How do you know when............

**nola1230** · 07-20-2005, 05:12 AM

your ready for your first cycle? I have read numerous post (including my own) where everyone says your not ready, but usually dosent give any reasons, unless the person is really young. I want to start my first cycle of test & deca , so why should I wait? and if not now, when??? Also, what is a resonable Total amount for a full cycle of test and deca going to cost me, and about what type of gain range should I expect? Thanks

**Spyder** · 07-20-2005, 05:27 AM

What's your height and weight, oh yeah and your age??
How long have u been lifting?

**nola1230** · 07-20-2005, 05:37 AM

23 yrs old
5'9''
145lbs
1 1/2 yrs lifting (gained 30lbs)

**Benches505** · 07-20-2005, 06:16 AM

Go with test alone for your first cycle. 500mg/ew for 12 weeks. That should give you 20+lbs for your first cycle. Save the deca for the next one where the gains will be harder to come by.

GL to you

**Spyder** · 07-20-2005, 06:17 AM

your not too young. But i think you are a abit small for your height, no offence or anything but there is still alot of room on your body for building mass naturally, with a proper diet and training program. I'd say, another 40lbs of mass on you and you are ready my friend. Don't forget to do your research(for steroids ) aswell, you sound like you don't know enough about the subject at hand.

**8-MAN** · 07-20-2005, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by Spyder

your not too young. But i think you are a abit small for your height, no offence or anything but there is still alot of room on your body for building mass naturally, with a proper diet and training program. I'd say, another 40lbs of mass on you and you are ready my friend. Don't forget to do your research(for steroids) aswell, you sound like you don't know enough about the subject at hand.

Agreed.....you could prolly get up to 175 before you should juice. Only weighing 145 and getting on the juice doesn't make sense unless you have some kind of muscle wasting disease. Try to plateau out before switching to the dark side. You won't regret it. Good luck!

**BuildaBeast** · 07-20-2005, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by 8-MAN

Agreed.....you could prolly get up to 175 before you should juice. Only weighing 145 and getting on the juice doesn't make sense unless you have some kind of muscle wasting disease. Try to plateau out before switching to the dark side. You won't regret it. Good luck!

Not to offend anyone but I have to admit all the people I know that have taken gear did not max out their bodies naturaly according to alot of peoples statements on here. How many years of lifting does it take to get to your max gains natty? Just my opinion but I feel there are alot of people who do it before they have made all their gain natty. Is this so wrong?

**dr.shred** · 07-20-2005, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by BuildaBeast

Not to offend anyone but I have to admit all the people I know that have taken gear did not max out their bodies naturaly according to alot of peoples statements on here. How many years of lifting does it take to get to your max gains natty? Just my opinion but I feel there are alot of people who do it before they have made all their gain natty. Is this so wrong?

true, when you think you have reached your natural potential then it is time to consider aas.

**longhorn814** · 07-20-2005, 08:17 AM

you arent anywhere youre genetic limit at only 145 lbs and only been training for 1 1/2 years. Im the same height as you and I didnt start until I was around 190 lbs. The real keys are understanding how, when, and what to eat properly, training and rest. Those are all things you still have to improve on. Hell, most people that are serious about this are always working on improving their diets so youve got plenty of room. If you want to put on some weight, go check out the diet forum on here and read the bulking sticky. If you start eating like that for a couple more years, you'll have put on some good size. Besides if you dont know how to eat properly you will lose all your gains when you come off too. Here's the link:

UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet...

Steroids arent a miracle drug, but if you know how to eat, train, and get enough rest they work pretty damn well, on the other hand if you dont understand this youre just wasting time and cash

**Schwarz** · 07-20-2005, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by nola1230

your ready for your first cycle? I have read numerous post (including my own) where everyone says your not ready, but usually dosent give any reasons, unless the person is really young. I want to start my first cycle of test & deca, so why should I wait? and if not now, when??? Also, what is a resonable Total amount for a full cycle of test and deca going to cost me, and about what type of gain range should I expect? Thanks

I think this is a case of both physical and mental maturity.

