Newbie looking for advice from the experts.

[packwolf]

Hello everyone, 2nd day as a member but reading posts for a while. I will try not to make this a long story but it is nice to have someone to share my thoughts with. I am 36 years young 5'10-220 lbs. I have always worked out on and off but nothing real serious. I am stocky by nature and I would say I look average.

I have the desire to try A.S. I am tired of going summer through summer at a mediocrity level in terms of my physique.

I want to get big and buffed.

I have my mind set on an oral cycle. I have this thing with needles at the moment. I know orals will not perform miracles but I was wondering what I could expect and my chances of keeping the gains that I acheive.

I work out extremely hard and I eat right so the work ethic is there.

Can I also get some advice about a cycle for what I want, what type of results can I expect after 8 weeks and is my age a factor?

When and if I start something, If you all feel its a good idea, I will post a before and after pics and give my story so we can all learn a little. I see that there are new people like myself here and they may want to see and hear about my results. I see that the opinion on "oral only" cycles vary.

I know I ramble on and I am asking a lot. Guess its the exceitement that I am feeling. Thanks you all very much. I for one appreciate your expert advice. I have done a lot of research and this seems to be the most knowledgeable group that I can find. Thank You

packwolf
Portland-OR.

[bodybuilderson]

DONT POST LOOKING FOR SOURCES, I LEARNED THAT THE HARD WAY.

[D3m3nt3d]

bro...basically everyone here will tell you not to do an oral cycle, its best to use injection with it to get more quality muscle and maybe a synergetic effect depending on what you use..with an oral only you could pretty much expect to gain fast and lose faster as most say. Now i for one have done an oral cycle only and managed to keep my gains, but i was LUCKY..it does not happen much at all...however if you are stuck on an oral only cycle i would recommend anavar ..your suppose to keep your gains and it does not convert from what i understand..however the anabolic effect is not that great especially compared to d-bol or anadrol , but they produce alot of water weight..IMO you could get 10lbs or so from anavar..i would wait for more opinions

[DiMensionX]

I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt. I will assume you are not looking for sources.

Welcome to the board. I know you want an oral only cycle, and you say you have heard about the lackluster gains on Orals only now let me throw some opinions about it.

An effective oral only cycle is like going to bed with a transvestite. Things look GREAT until you’re at the end, and realize everything you've been seeing is fake.

Your gains will go away at the end of the cycle. Some swear the kept their gains this way, I wonder if it was truly the oral cycle or power of the mind and their natural potential was actually found.

A best case for gains oral cycle might work. And you have a fair chance of hepatitis from doing it. Are you so scared of needles that you would rather have a liver transplant? Dude, I was VERY nervous about my first shot, last fucking week. Now, I look forward to playing darts (Everyday inject makes you used to it quick).

If your ready for juice then it is my opinion you need to do it right. That doesn't mean more is better, it means that you want to be as "safe" as possible. This means that needles are unavoidable. They DO NOT HURT when done right, hell even when done wrong they are not as bad as some would say/think.

Do you realize that with a cycle of Sust, Deca , D-Bol you would only inject 2 times a week. Man, that is nothing. The gains you would get would be incredible, and you would be smarter by going this route. Instead of Sust some would recommend Test Enth, it's a preference thing.

Good Luck,

DMX

[packwolf]

Sorry about the assumption that I am looking for sources. I have learned from reading the info from moderators that looking for sources is something you do not do. I did not feel that my message was doing that. I was warning newbies not to get burned like I did. I will now edit my post so there is no debate. Thanks for the heads up.

[D3m3nt3d]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DiMensionX
[B]Do you realize that with a cycle of Sust, Deca , D-Bol you would only inject 2 times a week. Man, that is nothing. The gains you would get would be incredible, and you would be smarter by going this route.

He is exactly right here...however DMX the power of the mind didnt move me up 17lbs and allow me to keep it all on an oral only cycle However as me and DMX both stated...your better to go with an injection period

[bodybuilderson]

I didnt think your post was looking for sources i was just warning you, cuz i messed up and did that and almost got banned.

[packwolf]

May I ask what type of oral cycle you used to achieve your gains?
Also after receiving some expert advice, the needles are not sounding so scary but I think that, I am not a doctor, how do I give myself an injection . It probably sounds harder that it is I guess. I was hoping to start Oral and after I get my feet wet, try injectebels if I feel I want to continue with AS, but I have also heard that your first AS cycle is your best. A lot of opinions out there.

