AS for daddy?

**dtr98** · 07-14-2005, 11:32 PM

i'm 47yrs old and my curret cycle is:
700mg test e wk
600mg eq wk
jump started with 40mg dbol for 4 wks
running test/eq 16wks or more
adding 50-75mg tren a ed at wk 8
and 50-60mg of winny last 6wks
500ius of hcg etd at wk 6 till end
1.25mg letro eod
10mg nolva ed
then pct

tell him to go for it, but keep an eye on him as everyone is different

**lochick87** · 07-15-2005, 03:12 AM

thank you to everyone for the replies and advice.

**toolman** · 07-15-2005, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Bird

Ok first off, this is my opinion im giving her just as, as confident as you may seem, you are only giveing an opinion. Im not a doctor, thats why i pasted info that was written by proffesionals. If you think its outdated look on other boards its the same there (the pasted info didnt apply to you anyway). Secondly yes I think it would be best for him to see a doctor- a doctor will know more than these boards,most of the time. Most of the time, the only thing a doctor may prescribe nolva for is breast cancer prevention or treatment. But do you use nolva and such medications to treat breast cancer? Doesnt nolva work to stimulate the hypothalamus thereby regenerateing natural testosterone production in the body? But nolva is used to stimulate nat test production after long cycles- periods when nat test levels are low and estrogen is high. The gh statement yes i was overexaggerating, I know that gh levels are depleted but not completely gone in old age. However, you have no point in this, my point was that gh is very effective and yes it is prescribed by doctors to older males for muscle regeneration/growth/ect. Your picking things out and focusing on me. What you should be more worried about is helping lochick87 out. In my humble opinion she would be better off listening to me than you. Finally, I dont believe its nessisary for you to go around touting your age when you have no idea how old I am. Age is only important to a degree as well-For example (this is only an example please dont take it litterally), a fourty year old construction worker might not compare to a 24 year old med school student.

Read again what Hooker said...it was not written by proffesionals. The reason you see it on other boards is no one has bothered to update it. If you note, it even says Nolva is an expensive compound. Further, yes Nolva is prescribed to males for treatment other than breast cancer, but it is nevere prescribed by HRT docs as the sole compound for treating testosterone reduction in older males as you suggested. I am not picking on you, I am just giving her the facts.

The age comment, Einstein, was to clarify that I am not far from her father in age and I have my bloodwork done regularly on cycle and have alot more experience than you if you feel at our age you do not create gh. Don't "overexaggerate" in your statements as you say, if you want to be understood or taken as credible. No need to tell me your age...you are either in your late teens or early twenties. I will even go as far to venture you are still a student if you believe that a 24 year old is superior to a 40 year old construction worker soley because he is a medical student. There are a few construction workers in my gym that know a hell of alot more about testosterone usage than most docs let alone scrubs. I finished my post grad studies at Wharton probably while you were still learning to drive. However that does not make me better than anyone with a lesser education than me, regardless of their age. That, son, is the ignorance of youth.

**dtr98** · 07-15-2005, 11:48 AM

ouch!!!

how true--- workers in my gym that know a hell of alot more about testosterone usage than most docs let alone scrubs.

asked my doc about getting some hgh and he didn't know what it was till i told him, and then he told my head would grow larger like barry bonds did.

Originally Posted by toolman

Read again what Hooker said...it was not written by proffesionals. The reason you see it on other boards is no one has bothered to update it. If you note, it even says Nolva is an expensive compound. Further, yes Nolva is prescribed to males for treatment other than breast cancer, but it is nevere prescribed by HRT docs as the sole compound for treating testosterone reduction in older males as you suggested. I am not picking on you, I am just giving her the facts.

The age comment, Einstein, was to clarify that I am not far from her father in age and I have my bloodwork done regularly on cycle and have alot more experience than you if you feel at our age you do not create gh. Don't "overexaggerate" in your statements as you say, if you want to be understood or taken as credible. No need to tell me your age...you are either in your late teens or early twenties. I will even go as far to venture you are still a student if you believe that a 24 year old is superior to a 40 year old construction worker soley because he is a medical student. There are a few construction workers in my gym that know a hell of alot more about testosterone usage than most docs let alone scrubs. I finished my post grad studies at Wharton probably while you were still learning to drive. However that does not make me better than anyone with a lesser education than me, regardless of their age. That, son, is the ignorance of youth.

