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I've attached a file that is a modified cycle taken from this site. Take a look if you like and comment accordingly as to whether you believe it has merit as a good beginners cutting cycle or if you think its sh*t. Also, can the water retention caused by some steroids be handled by taking a Lasix every day?
I would add some kind of test in there.
First off forget about lasix, especially being your new to AS. That's not something you wanna fck with.
2nd...eq/winny/clen cycles are good if your goal is strickly cutting but I'd recomend test with that cycle for better results.
20mgs nolva will keep the bloat off during cycles but why run it in that cycle? Eq has very little if any water retention and winny has none so I don't really see the point.
If I were to run that I might add .5cc ed of ldex but that's it. I personally would skip the nolva.
I'd go with test/eq/clen or test/winny/clen along with ldex in both.
Diet/cardio gonna determine how much cut you get and if you can cut on Eq god bless you cuz I certainly can't.
Don't mess with Lasix? I've been using it for quite awhile without any trouble. As long as you take potassium with it there shouldn't be problems. Regardless, my goal in modifying that cycle was to create a very effective fat burning, moderately anabolic, cycle. I need to lose like 50 lbs so bulking is not that important right now. I just need to get some lard off my ass while maintaining my current lean mass.
Lasix is very dangerous especially with perlonged use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinytestes
Whats your current stats and have u ever used AS before?
Stats: 23 years old, 5'9", 295lbs @ 30% bodyfat. No I've never used before.
have u tried eating clean and cardio with some moderate weigght trainingQuote:
Originally Posted by Tinytestes
Yeah, Ive tried it time and time again. I think from dieting so much I've screwed my metabolism. My body absolutely refuses to lose weight until I've dropped below 1000 cals a day. I know that is incredibly unhealthy and don't know what else to do. In my mind taking a few assisting chemicals to reach my goals is much better than starving myself and losing all my muscle.
EQ at 500mg/wk will give you mad hunger pains which will only make dieting harder. EQ at 500 will have a tendancy to put some weight on you as will the winny. if pure fat loss is your goal, the clen and T-3 combo will do that. clen is mildly anti-catabolic, so it will combat some catabolism from the T-3. if you want something for more catabolism, i'd say 200-300mg test/wk. winny just kills my joints and i'll never use it again. var would be another good option, although more expensive than the test or winny. no matter what supps you add in, 80-90% of your fat loss will be from diet, cardio and workouts.
what does your diet look like with a breakdown of fats, carbs and protein for each meal? what type, how long and how often do you do cardio? same thing with workouts?
If your hell bent on taking a cycle mainly for cutting purposes test e/clen/t3 would be the way to go, along w/ some ldex.
Your diet and cardio are gonna be the key here even with the drugs so don't jump into AS thinking your gonna lose weight because your on something...If your diet/cardio/workouts aren't in check your gonna look worse then when u started.
What would be a good combo of cardio and weights for this type of cycle? Also, what calorie range would be appropriate? Dosing?
cardio 5 days a week 30-45 minutes at 65-70% THR
lifting, i don't really change
dosing, no more than 400-500mg test, i cut with 400mg test enan.
calories depend on weight and goals. probably 2500 cals, 300-350g's protein a day, low fat, moderate carbs.
That's good advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by wired-up
Sounds good. Thanks guys.
Just run test p with the clen and t3. I am running prop,winny, and clen right now. My guy is out of t3 right now.
I would have recomended prop also but I feel for someone new to AS the ed or eod inject sometimes is a bit too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by boywonder10101
Any reason to take clomid, nolvadex or b6?
Yea, take the clomid and nolva durring pct. If you are just starting to use AAS, then gyno shouldn't be a big prob. Have the nolva on hand incase you see puffiness around your niblets.
b6 only for deca and tren, and it's taken during cycle. nolva during if gyno shows up. clomid and nolva for PCT. clomid is PCT only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinytestes
So I don't need to take the nolvadex everyday during the cycle? Would it hurt anything if I took it everyday just in case? I really don't need my tits getting any bigger. Although having sensitive nipples might be fun.
usually the sensitivity in your nipples will be in the form of pain. no, nolva doesn't have to be taking everyday. it won't hurt you if you do take it. some believe it can hinder gains while there's some evidence that this is a false statement. if you want to take it everyday, i'd just do 10mgED. it will help keep some bloat off too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinytestes
try hydrochlorothiazide
it's a mild diuretic.. and a lot safer than lasix
if you're trying to burn fat off, diuretics aren't needed. the more water you take in, the better your body will burn fat. you want the water. diruetics are only if you're trying to dry up to look good for a show or the beach for a week. won't do too much for long term fat loss.
tinytestes, you don't have your diet together plain and simple. If you can't lose, it's always diet. Check out the 'cutting sticky' in the diet section of the forum, it is very effective (I'm doing it now and I see changes everyday). Don't turn to steriods for this, you'll be disappointed.
