08-08-2005, 07:47 AM #1
Important Message: Guys, Always Get Bloodwork Done!!!
I can't stress how important this is. I know guys talk about it, but how many of you actually do it? We all tend to think it will never happen to us. Well, guess what? I got my blood work done and my cholesterol was a whopping 311!!!!
I get bloodwork done every 3 to 6 months. Not only because I am on HRT thearpy, but because It is so critical. I got my bloodwork done last DEC. At that time my cholesterol was 252. I wasn't eating that healthy and was eating a ton of red meat. My dr said, Clean up your diet and you will knock off 50points in a month. Well by the end of Jan, I dropped it 55points. I have been eating decent ever since. Well, 6 months later it soared to 311!!! I want everyone to know I have been either on a cycle, or on HRT thearpy for over a year. I truly now believe that's whats causing my cholesterol to sky rocket. It is common sense not to be on a cycle that long, but we do have guys that do it. We all tend to think "it will never happen to me." I was coming off at the end of August (I wanted to wait till summer was over because I get bad PCT acne), but after reading a thread on another board about this happening to a young healthy guy, I said I need to get my bloodwork done ASAP. THANK GOD I did. It was a wake up call and a huge learning lesson. The good news is my liver values and my kidney values are fine
Be safe guys!!!!! Our health is way to important.
08-08-2005, 08:04 AM #2Originally Posted by johan
08-08-2005, 08:05 AM #3Originally Posted by johan
08-08-2005, 08:11 AM #4Member
Originally Posted by johan
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
Hey informative post Buylongterm!...Thats too bad..Hope to see a post later on down the road saying "MY CHOLESTEROL IS SO FU(KING LOW!"
08-08-2005, 08:14 AM #5
I too learned about blood tests the hard way. I am also on TRT. I thought that things were cool, until I decided to check out the prices at Oasis. I had finished a cycle about three weeks before so my test numbers were low, but my fricking estrogen was off the chart. F*cking clinic way underdosed my teslacs.
Oasis got it turned around, but F*ck, I almost grew tits and probably would have ended up in jail for castrating a TRT doc... f#cking a-hole.
Moral to the story.
Keep reading and get your blood checked.
08-08-2005, 08:17 AM #6Anabolic Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
Glad to hear that you caught it before too long went by. Good post bro hope the rest of your blood work looks good.
08-08-2005, 08:21 AM #7Originally Posted by _Tiger_
08-08-2005, 09:19 AM #8Originally Posted by johan
buylongterm, I'm predispositioned for high cholesterol as well, my father's side. I believe my last reading was 220 about 4 months ago. We all know testosterone lowers HDLs (good) and increases LDLs (bad cholersterol). Too many guys on juice don't do blood work and they should. I know a 23 year kid that juices that had a 300 score. He's a big kid too. You would never think someone that young would score that high but it is genetic disposition. I too have been eating A LOT of red meat since I have been on this tbol cycle. Which is going great. I'm 202lbs and leaner than I've been in 10 years. I eat red meat while on cause it's the best source of protein/iron that works good for me. It's not just red meat, it's a combined diet high in fat, trans fats. Nothing wrong with fat, just the type of fat. Also I believe bad carbs impact bad cholesterol? Is that right Johan?
Last edited by Seattle Junk; 08-08-2005 at 10:27 AM.
08-08-2005, 10:07 AM #9
08-08-2005, 10:53 AM #10Originally Posted by johan
In the classic Seven Countries Study by Keys it was determined that for every 1% increase in total energy intake from Saturated Fatty Acids (SFA) a 2.7mg/dl increase in plasma cholesterol was reported. Therefore raising your consumption of SFA from 7% (total kcal) to 17% would yield a net increase of 27mg/dl in total plasma cholesterol.
08-08-2005, 11:02 AM #11
FYI, I just got my results faxed to me.
