1st cycle

**dragon69** · 05-16-2005, 02:42 AM

experienced powerlifter, good natural size already (most users don't believe I haven't used). I want to decrease my fat significantly and build some extra muscle too, without getting into a heavy cycle.

I already have some winstrol tabs I plan to use (50mgs ED) and want to know what to use with them. I am initially thinking sustanon 250 due to decreased side effects, but some here I have read don't think sustanon is any better and I wonder if I should use cypionate instead (also less $). I was initially thinking about 200mg/week, but my sense from these posts here is most will direct me to 600mg (don't think I'd go over 400 1st time).

I am also wondering if equipoise would be a good choice here in combo with these 2 and could use it like 50mg/ED Winnie, 200mg/week EQ, 200mg/week test (either sus or cyp).

Whatcha think here....combo WD/EQ/test or WD/2x test? sus or cyp? TIA

**Thegr8One** · 05-16-2005, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by dragon69

experienced powerlifter, good natural size already (most users don't believe I haven't used). I want to decrease my fat significantly and build some extra muscle too, without getting into a heavy cycle.

I already have some winstrol tabs I plan to use (50mgs ED) and want to know what to use with them. I am initially thinking sustanon 250 due to decreased side effects, but some here I have read don't think sustanon is any better and I wonder if I should use cypionate instead (also less $). I was initially thinking about 200mg/week, but my sense from these posts here is most will direct me to 600mg (don't think I'd go over 400 1st time).

I am also wondering if equipoise would be a good choice here in combo with these 2 and could use it like 50mg/ED Winnie, 200mg/week EQ, 200mg/week test (either sus or cyp).

Whatcha think here....combo WD/EQ/test or WD/2x test? sus or cyp? TIA

wk1-12 600mg test cyp (injected twice weekly)
wk 1-11 600mg eq (injected along side the cyp)
wk4-12 50mg win ed
nolva @ 10mg ed through out cycle
clomid pct
you are

**dragon69** · 05-16-2005, 01:15 PM

thank you for your reply

1. I wouldn't do more than 400mg EQ as I've researched it and found many sources that indicate at 400mg+ is when you get sides.

2. With test 2x weekly at 600mg, is that 1.5ml each time then?

3. Thinking about running test cyp at 200mg first week or two to see how I react to it since it's my first and I'm worried about it, 400mg from there and maybe 600mg for a few weeks in the middle then taper off. At either 400 or 600 is it better in 1 shot or 2x/week?

4. Also would I be better off waiting a few weeks with the winstrol and adding it later so I can finish with it for a couple weeks kind of like a jump started PCT? Could the winnie be used as a bridge in this case?
See I'm not real clear on this, I originally thought winnie/test from the onset then finish with test after I run out of tabs, but I do wonder if it would be usefull to get the injectables into me first, harden the last 4 weeks with winnie and carry it 2-3 weeks (or more) or so past the test so there's less crash after and therefore an easier recovery (will use other PCT too). Am I wrong?

thanks guys for all the info, this site helps a lot of people not screw themselves up real bad

**FrkyBgStok** · 05-16-2005, 01:25 PM

do not taper. why not just run test enan or cyp at 500mg/week for a first cycle. nolva on hand and PCT 2 weeks after last test e injection. I would strongly recommend ONLY this for a first cycle

**BUYLONGTERM** · 05-16-2005, 01:44 PM

Definitely do NOT TAPER, and you don't need to run anything that high. Also, in order to get the most out of EQ, you need to run it for at least 12 weeks. Here is a perfect cycle.

Weeks 1-13 Test Cyp 500mg (250 Mon., 250mg Thurs)
Weeks 1-12 EQ 400mg (200mg Mon 200mg on Thur, add it in same syring with Test)
Nolva 10mg ED
L. Dex .25mg ED
PCT - 2 weeks after last test injection

BTW, you can get sides at even lower doses...Everyone is different. But, 400mg of EQ is plenty for your first time

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-16-2005, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by buylongterm

Definitely do NOT TAPER, and you don't need to run anything that high. Also, in order to get the most out of EQ, you need to run it for at least 12 weeks. Here is a perfect cycle.

Weeks 1-13 Test Cyp 500mg (250 Mon., 250mg Thurs)
Weeks 1-12 EQ 400mg (200mg Mon 200mg on Thur, add it in same syring with Test)
Nolva 10mg ED
L. Dex .25mg ED
PCT - 2 weeks after last test injection

BTW, you can get sides at even lower doses...Everyone is different. But, 400mg of EQ is plenty for your first time

add in the winny if you want from weeks 50 mg ed from weeks 4 or 5 to week 12.

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-16-2005, 01:53 PM

question, though, why doesn't anyone taper off at the end and reduce there test? wouldn't it help to start your natural test production to start when done, instesd of droping from a gram a week to zero?

**dragon69** · 05-16-2005, 01:58 PM

can you guys explain the DO NOT TAPER thing? I need to know why.
Definately will go with cyp now, likely around 400 or 500.
what is "L. Dex .25mg"? Not familiar with that.
I did want to use the winstrol as I need to get rid of some stubborn fat, I suppose I could save for later though. If I did should it be in a later cycle or like late in the cycle like I mentioned?

**Swifto** · 05-16-2005, 01:59 PM

Stick to one compound for a 1st cycle, no need for the EQ, keep it for future cycles, it will only complicate things. Keep it simple and stick to Test only.

