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Thread: Cialis Dosage

  1. #1
    MickyBlueEyes is offline New Member
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    Cialis Dosage

    Hey guys quick question what is the proper dosage for Cialis i want to give my girlfriend the ride of her life!!! Thanks in advance

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    MBaraso's Avatar
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    15mgs is enough IMO.

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    Wish I would have caught it on sale. I wanna try some even though I dont need it, you never know during pct.

    Iwould like to know the dosage too.

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    Cracker Jak is offline New Member
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    Seriously man i would like to know that also. Soon enough i will be hung like a horse!!!

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    MBaraso's Avatar
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    I took 30mgs once and I was good for 4 days

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    Quote Originally Posted by gooroo
    Wish I would have caught it on sale. I wanna try some even though I dont need it, you never know during pct.

    Iwould like to know the dosage too.

    We all don't need it, but we all want to try it!!!

  7. #7
    Brianna is offline Junior Member
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    20 mg is enough.....I took one and was hard for 2 days....

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    concur with 20mg being the max dose at one time.

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    MickyBlueEyes is offline New Member
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    Thanks guys

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    There was an article in JAMA last month about Viagra causing blindness in rare events... Looks like your mom was right!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7COCU7
    There was an article in JAMA last month about Viagra causing blindness in rare events... Looks like your mom was right!!!

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    MickyBlueEyes is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7COCU7
    There was an article in JAMA last month about Viagra causing blindness in rare events... Looks like your mom was right!!!

    yeah she always warned me but you should see how much bigger my left forearm is then my right!!!

  13. #13
    7COCU7's Avatar
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    This just in: Cialis causes hairy palms!

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    ^ lol

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    co2boi's Avatar
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    There was a thread started about it's affect on females, but I never say a definitive answer. Does anyone know? What would the dosage for a girl be? (Not trying to hijack your thread bro)

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    bowser is offline Associate Member
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    is it the same dosage for the cia on anabolic review research?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowser
    is it the same dosage for the cia on anabolic review research?
    I would go with 6 squirts with the one from AR-R , 8 if you're not happy. But 6 will keep you going for 1-1 1/2 days. Remember to shake it good b/c it settles

    ~theJuice~

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by co2boi
    There was a thread started about it's affect on females, but I never say a definitive answer. Does anyone know? What would the dosage for a girl be? (Not trying to hijack your thread bro)
    To answer the first guy...if you're taking the actual pill don't take more than 20mg and dont' take it more than once a day. Any more than that and you may just experience more sides rather than more effect.

    For the second question about women, I thought I answered your question pretty definitevely in the other thread but here's the info anyway. If a female were to take it, the dose is the same, 20mg. Keep in mind cialis or viagra or levitra may not work in all women as it is not meant for women. If it does work, it should increase blood flow to her clitoris, therefore making her more sensitive and therefore perhaps experiencing orgasm sooner/more often. It's hard to say as it's never been studied in women.

    remember....these drugs do not increase your libido, aka THEY DONT MAKE YOU HORNY, YOU HAVE TO BE HORNY FOR THEM TO WORK...this includes women

    BTW, in the US, starting dose is 10mg, in Canada the starting dose and the max dose is 20mg. Just take 20mg, 10mg probably wont do as much (even if you dont need it and are just trying it)

    Hope this helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brianna
    20 mg is enough.....I took one and was hard for 2 days....

    then it probably was not cialis. that is an effect more commonly associated with viagra.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha
    then it probably was not cialis. that is an effect more commonly associated with viagra.
    I'm afraid this is incorrect. It would have been Cialis

    Duration of action Viagra - 4 hours
    Duration of action Levitra - 4 hours
    Duration of action Cialis - 36 hours

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SexyKitty
    I'm afraid this is incorrect. It would have been Cialis

    Duration of action Viagra - 4 hours
    Duration of action Levitra - 4 hours
    Duration of action Cialis - 36 hours
    ding ding ding. I have to agree. Some guy on here(dont remember) tried half of a 25g pill was hard for like 2 days

    ~theJuice~

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    Quote Originally Posted by SexyKitty
    I'm afraid this is incorrect. It would have been Cialis

