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What would be the best, least suppresive, stack? I want to a do a VERY low dose stack. Here's what I have available to choose from:
Deca 200mg/ml
D-Bol
Winstrol (oral)
Anavar
EQ
Sus 250
Test Cyp
Anadrol
I was thinking of running the deca with anavar at this point. I want to do the lowest doses possible to minimize side effects while still getting results - hopefully easeing some joint pain and helping to heal a BAD shoulder. I want to the least suppresive stuff as I'm a 34 year old chicken
Deca is a 19-nor which are very harsh on the hpta, var would be less but you still need to do pct
JohnnyB
Johnny B - do you think anavar alone is OK? At what dose - ED? And for PCT, what do you reccomend? I did a few cylces over 15 years ago and PCT was quite different back then LOL - we didn't do any!
Var & maybe then Eq are prolly the least supressive - but to be honest you're gonna have to deal with supression with any AAS wether you like it or not - especially as you should really run test with virtually all AAS ( & the test is pretty supressive)
Just make sure you understand PCT & possibly HCG usage etc properly.
Var alone is ok-ish (in my experience) depending on your goals, however it will still shut you down to a degree & you'll need to do some light PCT afterwards
As for Var only doses it depends on your goals etc - there's a good thread somewhere on Var only cycles - oh just foun d a copy of it (by dflood)
I've got a few more threads saved, but dont wanna waste valuable cyberspaceQuote:
MYTHS
Myth #1 - Anavar will not suppress the HPTA.
False. Anavar, used in adequate dosages, will shut you down. To what degree you experience side effects of suppression (loss of libido, lethargy) is entirely dependent upon the individual and the dosages used.
Myth #2 - Var is a weak anabolic, and is not effective unless stacked with a more androgenic compound.
This could not be further from the truth. At dosages of 40mg a day and higher, anavar is incredibly effective at adding water free LBM. At around day 6-7, increased vascularity should become apparent (assuming your oxandrolone is legitimate in its dosing), and strength gains should start appearing around day 14.
If used during a clean bulk, gains of 10-20 pounds are possible. If cutting, you will maintain weight, or even put on 5-10 pounds (depending on the rate of fat loss/severity of diet). You will keep all of your gains with proper PCT.
Myth #3 - Anavar will not require any type of PCT.
This is one ive never understood. It's a pretty commonly known fact now that var is a suppressive compound. So why is it that some individuals still refuse to make a small investment in some clomid/nolva....this is your testicular function we're talking about. That said, PCT required for var is not as "heavy" as PCT for, say, a test/eq cycle. 15-20 days @ 50mg clomid should be sufficient.
LIBIDO
The only real issue of concern that i have found when running anavar alone is slight libido suppression. Anavar is suppressive enough to where you WILL feel a difference in your sex drive (and not for the better ) when using 40+mg a day. There are three options to counteract this.
#1 - Tribulus + Avena Sativa - Trib at 4-7g a day and Avena Sativa at 3-4g a day tend to help prevent any loss in performance or ability to get it up. However, using effective dosages is going to end up being as or more expensive than options 2 or 3...but its your call.
#2 - Proviron - If hairloss is an issue in your choice to use anavar, then you may want to avoid this one. But 25mg ED proviron, starting after week 2, will keep you rock hard. And it will help to harden up your muscles too .
#3 - Maintenance Test Dosage - Finally, you could choose to use testosterone to keep your willy in shape. At a dosage of around 200mg, split bi weekly, everything should keep running smoothly. Also, this will contribute to your gains much moreso than than options 1 or 2. I would keep nolva onhand on the off chance that you are severely gyno prone. Bloating should not be an issue at this dosage.
BENEFITS
Anavar is a badass drug. This is why.
#1 - Vascularity
Oxandrolone will make you veiny as all hell. And quickly. Look out for brand new bulging forearms veins by around day 6. If you are following a cutting regimen, expect new spider webs in your chest, shoulders and quads by around day 21.
#2 - Pumps
When on var, the pumps are constant. Bored sitting in class/at work? Do some unweighted calf raises. After about three minutes, your calves will be ready to pop. Youll be doing something like drinking a cup of water, and after a minute of holding it, your bi will be completely full and pumped. You may have to cut some sets short in the gym due to the painful pumpage.
#3 - Strength
Even when cutting, you can expect new strength gains every workout after about day 14-21.
#4 - Fat Loss
Anavar has been shown to contribute to accelerated fat loss in both subcutaneous and visceral fat, concentrated effects in the abdomen and thigh area. And if youve used the drug, you can attest to this...if you cant sport the 6-8 pack look on var, its not gonna happen .