**dirtyvegas** · 07-15-2005, 01:25 PM

give him some var and low doses of TEST .He will love it

**Dark Bird** · 07-15-2005, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by toolman

Read again what Hooker said...it was not written by proffesionals. The reason you see it on other boards is no one has bothered to update it. If you note, it even says Nolva is an expensive compound. Further, yes Nolva is prescribed to males for treatment other than breast cancer, but it is nevere prescribed by HRT docs as the sole compound for treating testosterone reduction in older males as you suggested. I am not picking on you, I am just giving her the facts.

The age comment, Einstein, was to clarify that I am not far from her father in age and I have my bloodwork done regularly on cycle and have alot more experience than you if you feel at our age you do not create gh. Don't "overexaggerate" in your statements as you say, if you want to be understood or taken as credible. No need to tell me your age...you are either in your late teens or early twenties. I will even go as far to venture you are still a student if you believe that a 24 year old is superior to a 40 year old construction worker soley because he is a medical student. There are a few construction workers in my gym that know a hell of alot more about testosterone usage than most docs let alone scrubs. I finished my post grad studies at Wharton probably while you were still learning to drive. However that does not make me better than anyone with a lesser education than me, regardless of their age. That, son, is the ignorance of youth.

OK so your 40. Regardless of your Godlike experience, your till arguing in circles with yourself here. First you say that doctors know best not info on some board-that info contributed by people of many profesions including construction workers. And then when I tell you that agree -yes they do know best- and I give you information that is scientific theory or perhaps even fact (nolva may stimulate the hypothalamus thereby regenerateing natural testosterone production in the body), you go back against your argument and tell me that doctors dont know best-many times construction workers or other professions do. OK, this was my point. I pointed out that while doctors do know best, just because doctors wont prescribe it to you, doesnt mean it wont work. Im still giving my opinion and backing it. I am confused about what your doing here. I might also add that you have no right to judge me on my age or profession because you really have no clue. Most of the time those quick to criticize others with arguments focusing on the individual rather than that individuals argument are lacking in education and often will try to find phantom factors to cover up or distract from their inadequacies. Wharton, really?

**toolman** · 07-15-2005, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Bird

OK so your 40. Regardless of your Godlike experience, your till arguing in circles with yourself here. First you say that doctors know best not info on some board-that info contributed by people of many profesions including construction workers. And then when I tell you that agree -yes they do know best- and I give you information that is scientific theory or perhaps even fact (nolva may stimulate the hypothalamus thereby regenerateing natural testosterone production in the body), you go back against your argument and tell me that doctors dont know best-many times construction workers or other professions do. OK, this was my point. I pointed out that while doctors do know best, just because doctors wont prescribe it to you, doesnt mean it wont work. Im still giving my opinion and backing it. I am confused about what your doing here. I might also add that you have no right to judge me on my age or profession because you really have no clue. Most of the time those quick to criticize others with arguments focusing on the individual rather than that. Wharton, really?

Yes son, that is where I received my MBA. You think too highly of yourself if you think I am trying to impress an internet stranger. However that should not impress anyone and that is my point. It is not where you get your sheepskin; it is what you do with it afterwards. It was addressing your condescending attitude that implied that a med student is more worthy than a 40 year old construction worker. You say again " individuals argument are lacking in education and often will try to find phantom factors to cover up or distract from their inadequacies" It is quite comical because again you are asserting that education immediately qualifies the individual. Again it shows your youth and lack of life experience to think this way. I sold my first company to a broker who never graduated high school and could buy and sell most "educated" people I know. When you grow up and leave the womb of the campus, you'll see how ignorant this belief of yours is.

Your opinion is not backed in any way or manner. Just saying that Nolvadex will stimulate the hypothalamus thereby regenerating (there is no 3rd e in this word Mr. Education) natural testosterone production in the body" means nothing. Who is to say that the hypothalamus is where the the breakdown in the HPTA communication resulting in testosterone production, is? The problem is, quite often, in the testes which are no longer capable of manufacturing enough testosterone...which would make your Nolvadex recommendation a useless risk of thrombosis. Neither the medical or bodybuilding community recommends using nolva like this. Your knowledge is clearly limited to opening pages of various steroid websites which are all regurgitating the same dated info. and you made a foolish post to sound like you know what you are talking about.

Lastly son, please show me where I said doctors know best? I believe quite the opposite. Remember half of all doctors finished in the bottom half of their class, internship, etc... You seem to idealize them which reinforces my belief that you are very young and still a student. My point was that HRT clinics, which are not your run of the mill docs but guys working outside of the box, do not even recommend what you are suggesting, let alone BBers. So where is your history, blood work or study buttressing the assertion made with this recommendation? Based on a hypothesis you developed after reading a dated profile on Nolvadex?!?

