Roids in the old days??

**Schwarz** · 08-04-2005, 07:22 AM

Me and my training buddy are old school admirers (Franco Columbo, Arnold Schwazannegger, Frank Zane etc). We started discussing how they managed to get such good bodies in an era where there weren't as many roids as today, MRPs and protein bars/drinks probably weren't around either.

So I was wondering if:

1. Anyone knows what kind of roids these guys used in those days?
2. possible cycles they ran?
3. How they kept their estrogen levels in check without nolva, arimidex etc?

Thought it might be an interesting discussion....

Cheers
D

**Smak** · 08-04-2005, 07:41 AM

Supposedly, Arnold's infamous stack was dbol /primo/deca . That's what most of the guys were taking. The amounts these guys were taking are always skewed because we really don't know the exact amounts each one was taking, but compared to bodybuilders nowadays, it was in much lower dosages. Although I heard guys were popping dbol like candy.I have a great article I'll find that list some of the old schooler's cycles. Take what you want from it, but in the end no one really knows except for them.

**daem** · 08-04-2005, 08:02 AM

I remember hearing that arnold was the one that coined a phrase about dbol being the breakfast of champions. They trained, went to the beach, got plenty of rest, and ate tons of food.

I think if any of us could afford to do that for a few years we would be in the best shape of our lives.

**dirtyvegas** · 08-04-2005, 08:11 AM

ive herd some people in here say that in Columbo's book a quality cycle would be d-bol for 8 weeks @ 15 mg ed...And it dont sound to bad considering peeps are now taking 50mg ed for 4 weeks..in the end the longer d-bol cycle actually requires less gear.
But im vary interested in hearing some good opinions here.

~DV~

**Schwarz** · 08-04-2005, 08:17 AM

Cheers for all info so far. Lets keep this interesting discussion going.

So if the main roids of the day were deca , dbol and primo how did these guys keep their estrogen in check???

**Mighty Joe** · 08-04-2005, 08:35 AM

Not sure that they did any PCT either! Imagine that!

**smegs** · 08-04-2005, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by daem

I remember hearing that arnold was the one that coined a phrase about dbol being the breakfast of champions. They trained, went to the beach, got plenty of rest, and ate tons of food.

I think if any of us could afford to do that for a few years we would be in the best shape of our lives.

well put

**JAYROD** · 08-04-2005, 09:47 AM

i've always wondered what these guys took and the dosages myself, very interesting. what would these guys (arnold and franco) look like if they were in their prime today?

**Seattle Junk** · 08-04-2005, 10:17 AM

No, I really doubt Columbo took 3 dbols a day to mainatain his size in his prime. He is just saying that in the book but I don't believe that is true. All those guys took huge amount of roids but they also worked out like madmen. I don't think they would be considered huge amounts compared to what competitve BBs ingest these days but much more than 3 dbols a day. BBs these days depend on the drugs and they do not work out like those guys. The 70's was actually the peak of BB if you don't critique having freaky legs as a requirement. I actually think Arnold has the best aesthectics of all time in his prime. Upper body was no questions incredible and his chest in his prime is touted as the best ever. Look at

--------------------------------------

Arnold Schwarzenegger
VITAL STATS
Name: Arnold Alois Schwarzenegger

Nicknames: The Oak, The Austrian Oak, The Olympian, Oak, The King, Champ, Arnie,
Schwazzie, Arnold Strong

Location: Los Angeles, Calafornia USA

Born: July 30, 1947 Graz, Austria.

Height: 6'2"

Arms: 22"

Chest: 57"

Waist: 34"

Thighs: 28.5"

Calves: 20"

Off Season Weight: Around 235 lbs.

Competition Weight: Around 260 lbs.

Favorite Exercise: Bent-Over Rows

Competitive Record
1963 Steirer Hof Competition in Graz, Austria (runner up).