Thanks in advance for responding everyone..This is great!

[DiMensionX]

D3m3nt3d give yourself credit bro! Heh, either way 17lbs is fucking awsome.

DMX

[Pete235]

Originally posted by packwolf
I am not a doctor, how do I give myself an injection . It probably sounds harder that it is I guess.

www.spotinjections.com

It's actually quite simple and much more effective than an oral only cycle. Good luck bro.

[bodybuilderson]

go to www.spotinjections.com great info on how to inject and different areas to inject.

[DiMensionX]

Go to the drugstore and pick up a syringe and a 25g or 23g 1" - 1.5" needle (only if it's cool in your state). Go home and get an apple, fill the syringe with some type of oil and hit the apple with it.

Dude, it is THAT EASY. When it goes in your skin it's NOT like a harpoon, it's smooth and easy. They key is using the right gauge pin, 18g to draw oil's is the best, and 23g 1.5' for your glutes or 25g 1" for damn near anywhere else. Don't jab it, insert it smoothly, really S-M-O-O-T-H-L-Y, NOT fast. Inject nice and SLOW. The muscle shouldn't ache from the oil going in, if it does your going to fast.

If you did do something like a long acting test and deca then you really only need to hit your glutes. However now that I am a human pin cushion I found that I really like hitting the Delts and Quads the most. Delts are #1 for me, Quads #2 and Glutes come in last.

Sunday ass cheek number 1, wednesday/thursday ass cheek number 2, the cheek1 then cheek2. I would rotate it through Delts, Glutes, and Quads but thats me.

DMX

PS, I KNOW the expert comment wasn't about me. This is my first cycle bro, I've read a lot though.

[TNT]

Welcome to our merry band of marauders, packwolf.

You've had some good responses, so I'm just going to toss in a few thoughts that I hope will be helpful.

First, you are not ready to do a cycle yet. At 5'10" and 220 pounds, especially not engaged in a workout program already, you have some clinical obesity to address first. If youy check the Metropolitan Height-Weight tables, the standard used in medicine (which you can find at this link), you will see that the maximum recommended weight for a person who is 5'10" with a large frame is 173 pounds - you are almost 50 pounds over that. (And chances are that once you lose some weight you will find that you are not necessarily large-framed.) My recommendation is that you adjust your eating habits by moving to a healthier diet and begin an exercise program before doing AS. In other words, lose naturally, then begin to build up with AS supplementation.

(Let me put it this way - and believe me, bro, I mean no offense. If you take a fat dude and give him steroids , you end up with a fat dude on steroids. Steroids generally make you gain; but you need to lose before you gain. Again, don't take it as an insult; lots of us have been there.)

In the meantime, take the next 30-60 days and learn as much as you can about AS. Cycles are a very individual thing, based on your goals and objectives. They require good planning, both in terms of knowing what you want to take and building up your supply so you don't find yourself short once you have begun your cycle.

I concur with the guys who have said that oral AS are not the way to go. Not only are they less effective, they also have a higher potential for liver and kidney damage. In fact,if you take the basic building block of steroids - testosterone - the oral version is almost never prescribed in the United States because of the potential adverse effects.

As far as http://www.spotinjections.com, this is a popular site that was started by a well-respected member of A.R. But be careful when reading it as a newbie, since the author of the site is a big advocate of "site injections." There is a diversity of opinion on the issue of site injections (I happen to be one of those that does not support them), but especially if you are just starting out, you should stick to the three primary intramuscular sites for injections: delts (upper arm), glutes (the butt), and quads (outside of the upper leg, referred to on the spotinjections site as the "thigh").

In addition to spotinjections.com, I recommend that you visit some other AS sites and read as many of their sections on how to do injections as you can. Despite the fact that some of the other AS boards cross the realm of trash (and no, I will not name specific boards), most of them have reliable information on how to do injections. We also have several posts on the subject right here in the A.R. forum, especially in terms of proper site selection and technique as well as the best needle sizes for each muscle site.

Injecting is primarily a matter of getting over your anxiety - diabetics learn to do this, quite literally, by practicing on fruit. Seriously. Don't do it to yourself until you feel comfortable with the notion of doing so, but ultimately, you will find that injecting is a comfortable process.

Finally, the toughest challenge you will have is your own enthusiasm. I know you're anxious and want to start a cycle as soon as you can, but I usually recommend waiting a specific length of time - in your case, at least a couple of months - and sticking to it. During that time, get as much self-education as you can, and begin to develop a solid workout routine, especially if you've been out of the loop when it comes to exercise.

