Scizophrenia???

**Devourer** · 01-05-2004, 07:51 PM

does anyone know if steroids aggravate scizhophrenia? or can acclereate the onset of it?

**BASK8KACE** · 01-05-2004, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by anadrol devourer

does anyone know if steroids aggravate scizhophrenia? or can acclereate the onset of it?

A second cousin of mine killed his girlfriend and himself. He had been taking steroids for several months (possibly for several years). He had become HUGE very quickly and still no one but me (and I was VERY young at the time) ever suspected anything. All of his friends were huge too. He had never had any problems with violence, and was normally one of the most serene people I've known.

The media obviously exaggerates such cases. But this was real. This was family. SOME of what the hyped-up media shouts has a bit of truth in it.

Yes, steroids can make manifest psychotic behavior in a latent schizophrenic.

Here's an excerpt from the following link (the numbers reference footnotes, which are not listed here):
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/.../corrigan.html

The following is from an article published by The Medical Journal of Australia, written by Brian Corrigan , AM, FRACP, FACRM, Consultant Physician of the Institute of Sports Medicine, Concord Hospital, Sydney.

Several psychiatric disorders have been reported in association with anabolic steroid use since the first case was described in 1980. 38,39 The full list includes schizophrenia, 38 hypomania and mania, 40 delirium, 41 depression, 42 suicide, 10,28,43 and paranoia. 44
In the first reported case of anabolic steroid -related psychiatric disorder, in 1980, a 17-year-old male body builder developed acute schizophrenia when taking methandienone; he recovered on stopping the drug, but relapsed when he took it again. 38 In 1992, Freinhar and Alvarez 40 noted that referring doctors "often" commented on mood changes accompanying anabolic steroid therapy, and described a 27-year-old body builder with hypomania who was taking oxandrolone. He recovered on withdrawal of the drug but had a second attack when taking oxymetholone. A toxic confusional state with choreiform movements occurred in another patient taking 200-300 mg a day of oxymetholone; the condition improved on drug withdrawal. 41

Perry et al. studied 20 weight lifters taking anabolic steroids and 20 controls using a self-administered questionnaire and an interview. 45 The questionnaire showed an increase in psychotic features in the users, including paranoid thoughts, depression, increased hostility and aggression.

Pope and Katz in 1987 reported two cases of psychosis in anabolic steroid users, 46 and then, in 1988, 41 cases (39 men) with a wide range of psychiatric problems. 47 This study was widely criticised because it was not a controlled, prospective trial and because of its selection of subjects. In 1994, they rectified this with a controlled study of 88 athletes who used anabolic steroids and 68 controls. 48 The Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-III-R was used for diagnosis; 25% showed evidence of drug dependence and 23% hypomania, mania or depression. Aggression or violence "often" accompanied hypomanic or manic episodes. The authors also suggested that steroid users are most vulnerable to major depressive episodes during the first three months after discontinuing anabolic steroid use.

Depression has been mentioned previously in relation to drug withdrawal and dependence. Testosterone was formerly used to treat depression, but it is now known to cause it. 49 Suicide may also be a problem with either anabolic steroid drug dependence or after drug withdrawal (especially with sudden withdrawal). It is not often reported in medical journals, but may be reported in the press. Brower et al. reported a body builder who had suicidal thoughts of crashing his car, and warned of the dangers of anabolic steroids and suicide. 32

A different view of anabolic steroid complications was taken by Dimeft and Malone: 50 in 31 current users, 45 previous users and 88 non-users, they found psychiatric diagnoses to be more common in previous users, suggesting that psychiatric disorder may either predispose a person to, or result from, anabolic steroid use.

There is one study which gives a contrary view. Bahrke et al., 51 using two valid psychometric inventories, studied 50 men (12 current steroid users, 14 previous users, and 24 non-users) and concluded that users taking an average daily dose of 45 mg showed minimal psychiatric effects.

In conclusion, this brief review highlights some of the psychological problems encountered with anabolic steroid use. It does not appear that these problems are very common, but future research will show how much disability they cause.

**Devourer** · 01-05-2004, 08:11 PM

so i really am going crazy???

**Devourer** · 01-05-2004, 08:13 PM

my family has a history of severe scizhophrenia and when i was way younger i was diagnosed bi polar schizo affective something. but it was mild. recently ive been losing it though? my grandma is certifiable and my ma is losing it by the day and i can almost feel myself slipping.