    Duration of action Viagra - 4 hours
    Duration of action Levitra - 4 hours
    Duration of action Cialis - 36 hours
    thank you for the lesson on half lives.

    incorrect though it may be-
    clinicals show viagra and levitra to have a 4-5hr HALF LIFE.
    Cialis has a mean half life of 17.5hrs in healthy mean though this varies considerably and hence why many users report strong effects lasting 30-100hrs.

    the effect of a near constant erection is not associated with CIALIS, it is however commonly associated with viagra.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha
    thank you for the lesson on half lives.

    incorrect though it may be-
    clinicals show viagra and levitra to have a 4-5hr HALF LIFE.
    Cialis has a mean half life of 17.5hrs in healthy mean though this varies considerably and hence why many users report strong effects lasting 30-100hrs.

    the effect of a near constant erection is not associated with CIALIS, it is however commonly associated with viagra.
    I believe we have a missunderstanding here.

    If you look at my post, I did not refer once to half lives, nor did I refer to duration of an erection. I refered to DURATION OF ACTION, which is very different. So basically with cialis, you have the ABILITY to get an erection for 36 hours, your not hard for 2 days....you can just more easily get hard for 2 days especially if you dont have ED. usually people exagerate and say sh*t like "I was hard for 2 days", and especially if your on test and a PDE5, damn right your gonna be getting hard a lot!

    It just so happens with Viagra the HALF LIFE and DURATION OF EFFICACY is both 4 hours. To be specific, duration of efficacy is 1-4 hours.

    A near constant erection, also known as Priaprism is an erection that lasts more than 4 hours and is not typically associated with any of hte PDE5 drugs. If this happens, you got problems and should go to a doctor,

  24. #24
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    73 Percent of Men with ED Preferred Lilly ICOS' Cialis over Viagra, Published Head-to-Head Clinical Trial Showed


    LONDON, March 23 /PRNewswire/ -- Lilly ICOS LLC (NYSE: LLY and Nasdaq: ICOS) -- In a newly published clinical study, 73 percent of men preferred 20 mg tablets of Cialis(R) (tadalafil) over Viagra(R) (sildenafil citrate) for treatment of their erectile dysfunction (ED)(1) after receiving treatment with both products. The double-blind, randomised, crossover study, published online today in European Urology, evaluated men's preference between two oral ED treatment options, Cialis (tadalafil), developed by Lilly ICOS, or Viagra.(2) These data add to a growing body of evidence relating to patient preference among oral ED treatments. The results of these studies parallel the increasing use of Cialis and growing market share worldwide.

    European Urology is a peer-reviewed medical journal published monthly. It is the official journal of the European Association of Urology, which hosts its annual meeting March 24-27 in Vienna, Austria.

    "Nearly three-quarters of men in this study preferred Cialis, and the study design for this head-to-head trial is one of the most rigorous to date," said lead author Alexander Von Keitz, M.D., from Marburg, Germany. "As the body of patient preference studies among the oral ED therapies grows, we continue to learn more about which of the drugs men prefer and why they prefer them."

    These results follow an independent study in which Cialis was preferred more than the other two oral ED treatments, Levitra(R) (vardenafil) and Viagra.(3) In interim results of one study, 222 participants, 44 percent preferred Cialis, 32 percent Levitra and 14 percent Viagra. Only 10 percent expressed no preference but these patients responded poorly to all three treatments. In the study, the primary reason cited by 75 percent of patients who preferred Cialis was its extended period of effectiveness. These results were obtained in a study in which men tried all three currently available PDE5 inhibitors, and doctors provided them the opportunity to choose which one they preferred for continued treatment. The study's investigator, Professor Hartmut Porst, a private urological/andrological physician in Hamburg, Germany, and associate professor of urology at the University of Bonn, is one of the world's leading ED specialists.

    Details of the Von Keitz study

    In the Von Keitz study, sponsored by Lilly ICOS, 181 patients (out of a total of 219 patients randomised in the original 12-week assessment phase) chose to remain on a specific ED treatment through the completion of the double-blinded extension phase of the trial. Of this group, 73 percent (132/181) preferred 20 mg Cialis, and 27 percent (49/181) preferred Viagra (p<0.001). In a subgroup of patients who titrated up from 50 mg to 100 mg Viagra during the study, 69 percent of men preferred Cialis compared to 31 percent who preferred Viagra.(4) Preference for Cialis was not affected by age, country, existing co-morbid conditions such as diabetes or cardiovascular disease, or previous sildenafil use.