I realize how important my diet is. However, I'm frankly tired of f*cking around and am going to lose this damned fat come hell or high water. This stuff will greatly increase the speed and I believe quality of my results.
only the clen and T-3 will increase the speed. gear won't do anything except keep you from loosing what muscle you already have. don't expect miracles from the clen and T-3 either. they'll help, but diet is still the key. if you eat like crap, no matter how much clen or T-3 you take, you won't loose any fat.
I plan on using the diet info you suggested wired-up. I feel like in 5-6 months I could easily go from my current weight of 295 to a tight, toned and tanned 225.
first off, at 30% bf you shouldnt be taking steroids. You need to work on your diet a lot and do more cardio. You say youve tried dieting and all that and it didnt work, all that tells me is that you dont know how to diet and eat correctly. Here's an example of a cutting diet
http://forums.steroid.com/read-here-first/75729-unoffical-how-cut-thread-sample-diet.html
Have you tried eating like this? I highly doubt it. Im not trying to flame you but, diet and cardio are the keys not losing weight, not what drugs you take. Everybody is always looking for a miracle pill or drug to lose when, but to lose weight and keep it off comes down to dedication, not drugs!!!
If drugs aren't the answer then why is everyone here taking them? I understand that I will have to eat right and work my ass off but with the addition of a few helpful chemicals I will get paid back in spades. I'm looking for a very dramatic change in a relatively short amount of time (5-6 months). That simply cannot be done without some chemical assistance. And whether it's wrong or right of me to do it, I am going to do it regardless.
most people that take them, the educated ones anyway, will work hard naturally for several years, get in shape, get down to 15% or lower BF BEFORE they ever take any gear. that's the way you'll get the best results from gear. almost all gear is going to have a tendancy to put weight on you. hell, that's what they were designed to do. so using gear for weight loss has only a very small, specific application. the majority of your weight loss needs to and will only come from hard work and dedication to diet and cardio. that link that longhorn posted will be the key to your success. if you followed that diet to an exact point, and took no supps at all, you'd loose the weight, guaranteed! if anyone fails at weight loss, it's due to their diet....EVERYTIME! i don't care how fat you are, what medical conditions you have, what genetics you have been cursed with. with proper diet, you can make your body do anything you want. the only exception to that is the genetic limit to how much muscle your body will put on, but 99.99999999% of people never hit that limit before they start using gear. so diet is key. if you fail to meet your goals, it's not the clen or T-3's fault, it's your diet. earlier, you said you can't loose weight till you drop below 1000 cals. if you do that, the weight you're loosing is muscle. your calories shouldn't drop below 2000. if you take in those 2000 cals split up over 6-7 meals a day, your metabolism will go sky high. if you wait longer than 3 hours to eat, you're going to slow down your metabolism. at 1000 calories, your body will go into a starvation protection state and virtually stop your metabolism. so that low of calories is counter productive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinytestes
I guess I'm just scared of raising calories without a net (steroids). My metabolism has been stunted so much by the low cal diet that I'm afraid that if I did raise my calories, exercise or not, I would pack on 10-15 lbs almost instantly. For a guy thats already 295 thats a scary thought. I am being sincere when I say that it does actually induce fear in me to think of gaining more fat.
People here are taking them because they have their diet and training down and the drugs fine tune the results of that. at 30% bodyfat drugs will do you more harm than good. As someone said, get to about 15% with "proper" diet, not just shit cal's, and nail down your training, then maybe look at AAS. But my comments are obviously moot and I cant figure why you posted if you have your mind made up? Usually people are here for help and seeking knowledge, then they make up their minds. You have done the reverse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinytestes
And I am sorry that you don't want to hear what I or others are saying but I would bet your diet and training is far from where it should be for weightloss. Anyone can lose weight with dedication and correct knowledge. To say you cant is an excuse. I have done it naturally and didnt think I could either. Its all about committment and pure dedication. There is no magic cure for anything in this game.
