steroid users = cheaters

**roger24** · 07-26-2005, 11:33 AM

over the last few months there was a post about how steroid users= cheaters. this is what ive got to say about that post, and about steroids . Isn't it time for the brainwashed public to know the truth about steroids? In their ideological zeal to ban "performance enhancing" drugs, national governments and the various local and international sports federations have ignorantly and self-righteously declared that steroid use is cheating, dangerous, and stupid. In fact, in general, it is neither dangerous nor stupid and it is cheating only because it has been capriciously commanded to be so.

In the first place, with respect to the alleged danger, people ought to know that there are dozens of steroids and it would be absurd to imagine that their risks are identical. Moreover, steroids come in two broad classes - the orals and the injectables. It is true that most of the orals have associated hazards but not a single one of them is as hazardous as smoking or drinking. The principle dangers of the injectables result from overdosing and, even so, they are mainly such alarming matters as acne and severe headache. Every legally obtainable prescription drug comes with a warning of dozens of worse side effects.

But what is that to you and me? Why should we legislate what risks people should run unless they can interfere with the rest of us? In our democratic, capitalist society many persons risk their last few dollars to start up businesses which will probably fail. We do not stop them. If and when they become multimillionaires we congratulate them. We don't permit people to drive without seatbelts because their accidents drive up insurance rates for the rest of us but we let people engage in the far riskier business of climbing mountains since the danger is mainly self-regarding. So enough virtue-parading preaching.

As for the so-called cheating, who really are the cheaters? The average steroid user spends about $100-150 per month while the supplement industries grow rich on suckering in the hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of foolish people spending up to $1000 per month on a variety of mumbo jumbo: androstenedione, 4-androstenedione, 19-androstenedione, androstenediol and the several 4, 5, 17, and 19 varieties of androstenediol, tribulus terrestris, enzymatic conversion accelerators, growth hormone stimulators, hormone-releasing peptides, testosterone "boosters", dozens of magical herbs and a ridiculous number of "non drugs" with unpronouncable names so they are always abbreviated such as HMB and DHEA. On top of all this, these folks who tend to be more affluent than steroid users, are pumping protein powders into their milk - $9 per day - and gobbling down protein candy bars - up to $3 each - while saving a bit of energy for screaming "Foul! Cheater!" at the poor steroid user. They are told by the manufacturers and distributors of these outlandish products that they look like steroids, feel like steroids and work like steroids. So? Why not ban them like steroids?

But I say ban them and only them. For one thing, they don't work as well as steroids. More importantly, what care I as a fan that someone sets a remarkable record because he used steroids? I pay money to see sporting events and I am entitled to an athlete's very best. Isaac Stern can afford a violin that few violinists and no high school orchestra player can afford. Is he taking unfair advantage of them? If I pay $60 to hear Stern and learn his tone was not up to par because he was too lazy to bring his own violin and borrowed a $50 one from a high school kid, I justifiably want my money back. What care I that he usually plays upon a $200,000 instrument? I am not bothered by this; I want his very best. Likewise, I want the very best an athlete can give me. I don't want to watch athletes who could have done better if only they had used steroids. Talk of steroid performance as unnatural is as ridiculous as complaining about artificial hearts. As for me I plan to have a T-shirt made for me that will read on its front: "Use steroids or go home. Enough of crying and whining." how do you guys feel about this.

**mike2nice** · 07-26-2005, 11:38 AM

right on bro

**Mesomorphyl** · 07-26-2005, 11:40 AM

Preach on!

**roger24** · 07-26-2005, 11:47 AM

its the truth.

**dirtyvegas** · 07-26-2005, 11:52 AM

Damn bro intense....ive been wanting to say that for some time, just never could find the words to do so. Ide love to have one of those T-shirts..Bad Asss

my favorite, quote:

Talk of steroid performance as unnatural is as ridiculous as complaining about artificial hearts. As for me I plan to have a T-shirt made for me that will read on its front: "Use steroids or go home"". Enough of crying and whining . I especially like the violin part..