    1) A Multicenter, Randomised, Double-blind, Crossover Study to Evaluate Patient Preference for Tadalafil versus Sildenafil. Alexander Von Keitz, MD; Jacob Rajfer, MD; Scott Segal, MD; Aileen Murphy, MPH; Jonathan Denne, PhD; Timothy Costigan, PhD; Daniel Lockhart, PhD; Charles Beasley, MD; Jeffrey T Emmick, MD, PhD. European Urology

    (2) This study was conducted at various centers in the United States and Europe. It was not designed to compare or measure the efficacy of the products, but was focused solely on patient preference.

    (3) What Patients Prefer and Why - Sildenafil (Viagra) vs. Tadalafil (Cialis) vs. Vardenafil (Levitra) in a Post-Launch Real-Life Setting, Symposium presented at 6th European Society for Sexual Medicine. Istanbul, Turkey 16th-19th November 2003.

    (4) All patients in the Viagra groups were started on a 50 mg dose and given the opportunity to titrate up to 100 mg. Titration to 100 mg sildenafil was capped at 35 percent to reflect European dispensing patterns at the time of the study. There was no statistical difference in preference for Cialis for those who did not request titration, those who received titration, or were denied titration.

    (5) Ströberg P, Murphy A, Costigan T. Switching Patients with Erectile Dysfunction From Sildenafil Citrate to Tadalafil: Results of a European Multicenter Open-Label Study Investigating Patient Preference. Clinical Therapeutics 2003; 25 (11): 2724-2737

    (6) Govier F, Potempa A-J, Kaufman J, Denne J, Kovalenko P, Ahuja S. A double-blind, multicenter, crossover study to evaluate patient preference for tadalafil 20 mg versus sildenafil 50 mg during treatment initiation for erectile dysfunction. Clinical Therapeutics 2003; 25 (11): 2709-2723

    (7) IMS NPA Plus 7(TM), March 2004

    (8) Aytac Ia, McKinlay JB, Krane RJ. The Likely Worldwide Increase in Erectile Dysfunction Between 1995 and 2025 and Some Possible Policy Consequences. BJU Int 1999; 84: 50-56.

    (9) Impotency Information from NIH. NIH Publication No. 03-3923, November 2002.

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    smiler is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SexyKitty
    I believe we have a missunderstanding here.

    If you look at my post, I did not refer once to half lives, nor did I refer to duration of an erection. I refered to DURATION OF ACTION, which is very different. So basically with cialis, you have the ABILITY to get an erection for 36 hours, your not hard for 2 days....you can just more easily get hard for 2 days especially if you dont have ED. usually people exagerate and say sh*t like "I was hard for 2 days", and especially if your on test and a PDE5, damn right your gonna be getting hard a lot!

    It just so happens with Viagra the HALF LIFE and DURATION OF EFFICACY is both 4 hours. To be specific, duration of efficacy is 1-4 hours.

    A near constant erection, also known as Priaprism is an erection that lasts more than 4 hours and is not typically associated with any of hte PDE5 drugs. If this happens, you got problems and should go to a doctor,
    an erection more than 4 hrs is a problem, but i think you need a different female not nessesarily a doctor. (unless your doc is hot ofcourse)

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    Quote Originally Posted by SexyKitty

    A near constant erection, also known as Priaprism is an erection that lasts more than 4 hours and is not typically associated with any of hte PDE5 drugs. If this happens, you got problems and should go to a doctor,
    priapism is a CONSTANT, not near constant, and usually quite PAINFUL erection.

    the original post, indicated "hard for 2 days". this is not typical of cialis, cialis is much milder than viagra, which typically causes a 2-4hr 'hard-on", with enhanced erectile response for 2-10hrs (more with first dosage- true of most drugs- ie. initial exposure= longer half life.)

    it is perhaps the original posters lack of proper description that led to any confusion. Though that does not change the innacuracy of your post.

