When to use Anti-Estrogen

**Drummerboy** · 07-19-2005, 01:36 AM

I am stuck on this one...
I am under the impression that you dont need anti-e's while on cycle unless you have undesirable sides like gyno. Some water during bulking should be no big deal... I take the anti-e's together, nolva/arimidex , until sides are lessened. The reason i do this is because i believe estrogen has a role in growth, and would be lessened if estro was reduced too much. I am on Prop/Nandro Phenylprop/dbol at 100/75/50 mg ED. I am using no anti-e yet, but will treat if i get itchy nipples. In PCT I use both nolva/arim the entire time, and maybe a week longer than the clomid, along with clen . Is this incorrect? Is there any good reason to use anti-e's all the time while on AAS? For cutting you may, while also changing your diet and AAS to cut down on water...

**jucinator** · 07-19-2005, 12:54 PM

it sounds like you have a handle on the situation. i would say the same thing if you not getting gyno then dont clog up receptor cites th anti -Es

**Drummerboy** · 07-19-2005, 01:03 PM

Bump!! cmon, some experienced bro MUST have something to say about this!!!!

**fighteveryone** · 07-19-2005, 01:40 PM

i'm prone to bloat and gyno. if i skip my daily dose of nolva my nipples are so sore they feel like they'd fall off... plus they lactate. but i'm also running over a gram of test prop per week. i only use liquidex when i feel it's necessary.

**demirsteel** · 07-19-2005, 01:53 PM

Why to bloat? We are bodybuilders, we are eager to super low fat percantages. This is our job. I can not reach %5 fat body fat percantage without estrogen control. Plus, using nolvadex with any cycle boosts my liver.

**Drummerboy** · 07-19-2005, 02:09 PM

When bulking, bulk.... get big, fat, watery, whatever... if i gain 40 pds on a bulk cycle, if keep half of that when i shred, im doing awsome.... i dont bother bulking and cutting anymore... two totally different diets, training, and sometimes AAS.... I eat like a horse, lots of everything healthy, and supps.... I have no sides now, at 700 test wk and 525 deca , 50mg dbol ED... i might soon though... I will worry about bf% when i start shredding, with prop/tren /var, and pct with clomid, ldex, clen , nolva... this is how the biggest guys i know do it.... IMHO

**demirsteel** · 07-19-2005, 02:14 PM

I am pro I need to be fit all of the time for shows and in my gym. I do not see any woman likes big fat bastards like powerlifters.

**punchrf** · 07-19-2005, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by fighteveryone

i'm prone to bloat and gyno. if i skip my daily dose of nolva my nipples are so sore they feel like they'd fall off... plus they lactate. but i'm also running over a gram of test prop per week. i only use liquidex when i feel it's necessary.

i'm the same as you but i run arimidex also the whole time and still bloat. i'm going to try proviron also on the next cycle and see how that goes.

**Drummerboy** · 07-19-2005, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by demirsteel

I am pro I need to be fit all of the time for shows and in my gym. I do not see any woman likes big fat bastards like powerlifters.

hehe i see your point... hey man check your PMs bro!!

**demirsteel** · 07-19-2005, 02:26 PM

I use letrozole +Nolvadex +RU486.

**taylor26** · 07-19-2005, 02:53 PM

sounds like you are doing everything right especially that you aren't prone to gyno. If you were prone to gyno it might be a different story. I have also heard good things about letrozole while on cycle.

**bigcity** · 07-19-2005, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by fighteveryone

i'm prone to bloat and gyno. if i skip my daily dose of nolva my nipples are so sore they feel like they'd fall off... plus they lactate. but i'm also running over a gram of test prop per week. i only use liquidex when i feel it's necessary.

Sry off topic but a gram of test prop you must be sore everywhere

**toolman** · 07-19-2005, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by jucinator

it sounds like you have a handle on the situation. i would say the same thing if you not getting gyno then dont clog up receptor cites th anti -Es

What the hell are you talking about...clogging up receptors?!? I hate seeing posts like this. THis makes no sence whatsoever. It competes for binding sites against estrogen. Do you want estrogen to bind to your breast glands?!?

Yes, you should take nolva on cycle. It does not inhibit gains, gyno is easier to prevent than treat, it greatly improves lipid profiles which test negatively affects...there are just so many benefits to it that you would be crazy not to use it while on cycle.

**Drummerboy** · 07-19-2005, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by toolman

What the hell are you talking about...clogging up receptors?!? I hate seeing posts like this. THis makes no sence whatsoever. It competes for binding sites against estrogen. Do you want estrogen to bind to your breast glands?!?

Yes, you should take nolva on cycle. It does not inhibit gains, gyno is easier to prevent than treat, it greatly improves lipid profiles which test negatively affects...there are just so many benefits to it that you would be crazy not to use it while on cycle.

ok, sounds like you know whats goin on then... the recommended dose would be 10mg/day while on... dont forget, im not only talking of tamox. I once used arimidex also while on, and promptly stopped growing. So, your saying, use a blocker, but not necessarily an anti aromatase (unless your in PCT of course)?

**toolman** · 07-19-2005, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Drummerboy

ok, sounds like you know whats goin on then... the recommended dose would be 10mg/day while on... dont forget, im not only talking of tamox. I once used arimidex also while on, and promptly stopped growing. So, your saying, use a blocker, but not necessarily an anti aromatase (unless your in PCT of course)?

There are many things that could have stopped your growth on cycle, I have never noticed a decline in growth on ldex. I would say it would take more than one cycle to determine if that was the case for you. As for tamoxif.(Nolva), the only scientific arguement that has merit regarding gain influences is the slight reduction in igf values of the liver while on it...however, this is very minute so at worst, you will lose a pound or two of gains for a cycle. Even with this being the case, the benefits you have with HDL/LDL ratios while on nolva while also guarding against gyno alone, make it a regular part of any cycle I do where there is aromatization. 10 mgs daily and .25 of ldex are my daily amounts on cycle, but you can drop the ldex if you don't like it and don't mind the bloat.

**Drummerboy** · 07-20-2005, 02:57 PM

thnx, im gonna have my bloodwork done before i start tamox, after 2 weeks of cycle so far, then start tamox in a couple days, and take blood work again, and post my results... im currently on prop, nan phenyl, dbol 100/75/50 ED