~DV~

**p0d0078** · 07-26-2005, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

Preach on!

Word!!

**CapnZ** · 07-26-2005, 11:59 AM

Nice one Rog!!

**bigtwin** · 07-26-2005, 02:45 PM

Exactly, the public is grossley misinformed on roids.

**bigtwin** · 07-26-2005, 02:47 PM

People always think, uh oh, sterids=bad, but then why do doctors prescribe them to paitents to help them get better? exactly, then people who use claratin to unaturally rid them selves of allergies are cheaters also. Rant off.

**smokethedays** · 07-26-2005, 02:49 PM

i

roids

**CRUISECONTROL** · 07-26-2005, 02:52 PM

Good post Bro

**QuieTSToRM33** · 07-26-2005, 02:56 PM

i want my T-Shirt !!!!

**sizzlechest** · 07-26-2005, 03:07 PM

majority of users just want to look good to get chicks, not to be in competetive sports. However, if it was legal to use then the playing field would be even.

**WildCh1ld** · 07-26-2005, 03:10 PM

**Benches505** · 07-26-2005, 03:22 PM

I was a solid 230lbs before I went back on the sauce last year. I was natural just like the "Mr natural guys" running their traps. I was bigger and much stronger than them back then and now at 260+ I'm way beyond them and they HATE it

I say **** them!

Here is a good laugh for you guys

A few months ago I over heard a couple of guys working out on the bench talking bad about steroid users. They were working out with 225 for 3-4 reps and grunting. I walked over and asked if I could work in when one of the guys went to spot me I said I was fine and proceeded to do skull crushers. I never saw those two guys again

**SABAGOY** · 07-26-2005, 04:06 PM

Good job.

**j martini** · 07-26-2005, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by roger24

over the last few months there was a post about how steroid users= cheaters. this is what ive got to say about that post, and about steroids . Isn't it time for the brainwashed public to know the truth about steroids? In their ideological zeal to ban "performance enhancing" drugs, national governments and the various local and international sports federations have ignorantly and self-righteously declared that steroid use is cheating, dangerous, and stupid. In fact, in general, it is neither dangerous nor stupid and it is cheating only because it has been capriciously commanded to be so.

In the first place, with respect to the alleged danger, people ought to know that there are dozens of steroids and it would be absurd to imagine that their risks are identical. Moreover, steroids come in two broad classes - the orals and the injectables. It is true that most of the orals have associated hazards but not a single one of them is as hazardous as smoking or drinking. The principle dangers of the injectables result from overdosing and, even so, they are mainly such alarming matters as acne and severe headache. Every legally obtainable prescription drug comes with a warning of dozens of worse side effects.

But what is that to you and me? Why should we legislate what risks people should run unless they can interfere with the rest of us? In our democratic, capitalist society many persons risk their last few dollars to start up businesses which will probably fail. We do not stop them. If and when they become multimillionaires we congratulate them. We don't permit people to drive without seatbelts because their accidents drive up insurance rates for the rest of us but we let people engage in the far riskier business of climbing mountains since the danger is mainly self-regarding. So enough virtue-parading preaching.

As for the so-called cheating, who really are the cheaters? The average steroid user spends about $100-150 per month while the supplement industries grow rich on suckering in the hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of foolish people spending up to $1000 per month on a variety of mumbo jumbo: androstenedione, 4-androstenedione, 19-androstenedione, androstenediol and the several 4, 5, 17, and 19 varieties of androstenediol, tribulus terrestris, enzymatic conversion accelerators, growth hormone stimulators, hormone-releasing peptides, testosterone "boosters", dozens of magical herbs and a ridiculous number of "non drugs" with unpronouncable names so they are always abbreviated such as HMB and DHEA. On top of all this, these folks who tend to be more affluent than steroid users, are pumping protein powders into their milk - $9 per day - and gobbling down protein candy bars - up to $3 each - while saving a bit of energy for screaming "Foul! Cheater!" at the poor steroid user. They are told by the manufacturers and distributors of these outlandish products that they look like steroids, feel like steroids and work like steroids. So? Why not ban them like steroids?

