Thread: Sustanon Opinions and PCT
06-01-2005, 11:00 PM #1
Sustanon Opinions and PCT
I want to run Sustanon alone. Its a 30 cc vial so its plenty! Anyway, do most of you suggest running 500mg/week? That seems to be the norm. I would assume doing 2 injections per week would be sufficient. This is my first "real" cylce. By that I mean I ran Deca and some really terrible Test called "Testoprim-D' which is 200mg Test E and 50mg Test-Prop. It was legit but the quality was poor. I had to abandon the cycle because I was reacting badly to the Testoprim.
Anyway I have done a TON of research and spend quite a bit of time here reading. I want to do this safely as possible. I am not so sure about running PCT. Can you guys tell me what kind to run, how much and when to start it. I am 5'10 175 lbs. Work out 5 days a week and eat very well.
All Input is greatly appreciated.
06-01-2005, 11:13 PM #2Associate Member
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- May 2005
06-01-2005, 11:17 PM #3Banned
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I think Sustanon is a great first cycle. It was designed for optimal blood levels with minimum injecting.
However, Test PROP would also be a great ester to run for a 1st cycle, so that you may assess your individual tolerance to testosterone . Blood levels will not build so that you may avoid typical testosterone sides-effects.
Test Enanthate is fine as well (Personally dont see a need for cyp). Make sure you have arimidex on hand. (That goes for ALL TESTS.)
06-01-2005, 11:19 PM #4Banned
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PCT should be FULL CLOMID TREATMENT (300,100,50) in conjucntiion with 40mgs NOlva for 1 week, followed by 20mgs ED for another. Tribulus extract should be used in conjucntion.
06-02-2005, 05:57 AM #5
I'm a sustanon and omnadren believer. I love the stuff. I am currently running Omnadren 250 at 500mg. per week in two different shots. This is my first real cycle too. I am having great results. Little or no water retension or bloating for me. I have seen some guys hold some water while on, but if you watch you diet strictly you'll be good to go.
I would keep nolva handy for any signs of gyno. But definatley run clomid two weeks after last test inject. Run it for two weeks.
06-03-2005, 12:03 AM #6
Thanks everyone! Good info.
06-03-2005, 12:10 AM #7Originally Posted by RickJames007
06-03-2005, 12:47 AM #8
i love sus..it was my first cycle at 500mg a week..did me wonders..im on testoprime-d right now..only second week and feeling it a lil already....so far i like it myself..but we'll see in the weeks ahead.
06-03-2005, 12:48 AM #9
2x a week is enough...your basically saying phuck the prop in it...eod...still will only give you a lil under 200mg of prop a week which is still just a lil..use it for the e and cyp.
06-03-2005, 06:19 AM #10Originally Posted by hckykrt91
06-03-2005, 04:46 PM #11
here is a post i read from another board..I'll copy it here:
Hummm....here's some info for the guys who need it...please read.Sust is NOT to be taken like enat.
The proper use of Sustanon in a cycle by Squatdemon
One of the most misunderstood ideals when it comes to Sustanon is how to properly use it in a cycle. There is no wrong way, but there is a best way to administer proper doseages so you can fully benifit from the esters in Sustanon. Sustanon was developed for the primary reason of hormone replacement, and because of the mix of esters most patients only needed one shot a month to keep their hormone levels balanced. Because of this design, the bodybuilder will not recieve proper doseages at once or twice a week injections. Your blood levels will fluctuate up and down continually, which is not what you want while on a cycle. You want stable levels to give your body the best chance it can have to build plenty of muscle. All test is the same, but once only the ester is removed. People that say test is test are wrong unless you are assuming that the ester has already been removed. I have had plenty of different results fromt the different tests I have used, as well as I am sure you have too. The secret to making sus work correctly, is timing the esters so the blood levels do not fluctuate.
I will assume that everyone knows how an ester works and why one is added to the parent testosterone . With sustanon, you have 4 esters:
30mg of prop
60mg of phenylprop
60mg of isocaproate
100mg of deconate
Combined to give you 250mg.
Now everyone knows for themselves how much test they should take due to previous cycles or no cycles at all. Lets take each ester and see how long they will stay active in the body. 30mg of prop--Prop needs to be injected at least every other day to get the full benifits of the test. I think every third day is a little too long to wait, although some people may disagree.
Now lets say you are doing a prop only cycle and injecting 30mg twice a week. You can see already that is a waste of gear. If you inject 30mg of prop twice a week you are totally wasting your time. You will NOT grow off of this, so you can basically take sus and knock it down to 220mg an amp if you are injecting once or twice a week. 60 mg of phenylprop--Phenylprop is not that much different than prop. You can get away with injecting the phenylprop ester every third day. Anyone that has taken nandrolone with a phenylprop ester knows that it is shorter acting and must be injected twice a week (for example, getwoods powder). If injected twice a week, then lets even cushion the amount, you will have all 120 mg in one week. To recap, so far this is what you get the first week---180 mg of test in your system. If you ask me that was a waste of two amps. That is barely enough to supress the axis, and that is about all you will have happen if you inject 180mg of test per week.
