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I've never done Test Prop and am about to make the change. Getting older and should be easier to control water retention to keep BP is check..
My question is: Is there a version of Proprionate that can be injected just once a week or is it for ED or EOD as I've read. My buddy swears that he hits it only once a week/ And damn if he doesn't look good too......
Would like to hear from you Prop lovers out there and if what he said is true.
MJ
Prop once a week is useless due to it's short half life. If you are not willing to do daily or EOD injections, stick with a longer estered chain as prop is not what you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty Joe
it need's to be shoot ed bro maybe eod but i woulden't go past that. Also prop hurt's like a bitch
prop is test with a short ester. injecting once or twice a week would be enan or cyp.
WRT to the water issue.. People retaining less water on prop is not true.. If you are administering PROP EOD or 3X weekly and keeping your blood levels steady then you will retain the same amount of water on Prop as you would on enanthate, Cypionate, Decanonate, Sustan, etc.... Because it's not the esters that cause water retention, it is Testosterone that causes water retention.. and again.. the testosterone molecule is exactly the same in all of the above mentioned forms of testosterone.. the only difference is the ester which determines how quickly the testosterone is released into the blood stream and is not in any way related to the amount of water that the body chooses to store...
So basicly, if you think you are retaining less water on prop you are either not keeping steady and consistant blood levels or the "reduced" water weight is simply in your head...
Thanks Bruthas....
Do you have any idea how many people are going to argue and disagree with that statement you made from their own personal experience! IT is obviously not your experience to gain less water on prop but hundreds will tell you otherwise from their own personal experience! You need to understand everyone is different and you are wrong with that statement!Quote:
Originally Posted by phreezer
How am I wrong???
I'm not trying to sound smug.. but I do have chemistry on my side... the statement that water retention is less on one testosterone over another is based on nothing more than opinnion, where my statement on the other hand is supported by science. Argue all you want, it doesn't change the fact that you are incorrect in your assumption that prop causes less water retention...
Like I said above it is not the ester that is indicative of water retention, it is testosterone.. which is identical in all administered mediums.
Like it or not.. Test is test.
Than you do a poll and we will see how correct your science is! Make one and I gurantee that the majority of people will say prop makes em hold less water whether your science agrees or not!
Gotta agree...I hold way less water on prop. Isn't psychological eaither as my wife can tell by my face which test I am on...prop or E.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark956101957
Poll nothing.. it doesn't matter..
Look, if you take Prop and keep blood levels consistant.... then you will retain water.. if you're not retaining water on test, then you are test levels are dipping low...I'm sorry but no matter how you slice it edema is a side effect testosterone...not of the esters...I don't know what to do to get it through your head..
Quote:
Originally Posted by phreezer
He's right dude get over it! :0piss:
why prop less water retention gives to many people is very simple, i think...
Most people who uses testprop are on a 'cutting cycle', they chose testprop because they often stack it with things like trenA, winny...The fact that u retain less water while u are on a cutting-diet is obvious i think...
BTW i always use prop, when i bulk or cut doesnt matter, i just love testprop...greetz
Yes, test is test. But water retention is an estrogen related side effect. Short prop ester ensures more consistant blood levels than enan or cyp, and therefore a smaller estrogen flux. Are you telling me that menstruating women hold water because of their high test count?Quote:
Originally Posted by phreezer
-peace
So is water retention due to estrogen or estrogen flux? Those are two different drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan13
I don't know - I'm jsut asking the question.
I am aware that most of the water retention is because of testosterone converting into estrogen... Believe me, I have had this conversation with Swale as he and I moderate Meso together... Swale is an HRT specialist and one of the top HRT doctors in the world. Trust me, I didn't just pull this statement out of my ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan13
Test is test bro.. it doesn't matter about the ester.. and in truth.. HRT doctors don't like Prop because it can not keep blood levels consistant.. that is why HRT doctors prefer cyp and enanthate for administering hormone replacement therapy..
With propionate, the reason androgenic side effects seem somewhat less pronounced than with the other testosterones, is simply due to the fact that blood levels do not build up as high because users have difficulty maintaining steady and consistant blood levels..
