finally got my pct that i will run

**fballhoss51** · 07-25-2005, 03:04 PM

finally have my pct that i will run, just thot id get some input from tha guys who dont use clomid, b/c i dont want to and dont plan to use clomid

cycle:
wk 1-4: dbol 35mg/day
wk 1-13: test e 500mg/wk

pct:
wk 15-17: nolva 40mg/day
wk 17-20.5: nolva 20mg/day

my question is am i running tha nolva for too long of a period? should i stop at say week 19?

**scotttiger54** · 07-25-2005, 03:12 PM

you know, that really isn't pct. all nolva does is keep your est. in check. you need somethin to jack up your natural test. hell atleast run some tribulus or somethin. don't waste some great gains bc of some crazy reason your not running clomid.

**fballhoss51** · 07-25-2005, 03:15 PM

ye i was thinking about using trib, but im not using clomid, mods and other members have brought up some good reasons why not to use clomid

**lucabratzi** · 07-25-2005, 03:24 PM

can u post a link to the reasons why u shouldnt use clomid. and yeah i would say atleast run trib 4g a day.

***G-1000*** · 07-25-2005, 03:30 PM

i would like to see as well

**scotttiger54** · 07-25-2005, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by lucabratzi

can u post a link to the reasons why u shouldnt use clomid. and yeah i would say atleast run trib 4g a day.

yea atleast 4g. i'd also like to see some reasons your against running clomid. have you considered running some hcg ? doesn't do the same thing clomid does but works great in other ways

**fballhoss51** · 07-25-2005, 03:32 PM

http://forums.anabolicreview.com/sho...ghlight=clomid
from here

argument of swolecat and drevil on another forum

**fballhoss51** · 07-25-2005, 03:35 PM

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=21805

sry

**fballhoss51** · 07-25-2005, 03:38 PM

http://forums.anabolicreview.com/sho...ght=bad+clomid

**fballhoss51** · 07-25-2005, 05:46 PM

i found tha threads showing evidence....no one wants to help me out?

**scotttiger54** · 07-25-2005, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by fballhoss51

i found tha threads showing evidence....no one wants to help me out?

well you have scientific evidence supporting your theory which is good. however, i stick with what works. dr. billy joe can do all the research he wants, but when it comes down to it i retain a vast majority of all gains with clomid,hcg , and nolva. also i'm not an endocrinologist, so i can't give you educated answers. i can simply tell you what works for me as well as 90% of other members on the board. if your gonna stick to your guns then go for it. i'm curious to see your results and experiences with using nolva only for pct. but me personally... i'd hate to be the guinee pig

**fballhoss51** · 07-25-2005, 05:57 PM

ye lol well ill be tha guinea pig and tell u guys how it goes, i beleive a few mods have already done it, hoping maybe they can tell u how well it works but doubt theyll see tha post

**scotttiger54** · 07-25-2005, 05:59 PM

well best of luck to ya. when are you gonna be doing this??

**fballhoss51** · 07-25-2005, 06:02 PM

i have 4.5 weeks left of my test and then 2 more weeks until pct, month and a half or so

**scotttiger54** · 07-25-2005, 06:11 PM

aight bro... shoot me a pm when its all said and done and let me know how it went

**fballhoss51** · 07-25-2005, 06:12 PM

sure thing

**ant_8u** · 07-25-2005, 07:09 PM

I've read those threads and thought the same thing too

Let me know how you get on bro

***JohnnyB*** · 07-25-2005, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by scotttiger54

you know, that really isn't pct. all nolva does is keep your est. in check. you need somethin to jack up your natural test. hell atleast run some tribulus or somethin. don't waste some great gains bc of some crazy reason your not running clomid.

Nolva raises LH which signals the testes to produce test and it does it better then clomid.

Hormonal effects of an antiestrogen, tamoxifen, in normal and oligospermic men.

Vermeulen A, Comhaire F.

The administration of tamoxifen , 20 mg/day for 10 days, to normal males produced a moderate increase in luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), testosterone , and estradiol levels, comparable to the effect of 150 mg of clomiphene citrate (Clomid). However, whereas Clomid produced a decrease in the LH response to LH-releasing hormone (LHRH), no such effect was seen after the administration of tamoxifen. In fact, prolonged treatment (6 weeks) with tamoxifen significantly increased the LH response to LHRL. Treatment of patients with "idiopathic" oligospermia for 6 to 9 months resulted in a significant increase in gonadotropin, testosterone, and estradiol levels. A significant increase in sperm density was observed only in subjects with oligospermia below 20 X 10(6)/ml and normal basal FSH levels. When basal FSH levels were increased or oligospermia was moderate (greater than 20 X 10(6)/ml); no effect on sperm density was seen. As sperm density increased, FSH levels decreased, suggesting an inhibin effect. Sperm motility was not improved by tamoxifen treatment. In five boys with delayed puberty, tamoxifen treatment appeared to activate the pituitary-gonadal axis and pubertal development.

JohnnyB

**fballhoss51** · 07-25-2005, 09:10 PM

good read, thank u

**powerlifter** · 07-25-2005, 09:12 PM

I use both clomid and nolva during PCT - but I really have no sides ( floaters or moodiness ) from the clomid - best of luck to you - post your results afterwards for all of us to see - I am very interested in seeing them

**fballhoss51** · 07-25-2005, 09:13 PM

will do

**Property of Steroid.com** · 07-26-2005, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by fballhoss51

good read, thank u

I swear you've seen that study before, FBH51....

Its mentioned in my Tamoxifen profile, when I talk about what 20mgs of Nolv can do:

"If you want a comparison, it would require 150mgs of Clomid to accomplish that type of elevation in testosterone, but nolvadex also significantly increased the LH (Leutenizing Hormone) response to LHRL (5), after 6 weeks."

Full Profile:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=167802

Drummerboy posted that study a few days ago:

Clomid Verses Nolvadex!!!

Via linking to a thread on BB4L where I posted that abstract last week...

I had referenced this study previously around a year ago, also:

http://www.bodybuilding4life.com/for...04&postcount=8

And prior to that, I mentioned it in my Ancillaries Article:

http://www.bodybuilding4life.com/for...ead.php?t=3995

Where I mentioned that study and summarized it's findings (well over a year ago).

I know all that stuff was reposted here, I think in a thread you were active in...

Anyway.....sorry...I thought you'd seen that study....

Drummerboy is doing alot of decent work in PCT lately, you might want to look over some of his stuff, because he's really taken to asking the right questions and has been digging up some good information.

**tattoomike** · 07-26-2005, 07:12 AM

i get tracers like a mofo , but only at night when there are light changes , like gettin up to go to the bathroom.

**beast N°1** · 07-26-2005, 12:16 PM

i go completely blind from that shit, never ever gonna use clomid again, even if it meens i will lose some of my gains, but i'd rather lose some of the gains instead of losing my vision!!!