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Hey guys, I started doin deca and of course i started gettin the deca dick so I stopped taking it halfway through the cycle. Im thinkin of doin test enanth. Now i dont wanna get insanely huge but nice n filled out for summer. Should i do the test by itself or stack it with the 5cc's of deca that i have left.
And when it comes to pct, should I be using both nolva and clomid or will one of them be enough?
Even if I change my mind, is it bad to stop deca halfway through without any pct?
write out the cycle you are proposin to do and the amount you will be takin weekly also you stats would be nice.
Firstly, how long you been on the Deca?
Second, Nolva AND Clomid must be used during PCT to maximise the chances of attaining gains.
Lastly, I would go for a simple Test cycle using Enan or Cyp. 500mg/wk injected 2x week for 12 weeks with proper PCT. Stack it with may be Dbol or Tbol to jumpstart.
i duno how much i should be doin of the test, prolly about 500mg/wk? (only wanna be injectin once a week), I been on the deca for about 5 weeks now at about 375mg/wk.
Im 160lbs, 6'2.
so nolva and clomid both are needed AFTER the cycle? And i guess thats a no for stacking with deca?
dude no offense, but 160 and 6'2"? thats kinda skinny. i really dont think that the AAS will do much at this point. eat eat eat.
i would throw in 500mg weekly of test and run it for 10weeks for it to have any decent affect this means you would be on for 15 weeks,you have to shoot itr twice weekly to keep your blood levels stable,if you do not want to run for this long i would strongly recommend you come off the deca and start pct,have a couple of months off,do sum research in that time and start again.
The Test (if you start now) will take 4-5 weeks to fully kick in so I think it would be a waste starting it now. Finish the Deca cycle as it is then make sure you carry out correct PCT. It's vital as you have just done a Deca only cycle which is fairly hard on shutting you down.
Run Clomid and Nolva for PCT as follows,
Correct PCT should consist of:
wk 1-2 Clomid 100mg/ED
wk 2-4 Clomid 50mg/ED
wk 1-4 Nolva 20mg/ED
wk 1-4 Creatine 5g/ED
wk 1-4 Tribulas 4g/ED
wk 1-4 L-Glutamine 10mg/ED
MultiVitimins and 1000mg/ED Vit C should also be included with Omega-3's and a Zinc and Magnesium supplement.
This will maximise the chances of keeping the gains made by Deca alone.
Next time you inject yourself with an AS make sure you know what your doing, as Deca only cycles are NOT suggested to any one!
yah im mainly concerned about how i f'd myself with the deca...so i cant just go cold turkey? i gotta go with the pct's eh
yes mate do pct!its a must!
alrite, so for getting off the deca i gotta do both clomid and nolva? I've already got the other stuff
p.s. i'm not concerned about losing my gains...I just want my balls and libido back to normal asap
I noticed you recommended Tribulus but I have seen a number of articles saying that it doesn't actually raise natural test levels it just kind of bumps them up for a little bit and then raises estrogen as well....Has there been any actual concluded research on tribulus working...here is one article on the subject basically saying it doesn't do anything....I have read a number of others basically saying the same thing. Tribulus seems to be a product along the lines of ZMA. Promising raised test levels and not doing anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swifto
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Written by Jay McCombs-
The first on the list is of course Tribulus Terrestris, specifically the steroidal saponin protodioscin. Tribulus has long been used in various cultures as an aphrodisiac and treatment for sexual dysfunction. The theory then follows that this increase in libido is probably due to increased levels of androgens, which would also mean that Tribulus generates some type of ergogenic effect. So what does the research say?
First let’s look at several studies conducted on animals that examined the aphrodisiac properties of Tribulus. The first study investigated the response of corpus cavernosal tissue isolated from rabbits that were fed Tribulus for eight weeks [1]. After harvesting, tissues were then exposed to protodiscin, contractile agents, and relaxant agents. Tissue strips from treated rabbits showed an increased rate of relaxation when administered various relaxing agents after said tissue was constricted with norepinephrine. This indicated that Tribulus seemed to have some effect on the rabbits’ ability to get erections; however, no specific mechanism could be pinpointed.
Follow up research ensued. The next two studies, conducted on castrated rats, examined variables that essentially investigated how sexually aroused the rats were [2, 3]. The researchers found that Tribulus supplementation definitely appeared to increase the rats’ libido. Again however, an exact mechanism could not be found.
The latest study by the same researchers tried to determine the mechanism of action by which the mice and rats each appeared to experience heightened arousal levels [4]. Once again, rats were fed Tribulus for 8 weeks. Immunoreactivity studies were performed on the androgen receptor (AR), while Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate-diaphorase (NADPH-d) levels were taken from the rat paraventricular nucleus in order to determine activity.