Total - 311 - should be under 200
HDL - 29 - Should be over 40
LDL - 263 - should be under 100
Triglyceride - 96 should be under 150
08-08-2005, 11:07 AM #12
I just read on my test where it says
"When fasting, triglyceride levels are greater than 400mg/dl, calculated LDL-Cholesterol levels are unreliable. It is recommended that direct LDL-cholesterol measurement be ordered.
If Im reading this correctly, it is saying that if my triglyceride levels were over 400, then the test was unreliable.(though they were only 96) But, my question is I fasted for 18 hours, could that effect my readings?????
08-08-2005, 11:45 AM #13Originally Posted by johan
My father is on medicince and I wish he would just eat better and excercise more in his senior years. He's 68 years old with genetically high cholestrol. When I see him eating ice cream and stuff like that it makes my worry about him. He was so healthy up until about 5 years ago. He and my mother moved to a retirement community in a exclsuive area. It seems a lot of people he met over there eat bad and go to resteraunts a lot. He use to jog and lift and he was in great shape majority of his life. Now he is fat and not in good shape.
08-08-2005, 12:06 PM #14Originally Posted by johan
Saturated fats actually play a number of metabolic roles that trans fats do not. Hormonally saturated fats actually have a key role in sex hormone developement, hence the reason why no ADA diet would ever advocate eliminated saturated fats entirely from your diet.
Originally Posted by Seattle Junk
Originally Posted by Johan
I have no links on the study because all of my information comes from RD books. If you would like a very comprehensive bible on this subject matter I would recommend Krause's Food, Nutrition, & Diet Therapy (16th Edition). This essentially the godfather of RD textbooks and what I use in almost all of my RD classes and assessments. It is a peer reviewed and approved text book used by many RD's and MD's.
08-08-2005, 12:11 PM #15Originally Posted by johan
Also let us not lose track of the real reason for this thread. GET YOUR BLOOD WORK DONE. Take it from my shitty results on this recently! Your health isnt a game!
08-08-2005, 12:14 PM #16Originally Posted by Seattle Junk
08-08-2005, 12:31 PM #17Originally Posted by johan
08-08-2005, 12:40 PM #18Originally Posted by johan
I agree, high LDL and low HDL can be treated by modifying your diet. However, as one gets older and has suffered from years and years and years of bad diet and lack of excercise they often end up in the nasty Metabolic Syndrome circle, hypercholesterimia, hyperlipidemia, hyperinsulinimea, insulin resistance, high blood pressure......the list goes on.
These people have so many problems that diet and excercise have been proven not to be enough to fix the problem and they have no choice but to add in a statin, bp meds, etc. in addition to diet and excersise to have a chance in hell of getting to target levels......or on the other hand, just get sicker and eventually develop CAD.
Obviously these are different circumstances where diet should do the trick, but people shouldnt fear meds, sometimes its what it takes to get them better (in addition to dietary changes)
Last edited by SexyKitty; 08-08-2005 at 12:42 PM.
08-08-2005, 12:51 PM #19
Hey Johan - whats your opijnion on policosanol as a cholesterol aid?
08-08-2005, 12:57 PM #20Originally Posted by johan
In medecine, a lot more is known about CAD and risk factors than diseases of the nervous system. Hardly anything is known of CNS diseases, because it is just not tangeable, theories can be formulated but it's still very abstract. For example, we know how we can prevent heart disease, we can't "prevent" depression, so comparing cholesterol drugs to SSRI's or other drugs for CNS diseases is not a fair comparison imo.
Just my opinion though As I'm sure you;ve seen, I like to argue both sides.
