Thread: Super Stack? Look it over
04-22-2002, 10:05 PM #1
Super Stack? Look it over
This "Super Stack" was found while i was searching for some new stacks...... Look over it for me and give me yer advice/2 Cents
Super Stack – Gain at least 30 lbs. AND KEEP IT ALL!
What you will need:
24 amps of Sustanon 250
16 amps primo
14 amps winstrol
Tip: You may want to add in some B-12 to each Sus shot, it will help boost your immune system, increase your appetite, and will help minimize pain at the injection site the next day (from the prop in the sus).
How it works:
Week 1: This week is funky. You have to quickstart, so do 2 amps Sus on day 1 and another 2 amps on
Day 2. Every day this week, do 8 d-ball (4 after breakfast, and 4 after dinner);
1 tab clomid per day (throughout the cycle).
Week 2: Stay with 8 d-ball per day, and do 500mg sus on Monday and again on Thursday.
Week 3: Same as week 2
Week 4: This is your last week of d-ball. Shots of sus stay the same.
Week 5: No d-ball. Monday = 500mg sus; Tuesday = 200 mg primo; Wednesday = nothing;
Thursday = 500 mg sus, Friday = 200 mg primo
Week 6: Last week of sus. Same as week 5.
Week 7: Start winny – 1 amp everyday, Keep primo on Tuesdays and Fridays
Week 8: Same as week 7
Weeks 9 – 10: Creatine (20g per day) and glutamine (40g per day)
Why it works: the deep geek stuff
Let’s roughly classify steroids in two ways – Androgen Receptor (AR)
mediated, and non-AR mediated.
AR-mediated action occurs on the cellular level, affecting DNA transcript
thus stimulating growth.
Non-AR mediated mechanisms are various (and some are not understood yet),
but one would be inhibiting the effects that glucocorticoids have upon
muscle tissue. In other words, they prevent glucocorticoids from increasing
glutamine synthetase and causing muscle tissue breakdown. This would be an
So first of all you want a ********* compound that binds to the AR, such as
Testosterone , Deca , Trenbolone etc. Their affinity or binding to the AR is
different, making Deca and Tren more effective on a mg per mg basis than
Testosterone. Trenbolone is said to be 3 times as effective than
Testosterone. My view is that 500mg/week of Testosterone will be close to
saturation of the receptor, but let’s consider this for a second…
The number of receptors is related to genetics and muscle mass, so someone
300lbs would need more than a 200lbs guy to saturate the receptors, right?
There is also evidence that high levels of androgens in the body,
upregulates or sensitizes the receptor, as will some steroids (which make
some stacks more efficient than others), and of course heavy weight
training – IMPORTANT! This last issue is the reason why you should probably
train for a few years to get closer to what you can achieve naturally, since
this will make more AR available for growth potential.
You can not argue with 1000mg of Testosterone being more effective than
500mg, even in beginners. And the fact is that your 1st, or virginal cycle
will be your best one since you are further away from your genetic potential
than someone with a few cycles under his belt. Saying that you should limit
dosage on your first cycle for allowing higher dosage in later cycles just
doesn’t sound right to me – after all, a gram a week would get you faster to
your genetic potential if you’re not already there.
Going beyond this level, however – say someone who is 40lbs over what he
could achieve naturally - would need this much just to sustain what he
already has. But his receptors will also be more sensitized and upregulated
both due to more muscle mass, more training, and higher levels of androgens
in his body on previous cycles. This will make it both more effective – as
well as possible – to go with higher dosages. I find that in the long term,
after ending drug use, he'll end up splitting the difference between his
drug-assisted peak and what he could have achieved naturally. He'll be able
to maintain at least 1/3 and probably 1/2 of his gains.
This is probably due to increased nucleation of muscle cells and to
differentiation of satellite cells into mature muscle cells. Both these
changes are permanent and, in my opinion, give a lasting advantage to the
The KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) is hard to contradict, since a
gram a week of T will probably give the greatest gains via AR-mechanism, and
some additional non-AR mediated effects. Of course, adding in something like
Deca at 400mg/week (which I consider close to maximum considering
progestronic activity), with somewhat higher affinity for the AR – you
reduce the dosage of T. Deca, of course, doesn’t aromatize much – but you
still get water-retention due to it’s progestronic activity. You can reduce
this by using Winstrol, which appears to block this effect almost entirely.
I personally stay away from Deca for various reasons I’m not going to
Maybe adding some Dianabol here (which works primarily via non-AR action)
gives a great stack – at 40-50mg/day in divided dosages. D-bol also works
synergistically with both Testosterone and Deca, but limit its use to 4
weeks since it is 17 alpha alkylated and will be toxic to the liver. As for
other orals, on a mg for mg basis I use the following for comparing
Dianabol (methandrostenolone )… 20-35 mg, Winstrol (stanozolol )… 30-65 mg,
Anavar (oxandrolone)… 20-35 mg, Primobolan (methenolone acetate)… 100-200
mg, Halotestin (fluoxymesterone)… 15-25 mg, Methyltestosterone … 75 mg,
Anadrol (Oxymetholone) 50mg.