    as a note- viagra's duration of significant action is more like 8-12hrs, same for levitra. The highest blood levels typically exist during the first 1-5hrs (depending on method of administration, fillers, binders, tablets/capsule dispersion, permeability of gastrointestinal tract,..etc.). for more rapid action chewing of tablets is usually reccomended.


    as a note- with respect to half life- some drugs like nolva and clomid actually have longer half lives with extended use-

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejuiceisloose
    73 Percent of Men with ED Preferred Lilly ICOS' Cialis over Viagra, Published Head-to-Head Clinical Trial Showed


    LONDON, March 23 /PRNewswire/ -- Lilly ICOS LLC (NYSE: LLY and Nasdaq: ICOS) -- In a newly published clinical study, 73 percent of men preferred 20 mg tablets of Cialis(R) (tadalafil) over Viagra(R) (sildenafil citrate) for treatment of their erectile dysfunction (ED)(1) after receiving treatment with both products. The double-blind, randomised, crossover study, published online today in European Urology, evaluated men's preference between two oral ED treatment options, Cialis (tadalafil), developed by Lilly ICOS, or Viagra.(2) These data add to a growing body of evidence relating to patient preference among oral ED treatments. The results of these studies parallel the increasing use of Cialis and growing market share worldwide.

    European Urology is a peer-reviewed medical journal published monthly. It is the official journal of the European Association of Urology, which hosts its annual meeting March 24-27 in Vienna, Austria.

    "Nearly three-quarters of men in this study preferred Cialis, and the study design for this head-to-head trial is one of the most rigorous to date," said lead author Alexander Von Keitz, M.D., from Marburg, Germany. "As the body of patient preference studies among the oral ED therapies grows, we continue to learn more about which of the drugs men prefer and why they prefer them."

    These results follow an independent study in which Cialis was preferred more than the other two oral ED treatments, Levitra(R) (vardenafil) and Viagra.(3) In interim results of one study, 222 participants, 44 percent preferred Cialis, 32 percent Levitra and 14 percent Viagra. Only 10 percent expressed no preference but these patients responded poorly to all three treatments. In the study, the primary reason cited by 75 percent of patients who preferred Cialis was its extended period of effectiveness. These results were obtained in a study in which men tried all three currently available PDE5 inhibitors, and doctors provided them the opportunity to choose which one they preferred for continued treatment. The study's investigator, Professor Hartmut Porst, a private urological/andrological physician in Hamburg, Germany, and associate professor of urology at the University of Bonn, is one of the world's leading ED specialists.

    Details of the Von Keitz study

    In the Von Keitz study, sponsored by Lilly ICOS, 181 patients (out of a total of 219 patients randomised in the original 12-week assessment phase) chose to remain on a specific ED treatment through the completion of the double-blinded extension phase of the trial. Of this group, 73 percent (132/181) preferred 20 mg Cialis, and 27 percent (49/181) preferred Viagra (p<0.001). In a subgroup of patients who titrated up from 50 mg to 100 mg Viagra during the study, 69 percent of men preferred Cialis compared to 31 percent who preferred Viagra.(4) Preference for Cialis was not affected by age, country, existing co-morbid conditions such as diabetes or cardiovascular disease, or previous sildenafil use.

    1) A Multicenter, Randomised, Double-blind, Crossover Study to Evaluate Patient Preference for Tadalafil versus Sildenafil. Alexander Von Keitz, MD; Jacob Rajfer, MD; Scott Segal, MD; Aileen Murphy, MPH; Jonathan Denne, PhD; Timothy Costigan, PhD; Daniel Lockhart, PhD; Charles Beasley, MD; Jeffrey T Emmick, MD, PhD. European Urology

    (2) This study was conducted at various centers in the United States and Europe. It was not designed to compare or measure the efficacy of the products, but was focused solely on patient preference.

    (3) What Patients Prefer and Why - Sildenafil (Viagra) vs. Tadalafil (Cialis) vs. Vardenafil (Levitra) in a Post-Launch Real-Life Setting, Symposium presented at 6th European Society for Sexual Medicine. Istanbul, Turkey 16th-19th November 2003.

    (4) All patients in the Viagra groups were started on a 50 mg dose and given the opportunity to titrate up to 100 mg. Titration to 100 mg sildenafil was capped at 35 percent to reflect European dispensing patterns at the time of the study. There was no statistical difference in preference for Cialis for those who did not request titration, those who received titration, or were denied titration.