08-08-2005, 12:57 PM #21Originally Posted by johan
08-08-2005, 01:02 PM #22
Check out the aboce link for anyone intersted in policosanol. It's an intersting suppliment that I've been researching. I've been getting ready to do a 500 mg / wk x 12 week test e cycle and my precycle bloodwork showed my cholesterol as follows:
So I'm now on Niacin (1,000 mg / day) and policosanol (20 mg / day). I'll use this for 4 weeks before starting and continue thru the cycle. Obviously I'm already borderline high and don't want to screw it up any more. Also addiing 10 mg/ nolva a day as hookers post indicates it has a positive effect on lipid profile. Just my .02
08-08-2005, 01:09 PM #23
Wait a second...I don't think that it's statins that increase homocysteine levels, fibrates do (for lowering TG's). This can be countered by taking aspirin or folic acid, B12 and B6
**fvck I cant spell today
Last edited by SexyKitty; 08-08-2005 at 01:13 PM.
08-08-2005, 01:19 PM #24Originally Posted by johan
08-08-2005, 01:34 PM #25
Well, I kept on reading. Here's MY OPINION, sounds to me like this guy is anti-pharmaceutical and in this case specifically anti-statin. Yes he references a lot of studies but without reading those specific studies I cannot comment on the accuracy or legitamacy of them, just because someone references something it does not mean it's significant.
All I am saying is that high LDL and low HDL are risk factors for CHD (this has been shown a number of times, I will try to dig up "references") and statins lower LDL. It doesnt mean your not going to have an MI if your on a statin as there are MULTIPLE risk factors to consider, however statins just lower one of these risk factors.
If you can show me a prospective, multi-centre, double blind, placebo controlled study that proves statins significantly increase all cause mortality then I will indefintely shut up. But until then, these articles, although are interesting, are meaningless to me. Just my opinion, not trying to change yours.
08-08-2005, 01:42 PM #26
Thanks to everyone for all the useful info. How do they come up with the # when it comes to your total cholesterol reading? It's obviously not the HDL/LDL added up.......
08-08-2005, 01:45 PM #27Originally Posted by johan
Just because you take stock in fact that someone has a PHd does not mean I do, we obviously have different ideas of what we find to be credible so please dont insult me by telling me I am "lost". If I disagree with something and you show me something I deem credible then damn right I will question my initial thoughts. It seems to me you unfairly judged me by calling me close-minded, I am anything but, however if I feel strongly about something then it takes that much more until I feel otherwise. God-knows the medical industry has been wrong before so who knows maybe statins will be the next Vioxx (which was also prematurely taken off the market imo).
08-08-2005, 01:51 PM #28Originally Posted by johan
Last edited by SexyKitty; 08-08-2005 at 01:57 PM.
08-08-2005, 01:58 PM #29
08-08-2005, 02:02 PM #30
Here's a nice little website on the Franghim Heart Study, you may have heard of it as it has been going on for 50 years. They identified that high LDL and low HDL are risk factors for CHD. They also identified as you mentioned that high homocysteine levels and high CRp levels are "new" risk factors of CHD.
08-08-2005, 02:03 PM #31
I will try to find at least the abstract for you, in case you dont already have it.
08-08-2005, 02:09 PM #32Originally Posted by johan
Last edited by SexyKitty; 08-08-2005 at 02:11 PM.
08-08-2005, 02:19 PM #33Originally Posted by johan
08-08-2005, 02:24 PM #34Originally Posted by johan
08-08-2005, 02:28 PM #35Originally Posted by johan
teine will be noted as an independant risk factor. The good thing though is that we do have the knowledge on how to rdecrease levels of it (folic acid, b12 and 6)
Thanks for challenging my brain today. See ya
Last edited by SexyKitty; 08-08-2005 at 03:16 PM.
08-08-2005, 02:56 PM #36
Wow, nothing like a mature debate. All this does is help everyone out. Thanks you 2!!!!
08-08-2005, 06:23 PM #37
08-08-2005, 10:37 PM #38Originally Posted by johan
08-09-2005, 01:47 AM #39
I have a question(for Johan maybe) - i know that vitamins B6 and b12 neutralize the ascorbic acid(vitamin c) when taken together, so the practice is to make 2-3 hours delay between those compunds.
Is this true?
08-09-2005, 02:40 AM #40New Member
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- Wayne , NJ
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