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  1. #1
    R-A-M-P-A-G-E is offline Junior Member
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    So is Clen anti-catobolic or not?

    I hear contradicting things, 1. is that Clen is anti-catobolic and helps build muscle 2. is that it doesnt and helps lose muscle as well as fat 3. is that if you take it 2 on 2 off it burns more fat and finally 4. that if you take it for pro-longed periods it is sorta like an anabolic . I'm confused

  2. #2
    Ejuicer's Avatar
    Ejuicer is offline Anabolic Member
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    Clen is anti-catabolic and slightly anabolic . Take it whatever way works for you, I've been using the benadryl method for awhile and it works pretty good.

  3. #3
    8-MAN's Avatar
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    A lot of people bad mouth clen but I think it is a good anti-catabolic. IMO, I wouldn't use it for fat loss though. I gave my rat 200 mcgs for two weeks on a clean diet and didn't see anything spectacular.

  4. #4
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    The problem is that many studies on this (clen ) are made with rodents...The thermogenic actions of Beta-adrenergic-stimulated-lyplysis in the human being is situated mainly in the skeletal muscle (1.2), and the lypolytic mechanism in effect here is still of an unknown quantity/quality. In humans, Beta1 and 2 stimulation increases lipolysis (4, 5), and increased energy expenditure; showing that the lipolysis actually increased the energy output(3). In the rodents, we find different mechanisms at work, and the fat loss comes mainly with UCP1 (Uncoupling protein1), which is situated in the internal membranes of mitochondrial Brown Adipose Tissue (BAT). BAT's adrenergic effects will stimulate all three - subtypes of beta-receptor, while I believe the research indicates humans only having 2 of them stimulated by clen (since BAT is not at work, beta1 & 2 are stimulated, while beta-3 may remain somewhat dormant). However, in the human beings, the skeletal muscle is responsible for a main part - of thermogenesisadrenergic-induced fat loss. However, stimulation of BAT is much more pronounced in rodents over humans(6) and it could bethat stimulation of the BAT could be influencing the anticatabolic process in ways in rodents it isn't in humans. Rodents are also known to have higher concentrations of beta receptors compared to humans, thus adding to the problems with using rodents in sympathiomimetic studies. However, I am hopeful that although different factors are at work, there can be an anabolic effect with humans also. If you read my clen profile, you will see that horses (closer to humans in terms of beta-receptor concentrations, and mechanism of action by sympathiomimetics like clen) experience this anabolic effect only after 6 weeks, and perhaps (speculation) that is the mark where humans will experience it also, as opposed to the very rapid onset of anabolism found in rodents.



    References:
    1. Simonsen L, Bülow J, Madsen J, and Christensen NJ. Thermogenic response to epinephrine in the forearm and abdominal subcutaneous adipose tissue. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 263: E850–E855, 1992.
    2. Simonsen L, Stallknecht B, and Bülow J. Contribution of skeletal muscle and adipose tissue to adren****e-induced thermogenesis in man. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 17, Suppl 3: S47–S51, S68, 1993.
    3.Schiffelers SL, Brouwer EM, Saris WH, and van Baak MA. Inhibition of lipolysis reduces beta1-adrenoceptor-mediated thermogenesis in man. Metabolism 47: 1462–1467, 1998.[ISI][Medline]
    4.Schiffelers SL, Saris WH, Boomsma F, and van Baak MA. beta(1)- and beta(2)-Adrenoceptor-mediated thermogenesis and lipid utilization in obese and lean men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 86: 2191–2199, 2001.[
    5.Schiffelers SL, van Harmelen VJ, de Grauw HA, Saris WH, and van Baak MA. Dobutamine as selective 1-adrenoceptor
    6.Differential regulation of mouse uncoupling proteins among brown adipose tissue, white adipose tissue, and skeletal muscle in chronic beta 3 adrenergic receptor agonist treatment.
    Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1998 Dec 9;253(1):85-91.