    (5) Ströberg P, Murphy A, Costigan T. Switching Patients with Erectile Dysfunction From Sildenafil Citrate to Tadalafil: Results of a European Multicenter Open-Label Study Investigating Patient Preference. Clinical Therapeutics 2003; 25 (11): 2724-2737

    (6) Govier F, Potempa A-J, Kaufman J, Denne J, Kovalenko P, Ahuja S. A double-blind, multicenter, crossover study to evaluate patient preference for tadalafil 20 mg versus sildenafil 50 mg during treatment initiation for erectile dysfunction. Clinical Therapeutics 2003; 25 (11): 2709-2723

    (7) IMS NPA Plus 7(TM), March 2004

    (8) Aytac Ia, McKinlay JB, Krane RJ. The Likely Worldwide Increase in Erectile Dysfunction Between 1995 and 2025 and Some Possible Policy Consequences. BJU Int 1999; 84: 50-56.

    (9) Impotency Information from NIH. NIH Publication No. 03-3923, November 2002.
    Cialis is a much milder and DISCREET drug. And there are obvious advantages to the longer half life. Though for those with severe erectile problems, viagra is a better choice.

  28. #28
    SexyKitty's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=macrophage69alpha]priapism is a CONSTANT, not near constant, and usually quite PAINFUL erection.

    the original post, indicated "hard for 2 days". this is not typical of cialis, cialis is much milder than viagra, which typically causes a 2-4hr 'hard-on", with enhanced erectile response for 2-10hrs (more with first dosage- true of most drugs- ie. initial exposure= longer half life.)

    it is perhaps the original posters lack of proper description that led to any confusion. Though that does not change the innacuracy of your post.

    as a note- viagra's duration of significant action is more like 8-12hrs, same for levitra. The highest blood levels typically exist during the first 1-5hrs (depending on method of administration, fillers, binders, tablets/capsule dispersion, permeability of gastrointestinal tract,..etc.). for more rapid action chewing of tablets is usually reccomended.
    QUOTE]



    OK, this will be my last point then I give up. My intentions are to answer questions, not confuse things so iether I am not answering clearly or you are not understanding me.

    There was nothing innacurate about my post, I just try to keep things simple. I said it before and I will say it again, I was refering to DURATION OF ACTION, not HALF LIFE, not PLASMA CONCENTRATION, not DURATION THE ERECTION WILL LAST FOR or the hardness of the erection. I get my infor from the product monographs and studies so my infor is accurate.

    I'm not sure where you get your info on how long the erection caused by each drug lasts for, ie "2-4 hour hard on" but I know this is not something that is studied. The erection should last only until one has sex! Also, the peak plasma concentration of viagra and the other pde5's are 2 hours, check the monographs. This is irrelevant anyway as peak plasma concentration is not related to efficacy, but does certainly coincide with how long any side effects will last for. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one but the duration of action of viagra is 1-6 hours, not 8-12.

    So, to summarize and to keep it simple:

    Viagra - shorter acting
    Cialis - longer acting (not refering to how long your erection lasts for but how long it enhances your ability to get an erection)

    You can only use personal experience to decide on "which one is stronger" as there are no head to head studies and you must be aroused (even a little aroused) for them to work.

    Geeze....talk about complicating a simple question

  29. #29
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    RE: Cialis Yes, it doesn't make u aroused and therefor theoritically it would not help if someone had ED post-cycle ( which is from LOW TEST and therefor no arousal ) But I M still HOPING some users can say 1st-hand that it works anyway during those roughest few weeks of PCT when things just aren't working. If so, then I'd want to get hold of some as a backup for when i end cycle. Can anyone help???

  30. #30
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    fu<k - no wonder my 15 squirts has been lasting 4-5 days!
    I think that although cialis doesn't directly affect libido, I find having a semi / more regular boners all day makes you think about sex more giving an indirect increase in libido.

    Also - I've never had any probs getting it up - even when I've been drinking etc...... however popping some cialis before a night out does wonders for your confidence with the ladies - you just have that air of certainty about how good you are in the sack - and chicks pick up on that.
    Last edited by Duke of Earl; 06-14-2005 at 06:19 PM.