You are at an ideal stage for doing all of this - clearly old enough to use AS and, since you haven't crossed the big 4-0 yet, you will not find it too difficult to lose weight. (By the way, A.R. also has a great Over 30 forum - you can jump to it using the forum jump feature at the bottom of this screen - which addresses some of the issues specific to those who are no longer in their teens or 20's.)

As for the source comments, you're cool. But in light of the comments in your profile about being ripped off previously, my advice is not to trust any source on the Internet until you have reliable feedback on them. You may have already gotten PM's or e-mails from potential sources; chances are that every one of them is a rip-off.

Again, welcome to the board!

[Ajax]

PW, everybody here was jittery about injecting at first. It's an unnatural act to stab yourself with a pointy object!

Read a bit more. Once you get your head wrapped around it you will see that injectables are far more effecctive and have far feweer downsides than orals. The difference makes a pin-jab insignificant.

Doing only orals will waste money, may incur side effects and you will feel like shit 'cuz your lifts will drop in size week-after-week when you stop them.

If you did Anavar or Winny, you might keep some of the strength, but neither of them add a lot of size.

Read some more. You will see what everybody is saying. Injectables are the way to go.

The first stab or tow might be a bit nerve-wracking, but you will ge tover it real fast once you see the results--hell you might even look forward to them!

[Darkknight442]

Hey packwork, welcome. I am in the same boat as you. I am scared to death of injections. And now i just am finishing a cycle of oral dbol . I am pissed at myself that i didn't read more. cause the more and more i read i see that i am NOT keeping my gains.. but ahh well life is about learning.

2nd off, I hope this doesn't get me kicked off the site but i have to disagree witht he moderators point of you being overwieght. I mean if you have no muscle and a small frame then yeah by all means you have to loose wieght. But are you at all big?? Like do you have alot of muscle?? cause those wight indexes are very general. They do not account for lifting, and people with big bones. And again no flame to the moderator, its just i used to get depressed as fuck thinking i am over wieght. You got to look at certain factors like i said.. your wieght and your fat. diff things.. Get some fat calipers and fig out your body fat. if it is high then you have to drop some wieght. If you have a low body fat, then it could just be you do have a heavy boine structure or you could justhave a lot of muscle wieght....


good luck man... I'll tell you how much size i loose on the dbol in a week or so

[Big Rush]

PW, I've been on my injectable cycle for the past 6 weeks. Only one week ago did I actually inject myself. I'd been getting my roomate to do it for me. One day, I just said "F*ck it!" and injected myself. It's soooo easy and painless. I look forward to doing it now. You just have to want it bad enough. A friend of mine just started an Anavar only cycle. He's already done one in the past an he swears by it, but he's not looking for mass, just definition. Any questions bro, feel free to PM me.

Oh ya, wecome aboard!

Peace

[A_Nice]

If youy check the Metropolitan Height-Weight tables, the standard used in medicine (which you can find at this link), you will see that the maximum recommended weight for a person who is 5'10" with a large frame is 173 pounds - you are almost 50 pounds over that. (And chances are that once you lose some weight you will find that you are not necessarily large-framed.)

According to those same tables at 5'7 barefoot at around 180 lbs with 9 percent bodyfat I have a "clincal obesity" problem.. Laff. Why doesn't someone tell me im fat ?!?!

[A_Nice]

Hey man, I also want to say.... I've been researching a lot about cycles and an oral only cycle is HARD on your system if you plan to go more than 4 weeks at a time.. Plus its more difficult to keep your gains. Ask yourself if its worth it....

I know needles are freaky, but they are the "safer" way to do AS by far it seems.

[packwolf]

It was such a blessing for me to find this place. In just a few hours, I have gotten encouragement, instruction and education.

TNT, you taught me a lot and you were precise on a lot of points. As far as my weight, no offence taken. I have known what my scientific target weight has been for a while. I will admit that I could benefit a great deal from losing 20 pounds and getting down to about 200 lbs but I will say this my friend, I can no way in hell imagine me at 174 lbs. As far back as I remember, I was 194, 18 years ago and I was cut. I was much more active then. I think if I could drop 20, and build back up to about 220 and most of it is muscle, I would have accomplished my goals. TnT, you were also right about my excitement. I want to start a cycle IMMEDIATELY. I am excited as hell but you have typed some sense into me. I have began working out again on a regular basis and I have started a very clean diet so it shouldn't take long.