  5. #5
    GREENMACHINE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooker
    The problem is that many studies on this (clen ) are made with rodents...The thermogenic actions of Beta-adrenergic-stimulated-lyplysis in the human being is situated mainly in the skeletal muscle (1.2), and the lypolytic mechanism in effect here is still of an unknown quantity/quality. In humans, Beta1 and 2 stimulation increases lipolysis (4, 5), and increased energy expenditure; showing that the lipolysis actually increased the energy output(3). In the rodents, we find different mechanisms at work, and the fat loss comes mainly with UCP1 (Uncoupling protein1), which is situated in the internal membranes of mitochondrial Brown Adipose Tissue (BAT). BAT's adrenergic effects will stimulate all three - subtypes of beta-receptor, while I believe the research indicates humans only having 2 of them stimulated by clen (since BAT is not at work, beta1 & 2 are stimulated, while beta-3 may remain somewhat dormant). However, in the human beings, the skeletal muscle is responsible for a main part - of thermogenesisadrenergic-induced fat loss. However, stimulation of BAT is much more pronounced in rodents over humans(6) and it could bethat stimulation of the BAT could be influencing the anticatabolic process in ways in rodents it isn't in humans. Rodents are also known to have higher concentrations of beta receptors compared to humans, thus adding to the problems with using rodents in sympathiomimetic studies. However, I am hopeful that although different factors are at work, there can be an anabolic effect with humans also. If you read my clen profile, you will see that horses (closer to humans in terms of beta-receptor concentrations, and mechanism of action by sympathiomimetics like clen) experience this anabolic effect only after 6 weeks, and perhaps (speculation) that is the mark where humans will experience it also, as opposed to the very rapid onset of anabolism found in rodents.



    References:
    1. Simonsen L, Bülow J, Madsen J, and Christensen NJ. Thermogenic response to epinephrine in the forearm and abdominal subcutaneous adipose tissue. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 263: E850–E855, 1992.
    2. Simonsen L, Stallknecht B, and Bülow J. Contribution of skeletal muscle and adipose tissue to adren****e-induced thermogenesis in man. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 17, Suppl 3: S47–S51, S68, 1993.
    3.Schiffelers SL, Brouwer EM, Saris WH, and van Baak MA. Inhibition of lipolysis reduces beta1-adrenoceptor-mediated thermogenesis in man. Metabolism 47: 1462–1467, 1998.[ISI][Medline]
    4.Schiffelers SL, Saris WH, Boomsma F, and van Baak MA. beta(1)- and beta(2)-Adrenoceptor-mediated thermogenesis and lipid utilization in obese and lean men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 86: 2191–2199, 2001.[
    5.Schiffelers SL, van Harmelen VJ, de Grauw HA, Saris WH, and van Baak MA. Dobutamine as selective 1-adrenoceptor
    6.Differential regulation of mouse uncoupling proteins among brown adipose tissue, white adipose tissue, and skeletal muscle in chronic beta 3 adrenergic receptor agonist treatment.
    Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1998 Dec 9;253(1):85-91.

    Interesting Hooker. Maybe we will see people running clen for longer sometime in the future.

  6. #6
    Havvoc's Avatar
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    2 days on 2 days off, for around 3 weeks (body starts to adapt after that point, which is the reasons for the 2 on 2 off proocol) then run an ephdrine/ephdra caffeine stack. If you cant cant find any ephdrine then the caffeine will do as well.

  7. #7
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    If you want to run clen continually, remember to take benadryl every 3rd week for a week at 50-100mg per night

  8. #8
    davekutrone's Avatar
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    so what does the benadryl do exactly?...i read up on it, but I still dont get it completely

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by davekutrone
    so what does the benadryl do exactly?...i read up on it, but I still dont get it completely
    Long story short it upregulates your beta receptors

    Another option, if you are worried about receptor downgrade, is taking Benadryl, at around 50-100mgs/night before bed (every 3rd week or so, for that week). Benadryl is sold as an anti-histimine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cell's outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes tham as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitizaton of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

    Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.

    Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly. (7). This will allow you to use clen for much longer and it'll still have the same effects. Also, since Benadryl is an anti-histamine, and histamines have a direct effect on beta-adrenoreceptors (not just Beta-2’s but all of them), using an anti-histamine will have a direct effect on reducing beta-receptor stimulation (16), and thus upregulating your beta-receptors.



    Reference: hookers profile on clen
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=148950

  10. #10
    R-A-M-P-A-G-E is offline Junior Member
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    thanks guys!!!!

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