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    [QUOTE=SexyKitty]
    Quote Originally Posted by macrophage69alpha

    I'm not sure where you get your info on how long the erection caused by each drug lasts for, ie "2-4 hour hard on" but I know this is not something that is studied. The erection should last only until one has sex!
    this goes to show that you have no experience with these drugs. For instance Viagra generally allows for ZERO refractory period. And quite often results in a nearly constant erection for the duration of its effects. Many users report constant erection for the duration.

    quoting monographs is fine but you must keep in mind that most of those studies are done on older men with erectile dsyfunction due in great part to systemic decline from age. Most of the people that use these drugs on these forums are relatively young 18-40 and either dont have ED or use the drugs to prevent ED issues stemming from AS use.

  32. #32
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    dudes, viagra makes you constantly hard for 4 hours. cialis just gives you the ability to perform at the right time...with me the only problem is that even thinking of sex or just a female touching my leg makes me pitch a tent. even at the f*cking office i've been walking around with a hard-on if i had just thought about sex. i know it affects people in different ways, but i took a 20mg pill on sunday and it is now thursday and still going just as good. these pills are the best for a long week or weekend of endless sex. doesn't matter if you are tired/sleepy/drunk/not in the mood...you will be able to go on and on. if you just want a little help for one session of sweet love-making (or raw sex), just take half the dosage and it will work great. hopefully the stuff from AR-R works just as well, bc i just got my shipment. happy bonin' fellas.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by trippyx
    dudes, viagra makes you constantly hard for 4 hours. cialis just gives you the ability to perform at the right time...with me the only problem is that even thinking of sex or just a female touching my leg makes me pitch a tent. even at the f*cking office i've been walking around with a hard-on if i had just thought about sex. i know it affects people in different ways, but i took a 20mg pill on sunday and it is now thursday and still going just as good. these pills are the best for a long week or weekend of endless sex. doesn't matter if you are tired/sleepy/drunk/not in the mood...you will be able to go on and on. if you just want a little help for one session of sweet love-making (or raw sex), just take half the dosage and it will work great. hopefully the stuff from AR-R works just as well, bc i just got my shipment. happy bonin' fellas.
    Follow up with us and let us know how their stuff works out. I'm planning to order some myself.

  34. #34
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    Someone answer forsz ... I need to know that same thing.

  35. #35
    trippyx is offline Junior Member
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    yes it works PCT like magic. try it, you wont regret it

  36. #36
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    I took 40 mg last sunday and still am popin boners like nothin..can't even ride the bike at the gymw ith getting one

  37. #37
    jrock38 is offline Associate Member
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    I have 100ml @ 30mg per ml...I have tried it at 15mg and the full 30mg with not much difference. It definately helps when off cycle as I am currently in pct and wood is poppin all the time.....too bad wife doesnt want sex all the time.....

    Its definately worth trying...

  38. #38
    co2boi's Avatar
    co2boi is offline Anabolic Member
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    Prop does everything listed above for me, plus it helps me get buff so I get more stuff

  39. #39
    Cracker Jak is offline New Member
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    bump

  40. #40
    Dally's Avatar
    Dally is offline The Dally Lama
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    [QUOTE=macrophage69alpha]thank you for the lesson on half lives.

    incorrect though it may be-
    clinicals show viagra and levitra to have a 4-5hr HALF LIFE.
    Cialis has a mean half life of 17.5hrs in healthy mean though this varies considerably and hence why many users report strong effects lasting 30-100hrs.

    the effect of a near constant erection is not associated with CIALIS, it is however commonly associated with viagra.[/QUOTE]

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brianna
    20 mg is enough.....I took one and was hard for 2 days....

    where you commented

    then it probably was not cialis. that is an effect more commonly associated with viagra.



    the comment of 20mg dose of WHATEVER it was that made the user hard for 2 days....is where this all went out the window and there really is NO need to be rude there pal to SK who is simply trying to help answer the SPECIFIC question.

    The comment is not clear.

    assuming it was cialis at 20mg the recommended dose, it is not possible to be hard (assuming constantly) for 2 days which is more of a viagra side like you said, but not really considering it won't last 2 days.
    Last edited by Dally; 06-16-2005 at 01:32 PM.

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