**BASK8KACE** · 01-05-2004, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by anadrol devourer

so i really am going crazy???

You're not going crazy.

Some people believe schizophrenia automatically means split personalities, which is not quite correct.

If you're starting to exibit signs of schizophrenia such as paranoia, or other signs of mental disturbance such as deep depression, then you should reconsider using AS--really you should just STOP using AS and seek professional help.

**BASK8KACE** · 01-05-2004, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by anadrol devourer

my family has a history of severe scizhophrenia and when i was way younger i was diagnosed bi polar schizo affective something. but it was mild. recently ive been losing it though? my grandma is certifiable and my ma is losing it by the day and i can almost feel myself slipping.

I just read this (above).

YOU SHOULD NOT USE STEROIDS . PERIOD.

Steroids will cause changes in your body chemistry which can aggravate things that may otherwise remain latent. If you have a history of such psychological disorders, you should do yourself a favor and stay away from things which can aggrevate it.

**Devourer** · 01-05-2004, 08:18 PM

ive been fine until very recently. and im not out to kill everyone. i know im out there but i have great control. you would never know i was crazy if you met me. only my close friends and you guys now know this stuff.

**johnsomebody** · 01-05-2004, 08:21 PM

Wow, there's as good a reason as I've seen in a long time to lay off gear, at least for a while. There's no point in improving your physique at the expense of your brain, if you feel gear is causing you problems.

And excellent article Bask8case!!

**BASK8KACE** · 01-05-2004, 08:22 PM

I cannot stress to you enough how important it is that you do not take chances with this.

This is not something you shove under the table and just hope will dissappear. You could end up causing yourself and others harm.

I truly hope no one suggests to you to "just go for it." That would be unbelievably terrible advice.

You should not even play around with low-doses. Just focus on becoming the best you can be as a natural.

This is obviously striking a nerve in me because I lost a family member this way.

**Doc M** · 01-05-2004, 08:51 PM

You are not "crazy"..But it does sound like you have a high propensity to suffer from this disorder..I would STRONGLY suggest you stop all AS use until you can get into a good Psychiatrist that can shed some light on your stage of illness..Schizophrenia can have dire consequences if it is left untreated..You can't ignore this problem..It is much better to be proactive with this..Please listen to this advice..I would hate to see something bad happen to you or your family..

Doc M

**johnsomebody** · 01-05-2004, 10:00 PM

For what it's worth there's a good article on current drug treatments for schizophrenia in the latest Scientific American. It's interesting because it explains the different types and how they respond to medication.

I hate to chime in with "seek professional help" since that's a phrase that has a similar emotional feel to "get lost" sometimes, even if it's not meant that way. But if you've got it in your family and you feel you're having a potential problem with it you should certainly get a relationship with a professional, if you don't have one already. He or she would be able to tell you if you're really losing it or not or in danger of it. It's reasonable to be concerned about the possiblity of any illness that has a genetic component that's in your immediate family.

By the way, the article gets into the genetic probabilities a little as well. If I recall correctly they exist but aren't that strong.

**toolman** · 01-05-2004, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by johnsomebody

I hate to chime in with "seek professional help" since that's a phrase that has a similar emotional feel to "get lost" sometimes, even if it's not meant that way. But if you've got it in your family and you feel you're having a potential problem with it you should certainly get a relationship with a professional, if you don't have one already. He or she would be able to tell you if you're really losing it or not. I'd have anxieties about it too if it were in my family.

I agree. Ask your gp or ask around for a good psychiatrist. Start working with him and tell him everything. Don't hold anything back as it will only delay positive results. If your asking this question, you know something isn't right. The best of luck bro!

**johnsomebody** · 01-05-2004, 10:23 PM

Besides, you're probably fine -it would just do you a lot of good to get checked out and know for sure. I was amazed at how they test for it now from reading the article -none of that "do wanna kill your daddy?" nonsense.

**Devourer** · 01-06-2004, 04:32 AM

ive seen all the docs and they just give me medicine i dont take. the antidepressants make me feel nothing and i get sexual dysfunction like a mofo on them. then they try and pump me full of benzos to calm me down or whatever. i wont take the benzos because i cant stop eating them once i start. i dont try talking to people about this sh it because people always think im joking. only the people closest to me know. its just that lately they've been noticing ive been acting different?