1965 Junior Mr. Europe in Germany

1966 Best-Built Athlete of Europe in Germany

1966 International Powerlifting Championship in Germany

1966 Mr. Europe - amateur in Germany.

1966 NABBA Mr. Universe - amateur in London, England

1967 NABBA Mr. Universe - amateur in London, England

1968 German Powerlifting Championship in Germany

1968 IFBB Mr. International in Tijuana, Mexico

1968 NABBA Mr. Universe - professional in London, England

1968 IFBB Mr. Universe in Miami, Florida (tall class winner)

1969 IFBB Mr. Universe in New York

1969 IFBB Mr. Olympia in New York (2nd place to Sergio Olivia)

1969 NABBA Mr. Universe - professional in London, England

1969 IFBB Mr. Europe - professional in Germany

1970 NABBA Mr. Universe - professional in London, England

1970 AAU Pro Mr. World in Columbus, Ohio

1970 IFBB Mr. Olympia in New York

1971 IFBB Mr. Olympia in Paris, France

1972 IFBB Mr. Olympia in Essen, Germany

1973 IFBB Mr. Olympia in New York

1974 IFBB Mr. Olympia in New York

1975 IFBB Mr. Olympia in Pretoria, South Africa

1980 IFBB Mr. Olympia in Sydney, Australia

**Super_saijan** · 08-04-2005, 10:25 AM

An aquaintance of mine who used to run an independant BB shop in my town (has since moved) told me that they were apparenty pretty resonsible back in the day and when someone wanted to up a dosage of something they would all get together and actually talk about it (bear in mind these guys were like glue, not like competitors of todas).

**Schwarz** · 08-04-2005, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Super_saijan

An aquaintance of mine who used to run an independant BB shop in my town (has since moved) told me that they were apparenty pretty resonsible back in the day and when someone wanted to up a dosage of something they would all get together and actually talk about it (bear in mind these guys were like glue, not like competitors of todas).

I agree. I think it's a shame that the camoradery (sp?) has been all but lost today....

**dirtyvegas** · 08-04-2005, 05:52 PM

so does anyone know what they did use or have any suggestions on how they kept there muscle and kept estrogen in check with no PCT and no nolvadex ,a-dex,clomid..??

~DV~

**WelshWarrior** · 08-05-2005, 12:18 AM

Interesting thread. After 8 years in this game I still think these boys had better-looking physiques than todas BB's. More aesthetic and less freaky yet still pretty huge.

Yeah, Arnie referred to D'Bol as "the breakfast of champions", but I believe that was after it was the front page headline on Sports Illustrated.

Would love to know what they used and the dosages, but I reckon we never will for sure.

**Rider** · 08-05-2005, 03:31 AM

What about Testo? Did they use p.e Enanthate ? Or they didn't experiment so much and just stick to the basics (Dbol -Primo)

**Warrior** · 08-05-2005, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by Schwarz

I agree. I think it's a shame that the camoradery (sp?) has been all but lost today....

Actually, forums like these help people talk about it quite well... and get some great feedback based on personal use and/or research...

**_Tiger_** · 08-05-2005, 03:34 AM

There was one quote saying "Half of arnolds weight during (some random years) can probably be attributed D-bol alone"

he popped D-bol like M&M's lol

**Warrior** · 08-05-2005, 03:36 AM

Off Season Weight: Around 235 lbs.

Competition Weight: Around 260 lbs.

Is that right?

**JAYROD** · 08-05-2005, 04:05 AM

i agree with you seattle, arnold was without a doubt the we have ever seen.

**Schwarz** · 08-05-2005, 04:18 AM

I've sent an email to Franco Columbo about our discussion. He might not reply but it's worth a shot.....

**Bigun** · 08-05-2005, 04:41 AM

Originally Posted by Warrior

Off Season Weight: Around 235 lbs.

Competition Weight: Around 260 lbs.

Is that right?

