first cycle but i dont wanna take test...

**Safety31** · 06-25-2005, 11:14 PM

right now im trying to cut and i want to take something to assist in my cutting..im 5'9 and was 220 when starting to cut..im about 210-215 now..i know when starting with steriods they say you should do a test only cycle but i dont wanna do that because i dont wanna gain any weight..so what do you guys think would be good for me?

**pound4lb.** · 06-25-2005, 11:46 PM

If you don't want to put on "any" weight, why juice at all? Diet, cardo, and clen should do the trick, no?

**Recklace** · 06-25-2005, 11:47 PM

that or, take some var or possibly Winny

**Two4the$$** · 06-25-2005, 11:52 PM

VAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or EQ @ 600mg weekly and Test at 150mg... AND the var. That would be a NICE hardening cycle.

**ChefJ** · 06-26-2005, 12:00 AM

test prop at 150mg eod and var at 50mgs ed and you will be very happy with your hardness and vascularity.

**chris2wire** · 06-26-2005, 12:06 AM

Take an oral like Var or tbol, it will preserve mass while you diet well and do cardio to lose fat.

**Safety31** · 06-26-2005, 12:06 AM

wheres the var at on the steriods profile?

**chris2wire** · 06-26-2005, 12:15 AM

its called anavar

**BigPancho** · 06-26-2005, 12:19 AM

How's your diet? Not bein' a smartass by any means, but a lotta times, it just ends up bein' somethin' that can be corrected with diet.

Steroids don't really help lose fat. Yeah, more muscle burns more calories, but that entails adding weight. Most folks use anabolics to "cut" due to the large caloric defecits they put themselves into, and don't want to lose the muscle they've gained from previous cycles. But, one can lose naturally and effectively with a good diet/training regiment.

I'm gettin' ready to start another cycle. I laid off for a while, got lazy due to work, life, etc., and added way too much bodyfat. Dropped 60 lbs thru hard work, cycling clen with keto and ECA stacks. Still wanna lose another 15-20 or so, but there's definitely a light at the end of the tunnel.

Just remember, the gear isn't so much what makes a "cutter" or "bulker". Diet & training are the keys to losing weight or gaining weight.

BigPancho

**Safety31** · 06-26-2005, 12:21 AM

my diet is good..based it on the cutting diet on the diet forum..i do cardio at 4 times a week...been doing this for about 2 weeks now...

**Safety31** · 06-26-2005, 12:38 AM

im really interested in a tbol and var cycle now or just a var cycle...what do you guys think would be best with the least of side effects?

**newbrew** · 06-26-2005, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by pound4lb.

If you don't want to put on "any" weight, why juice at all? Diet, cardo, and clen should do the trick, no?

That usually has a catabolic effect as well. Using steroids to maintain weight but decrease bodyfat is still essentially gaining weight. It also puts the body into an anabolic state while going through intense cutting.

Seems like a good idea to me. (other than not using test)

**Recklace** · 06-26-2005, 10:27 AM

If your strictly wanting to just cut down, do more cardio and just take some var for least sides...if you wanting to cut down and maybe gains some mass take the tbol, might be a little more sides with the tbol though.

**Polska** · 06-26-2005, 10:32 AM

if you are really dead-set on not taking any test then anavar would be the best way to go about it. remember htpa will be affected so have your pct ready

**Safety31** · 07-01-2005, 04:33 PM

so with var you still need pct??how much does this stuff usually cost?

**longhorn814** · 07-01-2005, 04:50 PM

var is probably one of the most expensive steroids there is. Run some test prop, you'll love the results and you can get cut without losing muscle.

**Charged_UP** · 07-02-2005, 01:48 AM

I know u will love var if those are ur goals, the only other thing that will help is the reccomended addition of winny or prop. But with these products, which i call luxury sauce, comes a nice hit to ur pocket. Besides a low does of dbols will not suddenly make u huge. Dbols u can regulate the does as u see the results since they are oral, a very strict diet will prevent u from getting size, and since every compound ive listed has a different method of burning fat u can be assured nice results. There is a huge difference from Enanthate and Cyp when ur talking about test vs. a low does of dbols to spice up ur cycle just a bit.

**hellapimpin** · 07-02-2005, 02:38 AM

prop!! don't want to gain weight, don't eat so much...eat normally and just gain strength. just make the muscle you have better!!

**QuieTSToRM33** · 07-02-2005, 03:48 AM

i say prop as well ... maybe throw in some var/tbol/winny

**Defconx3** · 07-02-2005, 03:51 AM

My vote goes to prop as well. You will love it, its great and its cheap. If you want to, go ahead and through in some var or winny along with it.