**Ntpadude** · 01-06-2004, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by anadrol devourer

my family has a history of severe scizhophrenia and when i was way younger i was diagnosed bi polar schizo affective something. but it was mild. recently ive been losing it though? my grandma is certifiable and my ma is losing it by the day and i can almost feel myself slipping.

I believe one of the defining things of scizhophrenia is you hear voices that arent there, see hallucinations, etc. Scizo's also freakout in a bad way if they take hallucinagens like LSD, mushrooms, cacti, etc.

**johnsomebody** · 01-06-2004, 11:02 AM

Are you on gear right now?

I know how you feel about the drug thing though -it seems like most docs just want to throw drugs at people and hope they go away, especiallly for this kind of thing. And if something's not working for you, I don't blame you at all for not taking it. Wish I could offer advice but I'm not at all qualified to do much more than wish you well.

**Devourer** · 01-06-2004, 06:25 PM

yeah im just in the last weeks of my cycle

maybe the voices will go away afterwards????

**johnsomebody** · 01-06-2004, 06:49 PM

Omigod, do you really have voices?? That is serious stuff. I sure hope it clears up for you.

I suppose you've already done a lot of research into it but I know that there are more meds out there than what you've mentioned. It may not be big news but that article I mentioned in SA goes into all the latest stuff.

**Devourer** · 01-06-2004, 07:10 PM

voices not really. i just hear **** that isnt there? paranoia? i avoid the funny looks if i just dont respond

**johnsomebody** · 01-06-2004, 07:16 PM

Sad thing about schizophrenia, if that's what you've got, is they're only just beginning to figure out what the cause is physiologically, from what I'm reading. At least they're not trying to blame it on repressed sexuality or suchlike nonsense any more. There are clear physiological markers in the brain.

**Devourer** · 01-06-2004, 07:19 PM

repressed sexuality??? man ive got it worse then i thought. i can deal with telling myself to shutup. but are you talking about latent repressed homosexual feelings? is that why im a whore??? sorry im MANIC!

**johnsomebody** · 01-06-2004, 07:26 PM

I meant that they aren't looking for a Freudian explanation any more but for a physiological one.

**Ambulance** · 01-06-2004, 07:35 PM

Therapy is a huge role in it. I have 2 friends who suffer from this who have had dramatic improvement with a GOOD therapist.

**darmadoc** · 01-06-2004, 10:40 PM

True schizophrenia has been shown to be almost certainly chemical in nature. Thus, while therapy may have a role, drug therapy is the mainstay of treatment. If,AD, you really are telling us what is going on, I'd suggest you stop your cycle and talk to your doctor. If he gives you the bull**** you have described, call a mental health hot line, or got to an emergency center. This has the potential to get a lot worse. You may end up endangering yourself physically, emotionally or financially; you may do the same to your loved ones.

Good luck.

**Toenail Juice Z** · 04-14-2004, 10:03 AM

My dads got schizophrenia, and I myself have obsessions and deep depression. All I know is that if you treat it at an early stage with medication, it will never get worse. Try risperdal & dicipal

**BWhitaker** · 04-14-2004, 02:33 PM

Frankly, this is a physiological problem. The only way a therapist is going to help is by educating, helping them deal with the disorder, helping with mood, responsible for seeing changes in the person. However, drugs are what helps it. There are so many drugs (neurolyptics and atypical neurolyptics) that work but the work for some and not for others and you have to experiment. IT IS VERY SERIOUS AND IF YOU IGNORE IT IT WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE.