I guess at my age of 36, I am feeling the sense of urgency to live out my dreams and one of them is to spend some summers with my shirt off again and being proud, getting the respect that all of you know too well, from the girls as well as the guys, (I am not gay and never will be, you guys know what I mean)

I was laid off a stressful job a month ago it has been a blessing. I am taking this time to get my life together and getting back into shape and walking big, hard and proud is on my agenda.

Darkknight442 , Since we are somewhat in the same boat, I would like to hear from you about your results from time to time if you don't mind, or anyone else for that matter. I am not going to go adding people to my buddy list after 2 days in here but I welcome all correspondents. Just having the passion feels dam good. I just have to take it step by step as TNT put it so well.


Thanks everyone, Keep hammering away at the iron. Don't get lazy. There are a lot of guys like me that would love to be in your shoes.Appreciate what you got and never give it up. I'm going to work out now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm Jacked. (natural unfortunately-LOL)

packwolf

[packwolf]

I would like to ask one more thing, At a current weight of 220 at 5'10, if one was to begin an oral only cycle, with lets say, dianabol , proviron , and finish with post cycle clomid, and worked as hard as hell but still ran and ate virtually a non fat diet and tons of protein, would you still be bloated after the cycle? What type of results would one acheive /

I will just read the responses and be done with this for now. I don't want to drag this on because I appreciate all of your input. At this point I could ask literally a thousand questions. FYI, I have been doing extensive research on AS and I will continue to do so.

[Darkknight442]

[i]
. I am excited as hell but you have typed some sense into me.

Man that is hilarious... typedsome sense into me... hahahah Hellsyeah I'll be done in a week.. I'll let you know what jhappens weather it is i drop dead or keep my gains.. peace

[Ajax]

I am going to go out on a limb here and will contradict TNT. (Never thought that would happen!) This is based on my experience and it might not work for everybody. TNT can probably give you some sound medical reasoning for doing otherwise (he's damn good at that) and if he does, you should probably listen to him! But here's my story:

I was quite overweight when I did my first cycle; probably upwards of 30% body fat. I was 40 years old, 6'3" and 110 kilos (242 lbs.) Four months out I am still at 110 kilos, but the BF is now more like 20% (that means a 10% increase in Lean Body Mass). I hope to be down to 10% by the end of the year.

The process went something like this:

I was working out (lifting) & dieting, but success was minimal, thus motivation was poor. I was depressed & lacked energy because of my physical shape. I had some joint/back problems that further limited my ability to exercise.

I read up on AS and, in spite of a lot of recommendations I decided to try AS. I figured that an increase in LBM and strength would help me lose fat.

Well, taking AS did help. I don't think the AS was directly responsible for my fat loss, but it's other effects motivated and enabled me to do things that helped me lose weight:

Seeing the muscle packed on motivated me to strive to do more to improve my physique. (Nothing motivates like visible results!).

As my strength went up, I started to get winded on big lifts. I stopped smoking and started to bike regularly.

After I put on a good 25lbs of muscle I decided I had a damn good reason to work very hard to lose more weight, so my diet efforts were re-doubled and there was a lot more drive to see it succeed.

I know that today, 4 months out I am in far better shape than I was earlier this year.

My major qualification here is this: if you are a big guy, make sure that you are in good shape. Doing AS & working out will add a fair amount of weight, so if you have heart problems, high blood pressure, etc., get that managed before you stress your cardiovascular system unduly.

[El Kabong]

pack, thanks for starting this thread! Great posts, all.

I'm 45 and I have some of those issues. I'd like to pack on muscle, but I still have to lose BF. So for a couple of years now I've been working out hard and cleaning up my diet.

It's VERY hard, especially the diet. But my training buddy and all my friends told me that AS wasn't the answer if I didn't have a good diet/work ethic. And diet seems to be, what, 75% of the game ? Depends on who you listen to.

I went from > 30% Bf to around 20% right now. I still need to trim further of course. And, you know what, I've learned that I just love being in the gym and hanging out with healthy people. Yeah AS and big freakin mooskles are still a strong draw for me. But no way do I want to waste the experience. there's a life style to learn first. You know what I mean ?

Not to mention that I have high BP and, since I'm older than most of you pups, I have to be careful about that sort of thing.

So I'd get extreme with the diet first, for at least a few months.

[Buddha_Red]

:bump:

lol guess whos still searching old posts?
for any newbies hit the SEARCH button and type away, these posts teach me so much.

thank you to everyone that posted