**Safety31** · 07-03-2005, 02:46 PM

yea but i dont want to inject and i want something with the least side effects..im not looking for dramtic results just alittle help with how i want my body to look..var sounds like its what i want..everyone says its expensive but how expensive is it??and how long do i take it...what would be a typical var cycle

**russia dog** · 07-03-2005, 03:10 PM

how good is anavar ???
is 20mg anavar for 4 week effective to see some fatloss, vascular, strength gain?

i

**Safety31** · 07-03-2005, 07:12 PM

?????

**Two4the$$** · 07-04-2005, 04:03 AM

good question about 4 weeks of var... I think it's actually the right amount of time as a result of the hapatoxic effect that would occur if run much LONGER than 4 weeks, like 6 maybe... Anyway, I think the 4 weeks would be fine at a higher dose. 40-60mg probably ...

**newbrew** · 07-04-2005, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Safety31

yea but i dont want to inject and i want something with the least side effects..im not looking for dramtic results just alittle help with how i want my body to look..var sounds like its what i want..everyone says its expensive but how expensive is it??and how long do i take it...what would be a typical var cycle

If you dont want to inject then steroids are not for you.

Man up or stay natural, steroids arent for GIRLY MEN!

**Two4the$$** · 07-04-2005, 07:04 PM

No offense Newbrew... but I can't 100% agree with you. I would say it's a BETTER decision to be willing to contend with the slight pain... but he'll still get results, no?

**newbrew** · 07-05-2005, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

No offense Newbrew... but I can't 100% agree with you. I would say it's a BETTER decision to be willing to contend with the slight pain... but he'll still get results, no?

I think steroid use is a very serious issue that shouldnt be taken lightly. The reason I dont agree with oral only cycles is because they are usually sought after by kids whom a) arent truly serious, b) arent responsible enough or mature enough to deal with the sort of precautions that are necessary with steroid use. People who seek oral only cycles because they are affraid of a needle (btw, my glute and quad shots are 100% painless) strike me as the type of people who arent really that serious about lifting. If you think a poke in the ass with a 25g needle is 'pain', than I highly doubt he has the sort of training desire or life experience to be playing around with steroids . Perhaps he should try some Yoga instead, its a little safer than lifting weights and not as painful.

So no. Putting your body through the harm of a steroid simply because you want a slight 'boost' and maybe an extra 2.5 pounds doesnt really agree with me. Judging from my own limited cycle experience with injectables, I do not believe an oral (anavar ) only cycle will yield the sort of results that are worth the legal and health issues associated with steroids. It's all risk vs. gain for me, as it should be for everyone.

On a side note....if he had an actual legit reason for using them...perhaps a competing athlete, for example, I would probably advocate the use of this oral only 'cycle' a little more. I don't agree with steroid use just so someone can help achieve an alpha status amongst their frat 'brothers'.

**SwoleCat** · 07-05-2005, 09:20 AM

Well said newbrew!

~SC~

**The Baron** · 07-05-2005, 10:47 AM

test does not make you gain weight. It assists you in gaining weight if you are in a caloric surplus. A maintainence level diet, maintained and adjusted, will by definition not allow any bodyweight gain. You could gain some lean mass and lose some fat and still not have a net gain of bodyweight. You can even cut on test. You can even cut on test alone! It is all about diet. Some drugs have a reputation for being better cutters or better bulkers, but it is a matter of degree. The key is always diet.

Try a prop cycle, 6-8 weeks, 75 to 100mg ED. Maybe lean toward the low end of that range. You could even go down to 50mg/ED. I would shoot ED, definitely, but some users will shoot EOD.

To maintain your weight, simply weigh yourself at the same time each and every morning, preferably always right after your morning piss. Graph the results. Your weight will fluctuate a lot from day to day just from water weight and food in your gut, but we will average out these anomalies. Run a line across several recent points on your graph, intersecting or approaching as closely as possible as many points as possible. On that line, for any given day, is your "virtual weight". Compare week by week and simply adjust cals as necessary.

For this to work well, you will have to run a bit of nolva to help keep off the water. Yes, it goes away all by itself at the end of the cycle, but that is of little help when you are trying to fine tune your bodyweight and caloric intake. I usually prefer a beginner NOT run nolva, but just have it on hand in case of gyno symptoms, so the user can determine exactly how the test affects him and particularly hos susceptible to gyno he is. Otherwise nolva has many other benefits that recommend it.

HOWEVER, I do agree with others here that you can get stellar results through proper diet and training, and it is easier, I think, to do what you want to do without the added complication of AAS use.