Now lets look at the longer acting esters in sus. 60mg of Isocaproate--Isocaproate will give you a duration of about a week before it is let go. This is not bad, but at 60 mg you are still not getting enough test to make it worth the time. 100mg of Deconate--Here is the daddy of the four esters. This is the same ester that is used in Decca-Durabolin . The deconate ester should really average out at 2 weeks, but has been said to last up to 3. This ester was added at a 100mg dose to balance out the quicker acting esters used in sustanon. If we review one more time, we can see roughly how much test we will have in our body per week when we use sus, and hopefully you can see it is very low. You can pretty much take out the prop and phenylprop until about week 3 or 4, because once the other esters release the test and it gets time to build up in the system, the prop and phenylprop is useless. Not until around week six are you going to get your test levels high enough to do any good, and if you are on a 10 week cycle and start tapering week 8, then your test have been only relatively high for about 2-3 weeks.
Call me crazy, but that is not at all what I want in a cycle. Every test cycle should be started high to hit those receptors hard, and I dont even taper at the end (but that is a different story). This is what your sustanon cycle looks like if you inject on a once or twice a week basis.
wk1 wk6 wk10 wk12
---- / \ / \ / \ / \ _________________\
Although this is a rough diagram, you can see how small of a peak you get, and once you start to taper and the isocaproate and the deconate taper off, you have a very non effective cycle. The scale is only a visual aid and not completely drawn to scale, but hopefully you get the point.
The numbers that BIGDAWG and I worked on basically show that your test levels will never at one time be stable for more that a couple of weeks. Why do you think that people say they have less bloat on sus and less sides. There is so little of the short acting test in your system at one time that it is impossible to get any bloat or side effects at all.
So you ask, well what is the best way to take sus then?
First I would answer dont buy it. If you really want to use a 4 blend test then buy some of the old omna (not the new ones), they have more shorter acting tests in them and the blood levels will stay more equal. If you dont believe me, ask anyone that has used the old omna and they will tell you they got quite a bit of bloat from it. Reason being is the shorter acting esters in the omna build up your blood levels quicker, hence you have the bloat factor. If someone doesnt like my first answer, then I will give them a second, "inject the sus everyday or at the least every other day." I usually get the "wholly @#%$, thats crazy!!!" answer. I usually tell them back, no its not crazy, its science. The actual science of sus combined with a bodybuilders needs equal injecting every day.
People seem to forget about the esters and think they are injecting all of 1750mg each week and getting every mg of it. Trust me folks, I am not talking about injecting 7 amps a week for 10 weeks, I am suggesting injecting an amp a day for 3 weeks, and letting the esters do thier work after that. When you crunch the numbers, for the first two weeks you are really only getting the prop, phenylprop, and a little of the isocaproate. Maybe about 700-750 mg for the first two weeks, and for weeks after that when all of the isocaproate and deconate kick in you will stay aroung 600-800mg for weeks following the first couple. You have a perfect taper, if you are into that, and stable test levels. If you go to eod, it will vary a bit, but not enough to really make too much of a difference. Start off the cycle with 5 weeks of dbol while using the sus, and when you are done with the sustanon, then immediately start injecting two anabolics like eq and decca, or decca and primo/winny. This is a cycle that a lot of the pros are using called front end loading with an anabolic taper.
I guinea pigged this idea when BIGDAWG and I were discussing it many months back, and damn it was a really good cycle. Not as good as 1000mg of aratest a week, but still a pretty good cycle. I have cycled sus/omna both ways, and trained relatively the same with the same kind of diet. The difference in the two cycles were like night and day, about a 15-17 pound difference, and two amps of omna a week was my first cycle too. You know, the one you are supposed to grow the most off of because of the virgin receptors. So test may be test, but you will not get the same results from every ester out there if you dont know how to time them. If you are thinking of a sus/omna cycle, give this a try. I promise you will not be disappointed, and you just may thank me and DAWG later......peace.
06-03-2005, 04:51 PM #12
06-03-2005, 04:59 PM #13New Member
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- Jun 2005
my opinion on sustenon is that it sucks..... your blood sugar levels are all over the place and you def waste the propionate if you dont do it every day.... stick to test e if u want to inject twice a week
06-27-2005, 12:39 PM #14Junior Member
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- May 2005
- US Enough Said.
so I am myself a little confused. When should you start the Nolva then? I have never experienced any gyno on tren but not to say it won't happen with test. Should I start the nolva like booz said, througout the pct? I have heard run it with the cycle? now confused. I'm currently not on anything but looking at supplements.
06-27-2005, 05:15 PM #15Originally Posted by badmoto
pct would start 18 days after your last shot of sust 250.
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