Do you really believe that the ester attatched to the Anabolic compound can somehow be indicitve of the body retaining water?? This is because of testosterone... or more precisly as was reported above.. because of increased amount of estrogen in the body that is converted from having higher testosterone levels in the body.. which will come from any form of administered testosterone regardless of the ester.
i am going to have to back phreezer on this one
why everything have to be so complex :(
Isnt water retention caused by testosterone aromatising so with Test prop the Test is actually in your system less time so there is not as much time for it aromatise leading to less water retention. I could be wrong
i heard that before...Quote:
Originally Posted by cal565
it would if you didn't keep your blood levels consistant.. but if you administer prop enough to keep your blood levels high.. then it will still aromotize into estrogen...Quote:
Originally Posted by cal565
It's not that complex bro.. that's the thing, people make it more complex than they need to.... Shit, in all honesty, the Anabolic part is easy.. it's the training and the diet that's the complicated part... Too many people place too much emphasis on the AAS..and not enough on their training and diet...Quote:
Originally Posted by taiboxa
heh diet is my second language... so why do people puff up so much on Enth and Cyp then as compared to Prop .. Lamens terms plzQuote:
Originally Posted by phreezer
Estrogen flux associated with enan and cyp is at a higher degree than with prop. Estrogen flux is what gives people the sides associated with estrogen. Prop is consistent (ED injections) as compared to 1 or 2 times a week with cyp/enan. This is why everyone is always saying to increase frequency of injections with many compounds = stable blood levels of test = stable blood levels of estrogen. And the reason why HRT docs use enan and cyp id due to its user friendly application. HRT patients would be turned off to ED or EOD injects of prop.Quote:
Originally Posted by taiboxa
aye thats what i was thinking sweeet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan13
Wow, this thread sure grew some legs. I love and appreciate everyones passion to help out!
MJ
But prop has a much shorter half life than cyp/enan. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan13
Look... if you injected cyp or enanthate 75mg/ED you would see, after loading, the same response as to 75mg/ED prop. When you shoot 250 to 400mg cyp or E in one shot, even though it is a long ester, there will still be a good spike in test levels. Graphs have been posted that bear this out. The spike in test levels far and above normal physiological levels is what really feeds the aromatization process. Try shooting 250mg prop 2x/week for a couple of weeks... you will be a veritable estrogen factory for several hours after the initial rush of breakdown of the propionate ester.
Test IS test... the big difference is how the various esters are typically used.
Do you think it might be worth trying 75mg ED of Test-E instead of 75mg ED of Test-P since it is suppossed to be less painful?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Baron
Thanks
Yeah, but remember, it takes about 4 weeks to load with test E. It would "kick in" about the same time as if you were shooting 2x/week. The prop will have an effect much sooner due to the short ester and short half-life. Frankly, I would like to see someone actually try that and post their results. Might be worthwhile, yeah, if you were also doing tren or winny or some other AAS that needs to be shot ED.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phreezer
On paper it does make sense what you're saying and I completely understand your point but by my own experiances and my friends I have to say I respectfully disagree with you bro :unsure:
I've used Test Enanthate, Prop and Suspension and shot them all more frequently than most people to maintain stable hormone levels, for Enanthate I shoot EOD (yes thats right I shoot Test E EOD to cut down on volume per shot and an HRT doc on another board I frequent said there is some difference in terms of sides, I don't mind shots so I do it), for Prop I shoot ED and for Suspension I shoot 3xED. I don't think you can get much more stable than that wouldn't you agree? And with Test, in my experiance, the shorter the ester is the less water I retain, its visually very obvious and it shows up as more BF.
By far the best example is NPP vs Deca(noate), very very little water rentention with NPP but bloating like a beachball with Deca. Also keep in mind my diet does not change, I never cut, I'm extremely ecto so I've basicly been bulking since day 1 of bb'ing and my daily diet has little variation, no cardio at all either, water intake doesn't change...
I can think of a couple exceptions however, EQ vs Bold base, neither retains much water if any, same goes for Tren A vs Tren E or Masteron E vs Masteron Prop, but for Tren and Masteron I would guess the reason to be their extremely androgenic nature, probably not so much for the EQ though?... I can't explain it, just my own experiance leads me to believe shorter esters retain less water with some gear.
wow penny that's a mouth full :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-Cent
Sorry bro I just took my ADD meds to help me thru this damn paperwork :lol: got a bit carried away thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Thegr8One
Oh, and back to the bloating... nolva will help, whatever test you use.