Using a constant dosage of a long-acting esters such as Sustanon will cause
levels in the body to accumulate slowly to a peak at the 2 week point. Doing
a double or triple injection on Day 1 – or using propionate during this time
period will get levels high initially, thus imitating levels at the 2 week
point. Levels will steadily decrease for about 2 weeks after the last
injection too, depending on your dosage – so either you should use
propionate for making the transition from high levels/gaining to low
levels/recovery as fast as possible.
Another choice would be to use Primobolan for coming off, since it has low
inhibition of the HPTA axis and subsequently might solidify gains
Using Testosterone and D-bol will cause various problems such as
water-retention, inhibition of natural T production, and gyno. Clomid is an
agonist to the estrogen-receptor, as well as stimulating LH release and
improving blood lipid profile, but does not produce an estrogenic response.
So when you're using ********* compounds that aromatize, Clomid will reduce
the side effects associated with this (water-retention, gyno etc. ), as well
as reducing testicular atrophy. This happens from day 1 of using such
steroids, so why anyone thinks using Clomid AFTER 8-12 weeks of the estrogen
floating around in your body will help - is beyond me...
As for HCG , (which is mainly used for preventing testicular atrophy) the
theory of large doses for post-cycle is flawed. Read the research on this
before you flame me! There's a huge increase in estrogen - with the
subsequent need for anti-estrogens to counter this. A better approach is to
inject something like 500 IU's a day DURING the cycle - which would keep
your balls big and beautiful throughout.
But none of these measures prevent the downregulation of the hypothalamus
and pituitary, so limiting a cycle to 8-10 weeks is still necessary to
insure proper recovery of the HPTA axis.
Water-retention in the first weeks of the cycle is not necessarily evil,
since it will add to your strength – but towards the end it has been my
experience that hardening up will solidify gains more, being more healthy,
and giving you a better appearance. Note that some bodybuilders think
certain steroids work better based solely on the weight they gain. In
actuality, they could be just retaining a lot of water along with the muscle
gains. These are the same guys who think they "lose" a lot of muscle after
their cycle is completed, when they actually just lost much of the water
they'd been holding.
So a good choice for this phase of the cycle would be a transition to drugs
like Winstrol at 50mg/day (and I will probably never inject Winny again
since it has the same effect if you drink it in divided doses throughout the
day), Masteron /Permastril, Primo (at least 400mg, and as much as 1000mg/week
although expensive), Trenbolone(50mg/day will be close to saturate the
receptors, with 75mg/day being better).
With Testosterone as the base, I say 1000mg/week being optimal even for a
beginner at 200lbs and maybe a 2-3 years of consistent training. Adding in
other steroids that binds equally or better to the AR (Deca, Tren) – try to
achieve the same total dosage while considering mg per mg effectiveness.
Adding in non-AR mediated drugs would not necessarily mean that you need to
lower T dosage, but consider synergistic benefits to add to the
effectiveness of the cycle.
Going beyond your genetic potential, more training and steroid experience,
higher (lean) body mass, and experiencing lower response to steroids
(genetically fewer AR) = higher total dosage.
Cycle length: 2 week cycles takes advantage of the fact that there seems to
be a delay in the shut-down of endogenous Testosterone in the body, so
short-acting compounds can be used that will clear the system at the 2 week
From 3-7 weeks is where a lot of interesting things happen in the body that
primes it for further growth, so I really think 8 weeks is the minimal here.
Beyond 12 weeks, however, the hypothalamus and pituitary have been shutdown
for such a long time that recovery might be a problem. I usually recommend
10 weeks as optimal.
So that’s why I put together this specific cycle which I've seen amazing results with (3
other guys, not myself).
Last edited by bigkev; 04-23-2002 at 12:05 AM.
04-22-2002, 10:17 PM #2
I like the cycle if you ran the Sus for 8 weeks.......and the Winny for 3 weeks.
04-22-2002, 11:47 PM #3
Thanx MB... I figured this cycle could use some good ol Experiance-Tweaking... Anyone else with advice would be cool..
04-23-2002, 12:07 AM #4
injectable b12 is water based, sust is oil based. NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, MIX AND OIL BASE, AND WATER BASE, IN THE SAME SYRINGE. ever hear the old adage, oil and water dont mix? they dont.
04-23-2002, 12:46 PM #5
Yeah i have hrd it B4, But I have also done it too... Just to be a hard head... Didnt really see any diffrence... What exactly would it hurt?
Last edited by Khaoz; 04-23-2002 at 02:23 PM.
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