I know Warrior this seems strange, but I have read this in a few of his books. He would lose weight off season and gain near competition. This could explain his cycles when he was on and off i.e on near competition

**Squatman51** · 08-05-2005, 04:49 AM

I think he said in his book the most he weighed was 245

**Seattle Junk** · 08-05-2005, 04:49 AM

I remember a b&w pic of Arnold in a park or somewhere with a old lady looking at him while he's posing in public. I want to find that one, it's pretty cool.

Those guys that worked out like maniacs are very inspiring. Arnold, Lou , Pearl, etc. Damn, even Jack Lalane. Remember the size of his guns looking at pics back in the 60's? My God, enormous. Look at Arnold's achievments. He was a powerlifter before BB. Strong, lean and athletic. Exactly what BB should critique on. Not over bloated muscles engineered by modern science. Hard, well trained physiques with size and symmetry. My opinion of course.

Old school, I know. I'm still fascinated by Arnold's pics. There is a look of dominance in his poses and his body looks perfect, like an anatomy chart.

**scriptfactory** · 08-05-2005, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by Warrior

Off Season Weight: Around 235 lbs.

Competition Weight: Around 260 lbs.

Is that right?

Not even close to true... He was never even 240lbs for a contest... His max was closer to 230lbs.

Here are some excerpts from an Arnie interview.

oui: Can you push yourself too far?

SCHWARZENEGGER: I've torn pectoral muscles, fibers in my knee, in my thighs, and once I had to have an operation to repair torn cartilage. Generally you let muscles heal by themselves or get cortisone shots. Injuries happen when your mind is beyond your body, largely when you think you're King Kong and lift weights heavier than the body can handle. At the same time, though, we generally manage to have a good time. Bodybuilders party a lot, and once, in Gold's—the gym in Venice, California, where all the top guys train—there was a black girl who came out naked. Everybody jumped on her and took her upstairs, where we all got together.

oui: A gang bang?

SCHWARZENEGGER: Yes, but not everybody, just the guys who can **** in front of other guys. Not everybody can do that. Some think that they don't have a big-enough cock, so they can't get a hard-on. Having chicks around is the kind of thing that breaks up the intense training. It gives you relief, and then afterward you go back to the serious stuff.

oui: With a body as perfect as yours, it seems strange to hear you talk of criticizing it.

SCHWARZENEGGER: From the bodybuilder's point of view, my physique was perfect when I won my last title; yet I felt it could have been better. It's true that I was in perfect proportion, but I weighed 228 pounds and I wanted to be 240, overall just bigger. If you keep the proportions, bigger is always better. The goal is to carry the weight but keep the proportion and symmetry.

oui: Does that mean that 300 pounds would be better than 240?

SCHWARZENEGGER: No, because it wouldn't fit my height. I'm 6'2", and 240 pounds is the perfect weight for me.

oui: Wouldn't your head be out of proportion if you weighed 240 pounds?

SCHWARZENEGGER: No. Visually that can be taken care of very easily. All you have to do is let the hair grow and you have a bigger head. Also, in competition, the judges concentrate only on your physique. More than one Mr. Universe was an ugly son of a bitch.

Also, here is some info on his height.

While Arnold Schwarzenegger's height was always believed to be 6 feet, 2 inches (1.88 m), a July 2002 article in US Weekly magazine speculated that Schwarzenegger was actually closer to 5 ft 10 in (1.78 m). During his campaign for governorship it was noted that Schwarzenegger was considerably shorter than many expected, with others putting his height at around 5 ft 10 in (1.78 m), exactly as reported in US Weekly. His spokespeople now give his height as 6 ft even (1.83 m). In photographs of Schwarzenegger standing next to George W. Bush in Ohio in October 2004, the Governor is one inch shorter than the 5 ft 11 in President.

http://www.msu.edu/~daggy/cop/effluvia/arnold.htm

**Seattle Junk** · 08-05-2005, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by Bigun

I know Warrior this seems strange, but I have read this in a few of his books. He would lose weight off season and gain near competition. This could explain his cycles when he was on and off i.e on near competition