Physical - You need to be absolutely sure that you've reached your physical limits. Have you tried different training methods? Is your nutrition excellent? Have you used an effective supplement regime? These are the kind of questions you need to ask yourself and be honest when answering them.

The natural route is the hardest and it is tempting to jump onto the "roid" bandwagon but only by going through the natural process of bodybuilding can you truly prepare urself for when you are on roids.

For example, when I started less than 3 year ago I barely weighed 110-115lbs. I now weigh 220 with a 15% bf (not great I know but I'm working on it!). Throughout these 3 years I have read and studied bodybuilding like a demon....the 12 week training, nutritional and supplement programs I put together for myself continue to get better and better as I learn more. I know now when I do a cycle I am prepared and know what kind of a training, nutritional and supplement program I need to put together to best take advantage of any AAS I put into my body.

So do the same and ask yourself the tough questions above. Remember bodybuilding (atleast for me) is not only about development of the body but it's also about values; discipline, respect, achievement etc.

Mental - When you've decided that you've done everything possible narturally then take you're time and research AAS. Read anything and everything and ask sensible questions. So many times I've seen someone on this board say they don't know what PCT to do and they've already started their cycle!!!!!!! or ask how much nolva to use on cycle when they've already started!!!!

I am 9 months into my research and I still feel I need to read more.

So there you have it. I hope my thoughts help you out and good luck

S

**Rsox420** · 07-20-2005, 08:40 AM

23 years old and 145 pounds? You must have the metabolism of a 14 year old or something man. But try to put on more weight naturally cause your too skinny to want to start juicing now.

**jucinator** · 07-20-2005, 09:00 AM

bump, bump bump

**BeerBaron** · 07-20-2005, 09:05 AM

I'm 19 6'2" and about 193. I'm on my second cycle of 500mg test e weekly and love it. Test only is a great first cycle.

As far as reaching your natural potential, you can naturally acheive almost anything. If you havent yet, it's because there is a weak link in either diet, exercise, or rest habbits. As long as you are experienced lifting, and eating somewhat right, I don't see why not experiment with a 12 week cycle of test.

**BeerBaron** · 07-20-2005, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by jucinator

bump, bump bump

you're bumping a thread that is 20 minutes old and has 5 people viewing it. Post whore.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 07-20-2005, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by longhorn814

you arent anywhere youre genetic limit at only 145 lbs and only been training for 1 1/2 years.

What is his genetic limit (in lbs)?

**longhorn814** · 07-20-2005, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by hooker

What is his genetic limit (in lbs)?

yeah, yeah hooker, I get what you mean! Actually i think it would be 182.75 lbs!!

At 5'9 145 lbs and with only 18 months of training under his belt, he could gain a lot more naturally without juice. Does that sound better?

**bigbadbootydaddy** · 07-20-2005, 10:11 AM

The average person his age and height is about 150lbs. Average meaning not a bodybuilder. The doctor or medical recommendation would be anywhere from 130 to 170lbs.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 07-20-2005, 10:11 AM

My point is (exactly what you suspected, and what the original post in this thread was getting at) that mostly, people's reccomendations for this type of question are arbitrary.

**longhorn814** · 07-20-2005, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by hooker

My point is (exactly what you suspected, and what the original post in this thread was getting at) that mostly, people's reccomendations for this type of question are arbitrary.

very true!

**ODC0717** · 07-20-2005, 10:14 AM

The major concern to me is that he's been training for under two years. I'm 5'11" an weighted about 170 before I hit the juice. I'd say going at it naturally for the next few years paying special attention to your diet, training and rest. This alone will make you grow and in the mean time research all you can about AAS. Make an educated decision and go from there. Personally, I think too many young people are easily influnced by the mags and pics they see of others who are huge and are led to believe they can only get there with juice and they don't even condiser the decades of training they have under their belts or the extreme dedication they have towards their diet and resting. They've done it for so long it's second nature to them. My point is don't be in such a rush to get huge quick because it won't happen over night.