But I say ban them and only them. For one thing, they don't work as well as steroids. More importantly, what care I as a fan that someone sets a remarkable record because he used steroids? I pay money to see sporting events and I am entitled to an athlete's very best. Isaac Stern can afford a violin that few violinists and no high school orchestra player can afford. Is he taking unfair advantage of them? If I pay $60 to hear Stern and learn his tone was not up to par because he was too lazy to bring his own violin and borrowed a $50 one from a high school kid, I justifiably want my money back. What care I that he usually plays upon a $200,000 instrument? I am not bothered by this; I want his very best. Likewise, I want the very best an athlete can give me. I don't want to watch athletes who could have done better if only they had used steroids. Talk of steroid performance as unnatural is as ridiculous as complaining about artificial hearts. As for me I plan to have a T-shirt made for me that will read on its front: "Use steroids or go home. Enough of crying and whining." how do you guys feel about this.

Thats a John Romano article in Muscular development isnt it?

**scriptfactory** · 07-26-2005, 04:44 PM

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...g-athletes.htm

You can't post some shit without giving credit to the original author...

**WildCh1ld** · 07-26-2005, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by scriptfactory

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...g-athletes.htm

You can't post some shit without giving credit to the original author...

aaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwww shit..........I thought it sounded to good...

**IronFreakX** · 07-26-2005, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by j martini

Thats a John Romano article in Muscular development isnt it?

bahahahahahaha

glad we caught ya b4 the fake pics......

**j martini** · 07-26-2005, 05:10 PM

I have a good memory. John Romano always writes great articles.
Has the show about AAS that he done on HBO aired yet?

**IRONBULL05** · 07-26-2005, 05:30 PM

Great post roger!Amen!!!
If the public could see or hear the real scientific,and medical studies on steroid use then they would stop complaining as much.
I dont believe AAS use is cheating,but for the people who do...Lifes a bitch,get use to it!!! I wish the world was perfect too,but it aint!!

**Undertow** · 07-26-2005, 05:49 PM

I agree. Someone needs to explain to me why Tommy John surgery isn't cheating more than steroids . I mean, attaching a leg tendon to someone's arm gives them a much stronger tendon than they would have naturally. Isn't that cheating and getting an unfair advantage?

**lfrisbee** · 07-26-2005, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by roger24

over the last few months there was a post about how steroid users= cheaters. this is what ive got to say about that post, and about steroids.

You have some valid points - but don't pass off someone elses work as your own...

**lfrisbee** · 07-26-2005, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Undertow

I agree. Someone needs to explain to me why Tommy John surgery isn't cheating more than steroids. I mean, attaching a leg tendon to someone's arm gives them a much stronger tendon than they would have naturally. Isn't that cheating and getting an unfair advantage?

Not all Tommy John surgeries require a tendon from the leg. I've had the procedure done myself, and it was done using some artificial tendon stuff and not a piece of my "leg".

Most Tommy John surgeries that do require another tendon from your body uses the tendon from your wrist area (not sure what it is called), but it pops up when you make a ring with your fingers by touching your thumb and pinky finger together. One of those has no real use and is taken out of your non-throwing arm and placed in your elbow.

The reason it is not the same as steroids is because a human body by most standards is not considered "broken" just because its not on the juice. Athletes, baseball pitchers in particular, do not voluntarily have Tommy John surgery because of the risk and implication involved that they may never throw again. No successful pitcher would be that stupid. Tommy John surgery is performed on most patients when they have torn through a ligament in their elbow and will no longer be able to play again ever, thus their elbow is "broken".

This isn't quite the same as an able-bodied athlete using the juice because he could have performed at a high level anyways without the extra help, whereas Tommy John surgery is necessary because the Athlete is essentially shut down and the career undoubtably ends after an elbow injury of such magnitude.

And that my friend, is why performing Tommy John surgery is not the same as using Steroids to enhance performance.

**RussianVodka** · 07-26-2005, 07:01 PM

You said THE truth!

