - you can tell the moment the test "kicks in". then the rapid gains begin. it may still take another week or 2 to see the results on the scale, but this is when it all starts.

the only problem i have with frontloading is that i don't think it fully takes into consideration your bodies mechanisms to compensate for higher test levels over time. i think the "receptor degradation" theory has been debunked, but your body has other mechanisms to maintain homeostasis. you can have high levels of test, but if enough of it is bound istead of free, it won't have the same effect.

i can do 100mg of suspension at the beginning of my cycle, and it has a completely different effect than 100mg at the end of my cycle, even with theoreticly identical levels of AS in my system at both times.

I am running a gram of test E per week ,the first week I frontloaded 2250mg and by week 2 I could feel the test. And it hits you quick.

Crispyhoale,

The reason for the title of the thread was because I was having a conversation with someone at my gym who holds himself out to be an expert with AS and he had a different view towards frontloading. He was using the ramp up/ramp down approach, which was completely different from everything I have learned about, therefore I was seeking confirmation.

Sorry I did not make that clear.

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Originally Posted by tempbrit

Crispyhoale,

The reason for the title of the thread was because I was having a conversation with someone at my gym who holds himself out to be an expert with AS and he had a different view towards frontloading. He was using the ramp up/ramp down approach, which was completely different from everything I have learned about, therefore I was seeking confirmation.

Sorry I did not make that clear.

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IMHO, anybody who still likes ramping is prolly a dummy.

I agree. However, this guy is huge and is the person people in my gym seek advice from when it comes to cycling! As a Newbie myself (into week 6 of my first cycle) just double checking most everything I see and read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maetenloch

If you play with the Roid calc (http://www.come.to/roidcalc), you'll see that frontloading is real and makes a difference. Basically, by doubling up on your dosing the first week, you bring your accumulated bloodlevels to near max within a week. Otherwise it could take 3 to 4 weeks to reach this level. This is why people often refer to Test not kicking in until week 3.
Ideally you want a cycle that has a 'Devil's tower' proile i.e. a steep increase in blood levels, a long plateau, and then a sharp dropoff. You can achieve this by frontloading the first week or two, maintaining for a few weeks, and then switching to shorter-acting esters the last few weeks.

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Good answer - and that calculator is a great way to see how frontloading works...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tempbrit

Crispyhoale,

The reason for the title of the thread was because I was having a conversation with someone at my gym who holds himself out to be an expert with AS and he had a different view towards frontloading. He was using the ramp up/ramp down approach, which was completely different from everything I have learned about, therefore I was seeking confirmation.

Sorry I did not make that clear.

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Ramping is useless and shows that your friends, no matter how big, isnt informed at all about AAS. Hes prolly big because of consistant diet and training practices. I have a friend whose 5'6" 230lbs, mass monster, not too cut up but certainly no gut. huge back, legs, chest, arms, calves. Its obviouse to ppl that he's used in the past. I talk to him about cycles and ya know what he tells me? "i usu stick to 1 compound" ACK. hES RUN DBOL ONLY, FINA ONLY. So I wonder how the hell he got so huge...well he's been lifting 6days/wk and eating to grow for 10 years. Bottom line. Lol, 1 time he was telling me how he was begging his doc for a viagra script, shortly after starting fina only...big surprise there...