**slooby** · 07-20-2005, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by nola1230

23 yrs old
5'9''
145lbs
1 1/2 yrs lifting (gained 30lbs)

so your saying you were only 115 lbs before you started lifting. your still to small, you need to check your diet and your workout routine.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 07-20-2005, 10:25 AM

I never understand why people ask for "stats" when someone wants cycle advice...

Regardles of stats, a guy says "I'm 5'6" and 170" or "I'm 6'2" 250," People still say to do 4-500mgs of test for 12 weeks.

I think it's to sound smart...as if there's some formula we go by...

"Oh...you're 6'2"....that changes things considerably...you need an extra 4.234mgs of test per week..."

"Oh...you're under 200lbs....add in 30mgs of tren /day..."

-or-

Even worse, we decide that he's not reached his natural potential...

Arbitrary.

Wouldn't we need to ask for his parents "stats" to know that part?

**BeerBaron** · 07-20-2005, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by hooker

I never understand why people ask for "stats" when someone wants cycle advice...

Regardles of stats, a guy says "I'm 5'6" and 170" or "I'm 6'2" 250," People still say to do 4-500mgs of test for 12 weeks.

I think it's to sound smart...as if there's some formula we go by...

"Oh...you're 6'2"....that changes things considerably...you need an extra 4.234mgs of test per week..."

"Oh...you're under 200lbs....add in 30mgs of tren /day..."

-or-

Even worse, we decide that he's not reached his natural potential...

Arbitrary.

Wouldn't we need to ask for his parents "stats" to know that part?

I believe when most people ask for stats they are trying to establish where this person is in terms of size. In the case of body building size is directly correlated with experience and knowlege of diet and training. I don't believe anyone determines dosage through these stats, that would be silly. Stats are instead used to determine whether or not a person is "ready" to cycle; a kind of proof of their knowlege of body building.

**jucinator** · 07-20-2005, 11:18 AM

bump !Hooker just busted everyone out we are all guilty of that my self included. I will start asking for parent stats HA HA Just get fu-kin BIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im 5'11" and weigh 240lbs what type of cycle should i take oh yeah my bench is 385 and my dad is 6'4" and 260lbs Let me quess TEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Property of Steroid.com** · 07-20-2005, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

I believe when most people ask for stats they are trying to establish where this person is in terms of size. In the case of body building size is directly correlated with experience and knowlege of diet and training. I don't believe anyone determines dosage through these stats, that would be silly. Stats are instead used to determine whether or not a person is "ready" to cycle; a kind of proof of their knowlege of body building.

Thats an invalid measurement of experience and knowledge, as I'm sure you know...

Unless the biggest guy always knows the most...and the smallest guy the least...

**jucinator** · 07-20-2005, 11:29 AM

bump no size dosent matter when it comes to knowledge unless your talking about brain size.

**longhorn814** · 07-20-2005, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by gsxxr

speek for your self. i alwas try advise people on cycle that will best fit there needs. im not one of those guy telling even one to run test-c for first cycle. i do tell people test only should be looked into.

i always try and tell people to really examine their diet and training before taking any gear. A lot people have been fooled by the bias ass liberal media into thinking that they can just take steroids and get huge and ripped with very little effort. When in fact, its just the opposite.

**The Baron** · 07-20-2005, 12:44 PM

A lot of good answers here. Don't have much original to add, except that if you can't get over 145 without gear, you probably won't do it on gear, either. You are not eating enough, or maybe you are overtraining or not sleeping enough. Also I truly believe it is a waste to use AAS while your test levels are still naturally high. T levels begin falling significantly in your mid to late 20's. You still have a few years to go on that account. If you really want to do this right, plan on your first cycle being when you are say 27 years old, and plan on being at least 180 lbs at under 12% BF. I got up to 195 at 10% naturally in a year at age 40, and I am only 5'7", having never trained previously. I am far from a genetic freak. You have to do the right thing, eat the right eats, live the right life. What you learn as you struggle to gain that mass naturally in the coming years will help you to get good gains while on gear. Those who can't gain naturally usually COULD if they just WOULD. They always are eating too little, or not enough protein or healthy fat, or sleeping too little, or trying to do 20 sets for chest and biceps and neglecting upper back and important core movements like chins, squats, and deads. Often they smoke and do recreational drugs, or drink to excess. I have never actually seen a "hard gainer" who wasn't doing something wrong that he could have improved upon. If such an animal truly exists, unless it is caused by low test levels, (doubtful) then gear will not help him much.