BG · 07-26-2005, 07:04 PM

I agree good post bro !!!

**Undertow** · 07-26-2005, 07:20 PM

Thanks for dropping knowledge. ;-)

**lfrisbee** · 07-26-2005, 07:25 PM

Anytime bro

**Undertow** · 07-26-2005, 07:28 PM

"Once rehabilitation is complete, the good news is that many players come back with a few more miles per hour on their fastball. Transplanted tendons have three times the amount of collagen, the substance that makes up cartilage, than the original tendon. John, for example, never won more than 16 games in a season before his surgery, but came back to win 20 games his first season and 22 games in a later season."

However, only around 80% of the people who have the surgery make a successful comeback. Not really worth a couple extra miles per hour.

**lfrisbee** · 07-26-2005, 08:03 PM

Yes, there have been documented cases where people have gained almost 10 miles per hour on their fastballs... these cases are extreme, and most who do actually come back from their surgeries will throw at a similar velocity give or take 1-2 mph.

For example... I was throwing 90-92 as a Junior in High school... when I became injured in college, it was more of a long term injury that built into a tear, i came back from my surgery and was throwing 85-86. I wasn't satisfied and now enjoy running my own company :P

Not everyone will have a huge success story that has had the Tommy John surgery done, but at the same time, outstanding results have been recorded and that is why the procedure exists still today.

I wasn't trying to say that Tommy John isn't successful at all... I was just trying to differentiate that procedure vs. taking steroids . If you're injured and shut down anyways... what the heck cut me open and lets see if we can't fix it right?

**ant_8u** · 07-26-2005, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Benches505

Here is a good laugh for you guys

A few months ago I over heard a couple of guys working out on the bench talking bad about steroid users. They were working out with 225 for 3-4 reps and grunting. I walked over and asked if I could work in when one of the guys went to spot me I said I was fine and proceeded to do skull crushers. I never saw those two guys again

Now that's funny!

**Undertow** · 07-26-2005, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by lfrisbee

Yes, there have been documented cases where people have gained almost 10 miles per hour on their fastballs... these cases are extreme, and most who do actually come back from their surgeries will throw at a similar velocity give or take 1-2 mph.

For example... I was throwing 90-92 as a Junior in High school... when I became injured in college, it was more of a long term injury that built into a tear, i came back from my surgery and was throwing 85-86. I wasn't satisfied and now enjoy running my own company :P

Not everyone will have a huge success story that has had the Tommy John surgery done, but at the same time, outstanding results have been recorded and that is why the procedure exists still today.

I wasn't trying to say that Tommy John isn't successful at all... I was just trying to differentiate that procedure vs. taking steroids. If you're injured and shut down anyways... what the heck cut me open and lets see if we can't fix it right?

Well I'm glad you were successful despite the injury. I'm also jealous that you could throw that hard. I played ball from 7-19 or so...I still miss it like crazy.

**lfrisbee** · 07-26-2005, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Undertow

Well I'm glad you were successful despite the injury. I'm also jealous that you could throw that hard. I played ball from 7-19 or so...I still miss it like crazy.

well... i got called in the 10th round of the '02 draft by the Phillies... looking back, I shoulda signed... I'd still be done playing, but i'd have a good amount of cash in the bank and no school loans. Hindsight is 20/20 though oh well

I had banked on going 3rd round or higher out of college... All my buddies went 1st and 2nd rounds...

Now instead i have no money in the bank and a friggin school loan. hehe.

Thank you for the kind words though bro

**CrazyorHigh** · 07-27-2005, 01:35 AM

weird i just read the exact same thing at this place'

http://www.dolfzine.com/page131.htm

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 07-27-2005, 03:04 AM

well if you compete in something that has rules that specifically prohibit anabolic usage, and you use them...i think that is probally cheating, which is why most people IMO would say that. It used to be also IMO, that most steroid users were bodybuilders and athletes, both of which usually have rules against usage.

Next time someone calls you a cheater for it, and your not competing in anything, ask for a copy of the rules.