**Swifto** · 05-16-2005, 02:01 PM

"DO NOT TAPER" means, do not increase/decrease the dosage of the AS through-out the duration of the cycle. It will only cause unstable blood levels.

Keep the dosage constant and sides to a minimum.

**dragon69** · 05-16-2005, 02:13 PM

unstable levels? Wouldn't it be easier to recover when you stop?

**FrkyBgStok** · 05-16-2005, 02:23 PM

thats what PCT is for. what are you running for PCT??

**dragon69** · 05-16-2005, 02:24 PM

I suppose natural test will be suppressed at any dose so why not? Still think recovery would be harder and longer though.
gotta leave.....will read all posts tonight then and respond. Thanks all for your help

**dragon69** · 05-16-2005, 02:30 PM

was thinking of nov 20mg and clomid 50mg ED for 2 weeks. Have contemplated using HCG instead of clomid.
Could I use the winstrol right after the test and continue from there and use the PCT after the winstrol or does it not work like that?
Till tonight then.....

***Doc.Sust*** · 05-16-2005, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by dragon69

I suppose natural test will be suppressed at any dose so why not? Still think recovery would be harder and longer though.
gotta leave.....will read all posts tonight then and respond. Thanks all for your help

i would think that as well, it makes sense, even with pct, wouldn't you reach normal test levels sooner by tapering off? anyone?

**FrkyBgStok** · 05-16-2005, 02:50 PM

2 weeks of PCT is not enough, go at least 3 weeks, and don't switch clomid for HCG .

**Swifto** · 05-16-2005, 03:06 PM

Correct PCT should consist of:

wk 1-2 Clomid 100mg/ED
wk 2-4 Clomid 50mg/ED
wk 1-4 Nolva 20mg/ED
wk 1-4 Creatine 5g/ED
wk 1-4 Tribulas 4g/ED
wk 1-4 L-Glutamine 10mg/ED

MultiVitimins and 1000mg/ED should also be included with Omega-3's and a Zinc and Magnesium supplement.

**dragon69** · 05-17-2005, 01:42 AM

1. why not HCG ?
2. I was wondering if it would be a good idea link 2 shorter cycles. Like go 8 weeks, 4 weeks of PCT then another 8 weeks (pct again of course). That way it's like staying on for 20 weeks without the heavier sides that would come more towards the end of a cycle.
3. I'll likely have a 10ml test, so 200mg/ml. How should I get it to 500mg? Maybe 400mg is adequate being my first time?

**dragon69** · 05-17-2005, 09:56 AM

any opinions?

**taiboxa** · 05-17-2005, 09:59 AM

hcg is better used during a long cycle and right before pct
like
i use it every 7th week for 5 days ED @500-750mg and then im going to run it @750mg ED for the last 10days and end it 4 days before i pop my first clomid.
but im also runnin a 30wkr.

**Booz** · 05-17-2005, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by buylongterm

Definitely do NOT TAPER, and you don't need to run anything that high. Also, in order to get the most out of EQ, you need to run it for at least 12 weeks. Here is a perfect cycle.

Weeks 1-13 Test Cyp 500mg (250 Mon., 250mg Thurs)
Weeks 1-12 EQ 400mg (200mg Mon 200mg on Thur, add it in same syring with Test)
Nolva 10mg ED
L. Dex .25mg ED
PCT - 2 weeks after last test injection

BTW, you can get sides at even lower doses...Everyone is different. But, 400mg of EQ is plenty for your first time

i agree with this cycle with the eq stoppin 1 week b4 the test this way your pct will line up nicely,start the pct 18days after last shot if cyp,but as its yor 1st cycle i would recomend you only doin the cyp 10-12 weeks.

**dragon69** · 05-17-2005, 10:15 AM

any comments on questions 2 & 3?

**dragon69** · 05-17-2005, 10:17 AM

any opinions on questions 2&3 ?

**taiboxa** · 05-17-2005, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by dragon69

2. With test 2x weekly at 600mg, is that 1.5ml each time then?
Usually its test 250mg/ML which means if you want to run 500mg a week thats 1cc every 3.5days if you want to do 600mg/wk then you have to use 1.2cc every 3.5 days which is not as cool but OK

3. Thinking about running test cyp at 200mg first week or two to see how I react to it since it's my first and I'm worried about it, 400mg from there and maybe 600mg for a few weeks in the middle then taper off. At either 400 or 600 is it better in 1 shot or 2x/week?
All this fluctuating is going to make u break out and have all sorts of neet sides...

anyways RESEARCH before you poke your self for God's sake...

**dragon69** · 05-17-2005, 10:32 AM

I meant these;

2. I was wondering if it would be a good idea link 2 shorter cycles. Like go 8 weeks, 4 weeks of PCT then another 8 weeks (pct again of course). That way it's like staying on for 20 weeks without the heavier sides that would come more towards the end of a cycle.
3. I'll likely have a 10ml test, so 200mg/ml. How should I get it to 500mg? Maybe 400mg is adequate being my first time?

**taiboxa** · 05-17-2005, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by dragon69

I meant these;

2. I was wondering if it would be a good idea link 2 shorter cycles. Like go 8 weeks, 4 weeks of PCT then another 8 weeks (pct again of course). That way it's like staying on for 20 weeks without the heavier sides that would come more towards the end of a cycle.
actualy thats harder on the body, much harder, recovery is a bitch btw...
3. I'll likely have a 10ml test, so 200mg/ml. How should I get it to 500mg? Maybe 400mg is adequate being my first time?
well you would use 1.25cc's every 3.5 days thats how.

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