There are risks involved... health-wise, socially, legally, professionally, emotionally. etc etc etc. Using AAS is a risk to benefit thing that you must calculate for yourself intelligently and informedly. Just having an urge to do gear, or an irrational and uninformed idea in your head that it will be the magic element that has been missing in your pursuit of a decent physique, is not the same thing. And you want to be sure that you are set to get the maximum benefits from a cycle and that you know how best to minimize the risks.

**BeerBaron** · 07-20-2005, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by hooker

Thats an invalid measurement of experience and knowledge, as I'm sure you know...

Unless the biggest guy always knows the most...and the smallest guy the least...

I should have worded that better.

I didn't mean to say that bodybuilding knowlege is measured by one variable being size. I meant it is more of an indicator of ones experience and knowlege. Obviously bigger people are not always smarter. But in this context, it does help give us an idea of how much progress he has made with weight lifting. If he has made progress, than he must be doing something right and could consider experimenting with aas, if not, then he has problems with his plan. If he has problems with his plan, he should get that in check before he juices.

**fanatic** · 07-20-2005, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

I should have worded that better.

I didn't mean to say that bodybuilding knowlege is measured by one variable being size. I meant it is more of an indicator of ones experience and knowlege. Obviously bigger people are not always smarter. But in this context, it does help give us an idea of how much progress he has made with weight lifting. If he has made progress, than he must be doing something right and could consider experimenting with aas, if not, then he has problems with his plan. If he has problems with his plan, he should get that in check before he juices.

It all kind of goes back to when Hooker referred to the guys parents. Genetics play the biggest role when comes to our bodies.

**nola1230** · 07-21-2005, 02:00 AM

Thanks for everyones input. I will continue to train hard and increase my calorie & protein intake and hopefully put on some more lbs naturally. As far as my genetics, everyone in my family is skinny, my dad is 6'1'' and about 180 or less and my mom is also really small. I'm also in the military, which means I run 20-40 miles a week and burn a shit load of calories that I really need. I'll change some things up, do some more research, give it a few more months and see how things are going b4 I try any gear. If/when I do my first cycle, based on the info provided, should I just run test alone? and if so, which one would be best 4 me?

**The Baron** · 07-21-2005, 09:48 AM

Try going low-volume on the training... one or two sets of an exercise, no more than two exercises for a body part. Don't neglect core movements like squat, DL, SLDL, chins, etc. Keep the calories up. You might try a weight gainer shake a couple times a day. If all else fails, a pint of Ben and Jerry's has 1260 calories. A couple pints a day on top of a high protein diet should have you growing. Be sure to eat 5 or 6 times a day. You will consume more total calories and probably digest them more efficiently. Shoot for a big insulin spike immediately after training or even running... eat a pile of sugary stuff alongside your post-workout protein shake. This is an essential part of a "hard-gainer's" nutritional regimen.

Yes, your first cycle should be test-only. Test is test... any test will do. I would go with cyp or enanth for the sake of simplicity. You only need to shoot twice a week. You could do prop to good effect, if you don't mind every day injections. Have nolvadex on hand in case of gyno. Have enough clomid for pct before you ever start your cycle. A dose of 300 to 500mg/week is good for a first cycle. I would certainly not exceed 100mg/day no matter how reckless you be. 500 usually only presents mild sides and is enough for startling gains in a first-time user who has his training and nutrition nailed. 300 should be practically sides-free but will still be enough to have a noticeable effect. Under 300 and you might not see any progress. It takes a couple hundred mg per week just to replace the test that the injected test stops your body from producing. So, you really only start getting a decent bang for the buck when you double that amount.