CYCLE
Anavar should be run @ at least 40mg a day to see all of the benefits it offers. Dosages upwards of 80mg have been shown to exhibit diminishing returns. Also, i cant imagine the intensity of the pumps at that kind of dosage.
Cycle #1
Anavar 40-50mg ED Weeks 1-8
Tribulus 5-8g ED Weeks 1-12
Avena Sativa 2-4g ED Weeks 1-12
Clomid 50mg ED Weeks 9-11
Cycle #2
Anavar 40-50mg ED Weeks 1-8
Proviron 25mg ED Weeks 3-8
Clomid 50mg ED Weeks 9-11
Cycle #3
Anavar 40-50mg ED Weeks 1-8
Test Prop 50mg EOD Weeks 1-8
Clomid 50mg ED Weeks 9-11
If bulking, Test Enanthate could be substituted for prop, and 100mg could be injected every 3-4 days...however, this could cause more bloating, and complicate PCT timing.
As a final issue, Anavar is a 17 Alpha Alkylated steroid, and is toxic. It has been shown to be less toxic than other orals, and is even used as liver treatment for recovering alcoholics. Still, i would limit my time using it to 8 weeks, 10 at the most.
I hope that people read this, and that it helps those doing their research to make the correct decision. If anyone sees any glaring errors, or has something important to add, hit me with a PM and ill do some editing.
Dflood
be sure to take creatine with the var. some ALA (for the liver) and policosonal (for the lipids) wouldn't hurt either
Bump for duke's post.
Duke - thanks so much as that helped out a lot. My goals are simple. I just want to be able to keep training, I don't even mind if it's light weights for 4-8 weeks, while I'm he****g my shoulder. I want to avoid surgery at all costs as well and it's FREE up here in Canada so many of you down in the US might think I'm nuts but I've heard too many bad stories about post surgery BS. Since I'm a competeing strongman and opening up a gym next year - I thought getting a bit stronger and better conditioned over all couldn't hurt too :)
As many of you know - shoulders are f***ed up things. Mine is a frozen shoulder/dislocation combo. I'm pissed cause I spent the last year successfully rehabing a left shoulder rotator cuff problem and now this one acts up. The pain is terrible some days and I'm not even talking about while I'm working out...I'm talking about palying with the kids, sleeping is hell on earth and showering etc. Having 18 1/2 inch arms seems to make the problem worse as they pull my shoulder down and forward - out of place. When I work out it actually feels better, getting blood flowing, working out the stiffness, stretching a bit and doing rehab exercises. I'm working hard on my rear delts, upper back, traps etc. I even tried 1 month off without success...it hurt way worse being out of the gym??? This sucks. So a buddy, a national level bodybuilder, told me about Deca as an idea and I stumbled onto this site. I did a few cycles 15 years ago - to be the biggest guy in high school sort of nonsense LOL I never thought I'd be thinking of using this stuff again but here I am.
Am I nuts or can a good cycle or two help me out? I just want a pain free chance to work the muscles, the stabalizers etc and get things back in shape. Heal the ligaments, tendons if possible. There's my story guys - I'm rambling on like the Cable Guy LOL
Any ideas? I will not do Hgh and really don't want to inject if possible. I respond really well to supplements like simple protien and creatine, glutamine and even tribulus so I don't think I will need a heavy cycle - less is more with me. At this point I'm thinking about trying 30-40 mgs Anavar/day for 8-10 weeks and see how that goes. I'm tempted to throw in some Deca too??? I'm so confused LOL
HELP
Hahahaha
I don't have any cycle experience yet so I can't help on the possible options other than a test / deca cycle seems to be one of the best options for joints.
You might want to check out the "over 30" section for more general info on older joint issues.
I have two bad shoulders. I was lucky and caught both before I did any real soft tissue damage. I am 7 days out from a right clavicle reduction and overall I'm doing well. I understand your apprehension for surgery. I rehabbed and tried cortisone on both shoulders for a year and a half each. Basically by orthopedic surgeon but it bluntly that if I still wanted to be some what athletic and still lift I needed to stop the bone from impinging on the joint.
Have you seen an orthopedic surgeon?
What was the diagnosis?
Have you tried a cortisone shot?
For future issues; I've had good luck with glucosamine and chondroitin. I tried it on the advise of a friend that's a PT for the Soxes. I tried it the first time for three months for my left shoulder with no luck (thought it was BS. Tried it again about a year later for six months. I didn't notice any relief in my shoulder but my knees got a lot better. They’re full of scar tissue and bone chips from partially ripping both tendons off of the bone when I was a teenager. I think gluc/chond. are good for older issues or general joint pain from age related wear. If you have a definitive soft tissue tear or tendonitis from overuse or impingement then I think it's only a cheap back up to really fixing the problem.