**Drummerboy** · 07-05-2005, 11:47 AM

man, just take 50mg var a day, and if you still want your test levels up, take like 300mg week of whatever test you want. after about 10 weeks of that, with high protien, low carb, low fat, cardio 30 min every day, weights 4 times week and proper clomid PCT with Clen (2 weeks on 2 off for like 6 weeks at least)
Proper diet and training is YOUR main focus. You are trying to grow a bit of QUALITY muscle, keep it, and burn a bunch of fat, right? well, this well work for you IMO. I personally am adding tren to this combo, but im looking at gaining 15 pds before i cut with the clen.... good luck and dont let anyone flame you cause your new at this!!! oh ya, i hope your in your mid 20's, cause its no good to do AAS before then... i waited till 26...

**Baller9** · 07-05-2005, 06:03 PM

What can be expected from Var only? At 40 mg ed? Sides and gains.

**jinos** · 07-05-2005, 09:10 PM

Agreed with newbrew. If you're ready to stick it, you're not ready for AS at all. I'll take injections over orals anyday. Even if the injections are hella painful. No pain, no gain.

**Safety31** · 07-07-2005, 01:22 PM

look im not looking for a freakish gain..i play college football and im just looking for alittle gain by taking anavar ...some of you guys keep saying no pain no gain blah blah blah...whatever...theres a reason there are such things called oral steriods because some people dont wanna do injections or have the side effects some of the injections can give you..i just wanna take anavar which from what ive read has very few side effects..it would be my first time taking steriods so i just wanna start off small and not have to do injections every couple of days for weeks and weeks..i just want to start off with a low side oral like anavar and see how it goes

**Two4the$$** · 07-07-2005, 04:05 PM

Dude, if you feel confident that this drug meets your criteria for your goals, do it. I'm not your advisor, and I think it's safe to say no one here wants to be unless you're going to pay for it. Ask us the pros, cons, fundamentals, and our experiences prospective and we'll give it to you. But I'm not your guidance counselor... That being said, Var works. It does. It's that simple. It's low on the continuum of potential LBM gains, and the duration has to be short because it's 17AA. You'll get a little leaner, you'll get a little stronger, and you'll gain some muscle. The thing people are saying here is as follows.

If pain is a higher priority to you than risks, we fear your decision making ability.
If your goal is on the low end as far as LBM, why do AAS and take the risks?
Do your homework, and ask a lot of questions, and be humble.

In case it's not 100% clear already, this message is mainly directed to NewBrew and Safety.

I have to say tho, with a name like safety, you'd think preserving your liver would be the first goal.

**Safety31** · 07-08-2005, 12:32 AM

lol safety as in the position i play in football..good one though truman..thanks for the info..so truman how whats a good cycle for anavar

**Two4the$$** · 07-08-2005, 03:56 AM

I've only used it for a few weeks at the end of my last cycle. It should be effective for these goals with the following dosage...

10mg ED, nearly a bridging volume, although that should be a thing of the past.
20mg ED, Adequate to keep muscle while leaning out, or to gain a little while bulking.
40mg ED, You should get some results, probably max about 4 - 6 pounds in 6 weeks.
60mg ED, If your diets in check, you'll probably get 4 - 6 pounds.
80mg ED, Maybe more...?

Basically, what I'm trying to express, is that this is anywhere from a bridging drug, up to a light gaining drug... but not likely to be much more than that.

Remember this tho, it's a medical fact that to gain 4% of your body weight in a year in actual LBM is about the human threshold. That % by the way, is if your diet is excellent, your training is optimal for your body's needs, you're CONSISTENT, and are taking advantage of the fact that your FIRST year you will get faster growth than all the successive years of training. So, I'm sure you're past that... I actually used to play wide receiver at SMC, which isn't saying much, but it is a pretty intense little Jr. College, with about 30k students to choose from when making their team.

So, when you take that aforementioned HUMAN capacity to gain LBM, and then go back to looking at your plan... it's not horrible. It could skip you past 18 months of hard training. Anyway, what you should also REALLY consider, is HGH. It doesn't require the larger gauge needles, it uses an insulin needle, which is so fu(king small that you'll hardly feel it. So, consider that... it has SO many good effects it's unreal. REPAIR INJURIES is one of them... make you leaner, give you more muscle cells etc.

But hey man, this is it. You really didn't come here asking which one to use, you came here asking us to endorse your plan. Do it already. it's not perfect, but you'll get anavar -type results out of it. You know they're going to be modest gains. No ones going to say, "hey, have you been training harder lately?" It will be very subtle. The scale will have a difficult time measuring your progress, cause you might get a little leaner... so take a before and after. Show us the results.

It's not my first recommendation to you, but it's what you want to do.