If you think about it, that's how it should be done to achieve maximum size and pump. But BB has turned into a freak show where the contestants are doing lasix (potasium hydrochloride?) and harsh diuretics to gain max vascularity while their health is in danger with dehydration among kindney problems. Fuggin stupid and not healthy. They also shoot up with that Italian shit that swells the targeted muscles giving extra artificial size on muscle heads. My God, why not just get plastic surgery via pec implants, calfs (Yeah, I think Arnold did that later in his acting career), delts, etc....Why even work out, just have everything implanted for show and do cardio only..... Think about how stupid these shows have become.....

**bigbouncinballs** · 08-05-2005, 09:31 AM

you all can knock it. i for one love the freakishness. i think arnold was a pie-fookin goomba and there were plenty other GREAT bb's back in the day. it is unfortunate that so many of you can only reference arnold

**Seattle Junk** · 08-05-2005, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by bigbouncinballs

you all can knock it. i for one love the freakishness. i think arnold was a pie-fookin goomba and there were plenty other GREAT bb's back in the day. it is unfortunate that so many of you can only reference arnold

Who do you like? It's all opinion....

**bigbouncinballs** · 08-05-2005, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Seattle Junk

Who do you like? It's all opinion....

it is all opinion... it just seems too many people getting into the sport know one name and one name only. this, to me, devalues the many top athletes competing at the same time of arnold.

i guess what i am trying to say is... arnold was not the only bb "back in the day" there were many who, in many circles, were just as good or better.

imho, arnold ran the sandows because of his attitude that was admittedly good for the sport and recognition of... NOT because of his physique.

**BigLittleTim** · 08-05-2005, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior

Off Season Weight: Around 235 lbs.

Competition Weight: Around 260 lbs.

Is that right?

That stat jumped out at me too.

Back in the "old days", (waaaaay back in the Regan administration, my children) didn't guys just balloon and "bulk-up" with muscle and fat in the off-season, and then beat themselves senseless dieting down for competition, as opposed to today when guys keep themselves pretty lean year 'round?

BigLittleTim

**mark956101957** · 08-05-2005, 06:39 PM

You need to remember these pros went to doctors and they were freely prescribed. I am sure the docs helped them with anti e's, pct or whatever was required for a succesfull cycle.

**Furo-master** · 08-05-2005, 09:40 PM

Oh, I have to answer this. I personally know a guy who won the overall "USA" in the late seventies. He told me that he used 6 tabs(30 mgs) of D-bol every day, 400 mgs of test cyp, and 200 mgs of Deca every week. He stated that most of the guys in his day stayed around 800 mgs total for the week. I could give names, but I don't think it would be right. This guy was in his lower fifties(his 1994 age), but he looked like he was in his late thirties. He never seemed to hold much water and always looked about six to eight weeks from contest shape. I measured his arms in the gym one day and they were 19 3/4" cut and veined out. All of this was at a body weight close to 190 pounds(he was 5'6" or 7"). I didn't see any of the "roid gut" like today, but he had the body structure from the 70's. I know another who won the Light Heavyweight NPC Florida(no names here) in the late nineties to early two-thousand. He used 200 mg of Deca and 250 mg of Sustanon 250 on Sunday and Wednesday. That's only 900 mgs total for the week! He is very experienced with being in competitions and eleminating water retention. So much for exotic cycles, huh? Yeah, I was shocked too. I'll bet he defeated guys who spent four or five times as much on "supplements."

**Warrior** · 08-05-2005, 11:08 PM

I don't think you really need more than a gram a week of total androgens unless you are trying to join the heavyweights in competition... I can keep a pretty good size with less than a gram/wk for sure... if you are not a serious heavyweight competitor with phenomenal genetics and androgen sensitivity - why risk all the extra compounds with cycles running up and over 2 grams per week? No amount of drugs will transform a Carrot Top into a Dorian Yates...