i know. i've been there before. i've never been as heavy as you, but i've been anhorexic before. the fear of gaining weight makes you eat less, but you're actually forcing your body to hold on to more of what you eat by eating less. your body is trying to protect itself. it doesn't know when it will get food again, so it stores everything it can. you have to break that cycle by eating more often. if you're in this protection state, steroids won't help you at all and will likely help your body store more fat. steroids are not fat burners. they're not a safety net to fall back into. your diet is the safety net. i would start by going to 1500 cals a day for a week (assuming you're only at 1000 now which is dangerously unhealthy), but make sure you're eating every 2-3 hours. even if it's only a piece of bread or something small, your body will adjust to getting food more often and start to bring your metabolism back up. try that for a week or 2, and then take your cals up another couple hundred each week. you'll see that you're not going to blow up and put on weight really fast. i just went through this with my brother in law. he put himself on a very low cal diet and did the atkins thing for a couple years. he lost a lot of weight, but he lost a ton of muscle. he was around 1200 cals a day. he wanted to get stronger and build some muscle again so i told him he had to eat more. he was so scared to put the weight back on though. i finally got him to increase his meal frequency and his calories. he brought them up a couple hundred cals per week till he was around 2200-2300 a day. he hasn't gained any weight like he feared he would. he's put some strength and muscle back on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinytestes
if your diet is right, and you keep up with cardio, you will loose weight by eating more. it can be done as thousands on here can attest to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by longhorn814
Thats about right...And tbh i am the worst ever dieter around but i do read up about a few things and what you said about you have done so many diets your body cannot react to loosing wieght..so this is the part where you think i might say i feel sorry for you ...but i dont you are 23 and well over wieght not the most over wieght person ive come across but you have 30% BF and that is alot for your age...so go to the link wich longhorn put on for you and start from scratch or even better still say ****it pig out over the weekend till you feel sick and then from monday start a realistic diet wich has worked for the majority of people also by doing alot of cardio not just 30 minutes a day you need to be burning around 800 - 1000 cals every time you train at around 70-80 % of your heart rate to do this you need to buy a watch and a stomach strap...i am from the uk and most people use the make polar.... Dude i hope you take the peoples advice on here and come back in 3 months time and put your hands up and say you didnt diet properly before but you have now.
Also i am a firm believer that drugs and steroids for cutting do alot more harm to you then good not just phisicly mentaly as well.
So university tests say 70-80 % of your heart while training will burn most fat ..so heres an example if your heart is running at 100bpm any normal day then it would probalby raise around 20% while taking any clen - t3 - winny mostly with clen so when you were to do cardio it would be giving you a different heart rate to what you would have had originaly..dont get me wrong im not knocking clen because ive have used it before and with a decent diet it will work but i dont think its good to use with 70-80% h/r workout...so heres a link on what alot of people i know use to plan there workout.
http://www.heartmonitors.com/exercis...12workouts.htm
and heres a link you can add up your cals and fat take in through the day (not 100% accurate) but i think alot of people use it .
http://www.fitday.com/
Thats about it hope you do come back in a couple of months and tell us how your getting im sure some of the others will like it to :wg: good luck
i would drop your body fat% before you even think about AAS. 30% is very high bro. Start with a nice clean cutting diet and training program. JMO.
you can def see a nice change in 5-6months without AAS. I lost 35lbs in 2 months using the old Xenadrine that had ephedra in it, a nice clean diet, and dedicated workouts got me there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinytestes
Rely on your willpower. In most cases, people rely so much on AAS to reach their goals which in all actuality all it does, in most people, is make them think they do not have to eat as clean or workout at hard to reach their goals.
I am very confident you will see a nice change without the AAS, then when you think you may have reached a plateu, I would consider using.
Good luck my man....
Just for sh*ts and giggles lets suppose I decide not to use anything right now. Would the diet info provided earlier be the same if I'm not using? 2500 cals per day, spread out over 6-8 meals? Also, would a generic 3 sets of 10 be an appropriate workout architecture?
yes, diet would be the same. study up on that link to the cutting sticky. 3x10 would be fine. at this point, any lifting added to your diet and cardio will be beneficial. i'd do 2-3 exercises per muscle at 3x10. go check out the training forum. lots of ideas for lifting routines there. take advantage of all the info on this board, not just the steroid forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinytestes
You're really not listening, these chemicals that you think are gonna pay off so big for you are not gonna help that much at all....we're all trying to tell you that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinytestes
I lost 52lbs in 6 months years back, and recently have lost about 19 pounds in 2 months....never have I used anything except ephedrine the 1st time. I'm using the cutting sticky we're telling you about. Guys at my gym are bugging out at how my diet is working so well. I'm seeing changes every day. This diet works, we're all telling you that....add daily cardio and you'll shed, believe me.
To say it can't be done without chemicals is just plain stupid....to say it after a panel of experienced gym rats have told you otherwise time & time again is beyond stupid.
dragon69 did you not read my last post? I said that I'm probably not going to use anything for now. And that is because I did indeed listen to these guys. So who's stupid here?