**TexGuy23** · 04-14-2004, 02:46 PM

Being a Psychology major for more than 3 years i speak with some authority on the subject. As you probably have heard schizophrenia strikes males and females equally in percentage. However, the age where the disease first strikes differs greatly. Males are most likely to develop the disease at 18-22 years of age, where females develop the disease after 25 years of age. Why? A theory that has been largely accepted is that estrogen on woman works as
a neuro protective agent, thus, delaying the progress of the illness. Also Testosterone , has been shown to exarcebate psychiatric symptoms in males, such a depression, anxiety and most possibly psychosis. There has been some documented cases where psychosis was triggered after the administration of testosterone. I personally had an experience with paranoia after long term use of ephedra. If you are worried about developing psychosis or schizophrenia as a result of steroid use , I would consider two options:
1) Do not use steroids
2) Use steroids along with anti psychotic medication. There are some preety marvelous new medications for schizophrenia out there with very very few side effects. Do a search on "Abilify", "Risperdal" and "Geodon" and see what you think. Neuropletics like those 3 mentioned above have been shown to not only getting rid of psychotic symptoms but preventing relapses in up to 80% of patients. As far as I know, there are no interectiona between gear and anti -psychotics. I once read a story about a proffessional bodybuilder who developed schizophrenia in his late 30's. He was on anti psychotic medication and still competing as far as I know, which makes me think he still juices once in a while.

Just my 2 cents!

**BWhitaker** · 04-14-2004, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by TexGuy23

Being a Psychology major for more than 3 years i speak with some authority on the subject. As you probably have heard schizophrenia strikes males and females equally in percentage. However, the age where the disease first strikes differs greatly. Males are most likely to develop the disease at 18-22 years of age, where females develop the disease after 25 years of age. Why? A theory that has been largely accepted is that estrogen on woman works as
a neuro protective agent, thus, delaying the progress of the illness. Also Testosterone , has been shown to exarcebate psychiatric symptoms in males, such a depression, anxiety and most possibly psychosis. There has been some documented cases where psychosis was triggered after the administration of testosterone. I personally had an experience with paranoia after long term use of ephedra. If you are worried about developing psychosis or schizophrenia as a result of steroid use , I would consider two options:
1) Do not use steroids
2) Use steroids along with anti psychotic medication. There are some preety marvelous new medications for schizophrenia out there with very very few side effects. Do a search on "Abilify", "Risperdal" and "Geodon" and see what you think. Neuropletics like those 3 mentioned above have been shown to not only getting rid of psychotic symptoms but preventing relapses in up to 80% of patients. As far as I know, there are no interectiona between gear and anti -psychotics. I once read a story about a proffessional bodybuilder who developed schizophrenia in his late 30's. He was on anti psychotic medication and still competing as far as I know, which makes me think he still juices once in a while.

Just my 2 cents!

Im in the process of my psych major.

**BWhitaker** · 04-14-2004, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by anadrol devourer

ive seen all the docs and they just give me medicine i dont take. the antidepressants make me feel nothing and i get sexual dysfunction like a mofo on them.

Have you looked into wellbutrin. It is an addition to the anit-depressent medication that works differently than your typical SSRI and it has no sexual side effects.

**TexGuy23** · 04-14-2004, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by anadrol devourer

repressed sexuality??? man ive got it worse then i thought. i can deal with telling myself to shutup. but are you talking about latent repressed homosexual feelings? is that why im a whore??? sorry im MANIC!

I also would like to add that psychological causes for schizophrenia have been largely discredited among experts. In the past Freud developed a theory that paranoia was a result of repressed homosexual feelings, and that by letting your homosexual urges to get out, your paranoia would stop. Every shrink today knows that this bull, since like the general population, the majority of schizophrenics are str8. Other theories include abuse during childhood as well as having an absent mother. Today, the vast majority of the psychiatric comunity agrees that sz is a brain disease, caused by a disregulation (over production) of the neurotransmitter "dopamine" in the brain. Drugs for sz work by reducing the amount of dopamine in the brain, thus getting rid of psychotic symptoms. PSYCHOTHERAPY does not work for sz, since as i said, it is not caused by psychological trauma or any other random shi**. Once again, if you are going to juice, I strongly suggest you to take anti psychotic medication as a precaution.

**BIGCDAWG** · 04-14-2004, 05:47 PM

I believe this is on the same subject but, i swear i always think people are "mean mugging" me or staring at me constantly with a bad look. Either when i am driving or just standing around. I sometimes will get a bad feeling sometimes with people and think they want to either fight or hurt me. Does this happen to anyone else? or is this just me?

**BlocRoc** · 04-14-2004, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by backer123

Have you looked into wellbutrin. It is an addition to the anit-depressent medication that works differently than your typical SSRI and it has no sexual side effects.

Wellbutrin is definitely the way to go if you have concerns over the sexual side effects. I was on zoloft for a while, after my fiancee and I broke up, and I couldnt deal with the sexual side effects. Once I switched over to wellbutrin, I was able to perform, which is a big difference, especially when you are already depressed, and on top of that cant get hard when you get a chance at sex...