Age does not give me or anyone a godlike experience. I am here to learn and exchange ideas just like everyone else. There are many here who have forgotten more than I know. However when I see some young guy on here shooting off at the mouth like he knows what he is talking about, and giving bad advice, I feel it my duty to point out the error in his thinking. When you become child like and start calling names or insulting a man because of his age or education, which, quite clearly is superior to yours, then I like to make him look like the fool he is. Do not take it personally, but you strike me as a fool. Now grow up, move on and stop the verbal diarreah like advice of recommending Nolva instead of testosterone for HRT!

**tiger909** · 07-15-2005, 11:24 PM

if your dads 44...how old are you? 17-19? unless he had u when he was still in his teens or early 20s. just wondering

**Dark Bird** · 07-15-2005, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by toolman

Yes son, that is where I received my MBA. You think too highly of yourself if you think I am trying to impress an internet stranger. However that should not impress anyone and that is my point. It is not where you get your sheepskin; it is what you do with it afterwards. It was addressing your condescending attitude that implied that a med student is more worthy than a 40 year old construction worker. You say again " individuals argument are lacking in education and often will try to find phantom factors to cover up or distract from their inadequacies" It is quite comical because again you are asserting that education immediately qualifies the individual. Again it shows your youth and lack of life experience to think this way. I sold my first company to a broker who never graduated high school and could buy and sell most "educated" people I know. When you grow up and leave the womb of the campus, you'll see how ignorant this belief of yours is.

Your opinion is not backed in any way or manner. Just saying that Nolvadex will stimulate the hypothalamus thereby regenerating (there is no 3rd e in this word Mr. Education) natural testosterone production in the body" means nothing. Who is to say that the hypothalamus is where the the breakdown in the HPTA communication resulting in testosterone production, is? The problem is, quite often, in the testes which are no longer capable of manufacturing enough testosterone...which would make your Nolvadex recommendation a useless risk of thrombosis. Neither the medical or bodybuilding community recommends using nolva like this. Your knowledge is clearly limited to opening pages of various steroid websites which are all regurgitating the same dated info. and you made a foolish post to sound like you know what you are talking about.

Lastly son, please show me where I said doctors know best? I believe quite the opposite. Remember half of all doctors finished in the bottom half of their class, internship, etc... You seem to idealize them which reinforces my belief that you are very young and still a student. My point was that HRT clinics, which are not your run of the mill docs but guys working outside of the box, do not even recommend what you are suggesting, let alone BBers. So where is your history, blood work or study buttressing the assertion made with this recommendation? Based on a hypothesis you developed after reading a dated profile on Nolvadex?!?

Age does not give me or anyone a godlike experience. I am here to learn and exchange ideas just like everyone else. There are many here who have forgotten more than I know. However when I see some young guy on here shooting off at the mouth like he knows what he is talking about, and giving bad advice, I feel it my duty to point out the error in his thinking. When you become child like and start calling names or insulting a man because of his age or education, which, quite clearly is superior to yours, then I like to make him look like the fool he is. Do not take it personally, but you strike me as a fool. Now grow up, move on and stop the verbal diarreah like advice of recommending Nolva instead of testosterone for HRT!

Oh my. You seem a bit tense. I think im going to let this one go lol. Im not here to flame or be flamed only to learn and give my opinions. Look daddy, I do love arguments and debates but your just getting way to personal here. Im going to be the grown up one here and walk away before this gets nasty. Lol seriously though I had fun debating with you, I have no hard feelings here. I dont know if I can say the same about your side.

So......lochick I hope your dad has a healthy and productive experience and is properly treated(by doctors of course not myself or um yeah). Anyway so toolman Im just going to leave you alone until the roidrage subsides and hopefully we can just shake and be friends? If not im sorry, I was just giving my opinion and backing it.

**toolman** · 07-16-2005, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Bird

Oh my. You seem a bit tense. I think im going to let this one go lol. Im not here to flame or be flamed only to learn and give my opinions. Look daddy, I do love arguments and debates but your just getting way to personal here. Im going to be the grown up one here and walk away before this gets nasty. Lol seriously though I had fun debating with you, I have no hard feelings here. I dont know if I can say the same about your side.

So......lochick I hope your dad has a healthy and productive experience and is properly treated(by doctors of course not myself or um yeah). Anyway so toolman Im just going to leave you alone until the roidrage subsides and hopefully we can just shake and be friends? If not im sorry, I was just giving my opinion and backing it.

Not sure what part of my post you consider roid rage or personal, but I hope it was informative.