Printable View
Hey Bros - I am currently running 850mg Test, and 600mg EQ, on a cutter. This is my fourth cycle (25yo, 220lbs, 12% bf). Anyway, I am running Letro too at 1.25 ED, and have significant bloat, which I can no longer handle. I am thinking about dropping my Test to a maintenance dose of 250mg, and bumping the EQ to 800mg+. What do you guys think about this idea? Keep in mind I am cutting and only looking to retain muscle mass (and libido of course). Well?
sounds like a plan too me. in my opinion your body gets "saturated" at some point. where overkill comes into factor. the question is how much is enough to keep em comin, but not too much to be defeating the purpose? i would drop eq to400-600 range, and decrease test to 250-500 range. your at that point were water retention is a factor. also test at that high of a dose is defenitley a "bulking" situation in my opinion anyway. have you thought about winny also?
I have done winny once before at 50mg/ED, and it was pretty hard on my joints. If I had it laying around, I would probably go for it - but right now I am just going with what I have. Do you see water retention as a factor with such a high dose of EQ (800mg+)? Also, is EQ and lose dose test (250mg) enough to retain all or most of my muscle mass?Quote:
Originally Posted by cantqwit
I have never been a fan of those low dose test runs. I say keep your cycle exactly how it is now.
Take a diuretic before bed if you are really concerned, and lower your sodium intake. Those should help reduce bloat from the test.
The reasons you mention are the EXACT reasons why I do NOT use test any more. And I have no problems in doing so :)
I know from your posts you are a big fan of EQ. Do you have any experiences with higher doses (such as 800mg/wk), and if so, any estrogenic sides (i.e. bloat)?Quote:
Originally Posted by spooledup
To the top .... anyone?
......
I have ran as much as 600mg/wk.
I don't really notice a difference over 400-500mg.
Never had any sides except high BP which I was able to control.
What KIND of test are you running?Quote:
Originally Posted by RYNO
No one asked you that, and I believe THAT to be your bloat issue.
I know people who compete on 400-500mgs of PROP, 500 EQ, and they are BONE DRY.
If you aren't using prop, therein lies your Nemo factor.
~SC~
Running Test Cyp., which does seem to bloat more than others, but I have run prop as well at 100mg/ED and still bloated (albeit less than on Cyp/Enan). I think I may just be prone to it. Also, I have read various article indicating that estrogen may not be the only culprit for bloat but rather, androgens themselves can also cause bloating (even non-aromatizing androgens). Any thoughts on this?Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoleCat
I wonder what u think is a high does of test then. I would swell like a balloon on just 3 shots of cyp.
I am running 850mg cyp/week, but I have ran a gram before. It is the bloat in the face that I really can't stand. Normally I have a chiseled face, now my head looks like a pumpkin - not cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charged_UP
Evidently it's the cyp, and 850 is a big dose. You must be 250lbs.+ in weight to be using that much, because you don't need that much as there soon becomes a point of diminishing returns. Running prop at 500 or so a week would do the same result wise for you if your diet is in correct order, and you could avoid a lot, if not all, of the pumpkinhead look.
~SC~
I agree with your initial plan of lowering the test. Maybe 250 is too low though. I'm not sure that raising the eq will have a very noticeable effect in decreasing water tension. I am in favor of adding winny.
Yes winny will help a little, I cant imagine how i would act or let alone react on a gram per week. But i grow easily. Just cram down some tamoxifen, ull be good. I also found 600 or more of EQ doesnt really do much extra.
[QUOTE=SwoleCat]Evidently it's the cyp, and 850 is a big dose. You must be 250lbs.+ in weight to be using that much, because you don't need that much as there soon becomes a point of diminishing returns. Running prop at 500 or so a week would do the same result wise for you if your diet is in correct order, and you could avoid a lot, if not all, of the pumpkinhead look.
~SC~[/QUOTE
I believe you are right about the diminishing returns. I am currently around 220 lbs (12%) and cutting. I am following the cutting sticky "to the T" and have seen excellent results. I am running the gear to maintain muscle mass, although I have lost some strength after starting clen last week. Do you feel EQ (600-800) and a low dose of test (250-500) is sufficient to retain muscle. 850mg Test is too high for me as the sides are starting to kick in.