I dont know much about wellbutrin-xl, the new version, but the standard one worked great for me, and I was on for almost a year.

Seriously, stop the cycle and have this issue addressed first!

L8 and be safe bro!

**2timer** · 04-14-2004, 09:27 PM

I feel increased paranoia and depression. but I think with the stuff being iligal and stuff it is just a guilty feeling. and my depression has to do with my break up. but on clomid oh felt like ****. no motivation. look at my profile.
hey bro if you really feel like that then you should think it through! is it worth it? if it is then go ahead and if not then don't you only have one short life. living like a sheep sometimes has its advantages!

**2timer** · 04-14-2004, 09:36 PM

does your doctor give you if you walk in ask for it? where do you get them?

**beefydragon** · 04-14-2004, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by TexGuy23

I also would like to add that psychological causes for schizophrenia have been largely discredited among experts. In the past Freud developed a theory that paranoia was a result of repressed homosexual feelings, and that by letting your homosexual urges to get out, your paranoia would stop. Every shrink today knows that this bull, since like the general population, the majority of schizophrenics are str8. Other theories include abuse during childhood as well as having an absent mother. Today, the vast majority of the psychiatric comunity agrees that sz is a brain disease, caused by a disregulation (over production) of the neurotransmitter "dopamine" in the brain. Drugs for sz work by reducing the amount of dopamine in the brain, thus getting rid of psychotic symptoms. PSYCHOTHERAPY does not work for sz, since as i said, it is not caused by psychological trauma or any other random shi**. Once again, if you are going to juice, I strongly suggest you to take anti psychotic medication as a precaution.

Ahh, is that what this is?!?

No wonder I get depressed everytime I'm in the locker room full of men!

j/k!
Very true, if Schizo is an issue with repressed homosexuality, then that means I probably would have killed my whole family when I was younger...

Bro, go see a good psychiatrist and he should be able to help you. Stop the roids for now and regroup!

**BWhitaker** · 04-14-2004, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by 2timer

does your doctor give you if you walk in ask for it? where do you get them?

what are u referring to. If it is wellbutrin then you need a script from a doc or psychiatrist.

**2timer** · 04-14-2004, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by backer123

what are u referring to. If it is wellbutrin then you need a script from a doc or psychiatrist.

yep how do I get it form the doc? what should I tell the doc?

**okiecocker** · 04-15-2004, 02:36 AM

2Timer,

You shouldn't be making up something to your doc just to get the specific meds you want. The whole "what should I tell the doc" suggests this. Drug seekers can quickly be labeled... I'm not referring to u... was just meaning that if your trying to get a specific medication alot of the times you'll get busted. You'd be suprised how often we catch folks. Even just for anti-d's. Just tell the Doc exactly what your feeling... and exactly what your on, etc.! This is the only way for your doc to make an informed decision.

**2timer** · 04-15-2004, 11:26 AM

yeh,
have you ever heard of " don't take steroids son it is bad for you" response but I know what I am doing" reply I can not help you with steroids son." and no I am not who you think I am. I do get mad depression on clomid and coming off cycle tho. everyone advices me to get anti-dep...if you have problem with me getting prescription for depression then you have problems with anyone that seeks drugs to feel better. no flame bro. my question is how should I tell my doc that I am on steroids and I need anti-dep.....there must be some tricks to use!

**TexGuy23** · 04-15-2004, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by 2timer

yeh,
have you ever heard of " don't take steroids son it is bad for you" response but I know what I am doing" reply I can not help you with steroids son." and no I am not who you think I am. I do get mad depression on clomid and coming off cycle tho. everyone advices me to get anti-dep...if you have problem with me getting prescription for depression then you have problems with anyone that seeks drugs to feel better. no flame bro. my question is how should I tell my doc that I am on steroids and I need anti-dep.....there must be some tricks to use!

I would just go to a shink and say you are feeling really low for absolutely no reason and most likely he will prescribe you a med. He will probably start with an SSRI, but maybe if you bring up the sexual side effects of SSRI's , he might as well give you welbutrin. I personally never had sexual sides with Zoloft, I am on it for 2 years and I always manage to get my boy up!