The researchers found activity at both receptors increased over control; however, this muddied the waters a bit. NADPH-d neurons are the same that contain NOS. Previous research indicated these neurons were inhibited by increased androgen activity. The researchers attributed this to effects mediated through the conversion of androgens to estrogen, which would then increase the number of NADPH-d neurons. The end result was the same: Tribulus undoubtedly heightened arousal, but whether this was a result of increased androgen levels was unclear.
So, rats having sex is fun to watch, but we want to get buff, right? Well, let’s talk about primates. Primates given Tribulus intravenously showed a transient (read, 30 minutes) increase in testosterone and DHT and a longer increase in DHEAS (an increase of about 25-50% for about 120 minutes), which might be helpful with DHEA mediated effects on sexual function if your testosterone was low [5]. Otherwise, this effect probably would not be noticeable.
In my opinion, the nail in Trib’s coffin comes from the following two studies. The first study examined body weight, body composition, maximal strength, dietary intake, and mood states of subjects before and after 8 weeks of taking either a Tribulus extract or a placebo [6]. No significant change was found in any of these parameters after supplementation with Tribulus when compared with the placebo group.
The next study evaluated claims that LH and subsequently testosterone levels were increased above normal after ingesting Tribulus extracts [7]. Baseline levels of testosterone and its metabolites in urine and serum were established for all subjects. Participants were then fed a heaping gram of Tribulus daily for 4 weeks. Testosterone levels were checked routinely, and researchers found no significant increase in hormone levels beyond normal day to day variations. This research is the most significant and relevant to our discussion here today. It was conducted on humans and looked for the two variables we are most concerned with: increasing testosterone and, in turn, increasing exercise performance—and in both of these studies Tribulus failed to do either.
I just briefly want to discuss the Sopharma research. This research was not included in this review for several reasons. It has not been published in a reputable English language journal and subsequently peer reviewed; and, subsequent research has been unable to elicit the same results when conducted in a similar manner [7].
In my opinion Tribulus is not useful for increasing androgen levels in healthy males or improving exercise performance. There may be some effect on individuals with androgen deficiencies where Tribulus acts as a precursor to deficient DHEA, but at this time the only conclusion that can be definitively drawn about Tribulus is that it seems to be quite effective at making castrated rats horny [8].
Also I believe Creatine should be taken throughout the entire cycle not just at the end...
Euro! 4 how long did u do the deca? How long have u been off etc... R asking can u change in fly ferom deca to test ? Cant really make out ur situation or ur question.
Right now i just wanna get off the deca, test can wait. I just need to know if i need both Nolva and clomid for pct with deca... which i've only been on for 5 weeks at about 375mg/wk. I been off it for 8 days and counting..(missed yesterdays shot)
anyone?
Do proper PCT, include everything I have stated. Including the Tribulas (if it doesnt increase natural testosterone production it is used for labido purposes).
Do both 4 PCT!! But u do know that after PCT u neeed like additional 5 weeks b4 u should cycle again. In my book u could still make the straight switch 2 test coz the nandrolone is still active in ur system .. u would be able 2 continue ur cycle. Ask sum1 smarter bout that though!!
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/par25.htm
this is why i am confused..
main thing is iuno if i can afford both
im thinking after 5 weeks of deca your recovery will be rather quick... your dosages werent huge, and deca may shut you down during, but your recovery is usally faster with mild anabolics than stronger adrogens like test
yah i just got some doctor/endocrinologists advice about this which i'll post in a new one..
Quote:
Originally Posted by legobricks
Agreed!
Yah i know im skinny, thats why i juiced in teh first place,Quote:
Originally Posted by legobricks
don't forget your vit B6 200mg ED for that Deca
Frank... Deca shuts u off really bad - worse from test from all what I have read.. That is maybe coz it stays in the system 4 so long or whatever but Deca shuts u off really bad..
Since the typical steroid cycle adds 8% of your starting weight as net gains... but because he is tall and the bones occupy more of his weight, he cannot expect more then 9 lbs on the next cycle... should try to beef up more naturally so it wont be so expensive per pound gained. When considering gear costs, PCT, and food and shakes needed to gain those 8 pounds, and those 5 CC of deca... not enough, get more and do a real cycle if you are going to cycle at all... it will end up costing this bro about $85 per pound gained and he's sure to loose 5 of those pounds in PCT. Not worth it to be cycling at a 160 lbs starting size.Quote:
Originally Posted by legobricks
I never really got anything out of tribulis even if its has been used for centuries sometimes called spanish fly. Why not use something has been clinically proven to increase testosterone significantly as much as up to 400% under long term usage... that is tongkat ali. The famous chinese herbal used in chinese medicine for several thousand years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swifto