21... This Is My Last Check Before I Purchase My Gear...

**Roid Rage** · 08-12-2005, 07:47 PM

Ok boys, i'm 21 years old 184 lbs 6'1 probably about 10% bodyfat...

I'm going to give you guys a bit of a background who i am...

I've been training for about 4-5 years... I have a diet which consist of eating clean and every 2 hours. I'm not new to the sport, nore am i some immature kid who came on here who happen to find test on the street and is deciding to shoot up. I'm mature, serious and disceplined.

I am definietly an ectomorph i always had trouble pack on weight, and the only way i was able to do it was OBVIOUSLY with a clean number crunched diet. I went from 135 lbs to peaking at about 155-160 lbs. I then packed on about 20-25 lbs with a number crunched professional diet which i made up with lots of research; I hit a 2nd peak at about 185 lbs which i am at currently (been here for a while). However for someone my size my strength is pretty impressive... so i like to think...

My current lifts are about...
-Bench 230 lbs x 3-4
-Deadlift 365 lbs x 4-6
-Squats 405 lbs x 6-8

I done a lot of research over the last little while and i feel i am fairly knowledgable on the subject, i am not walking into this blindly. However I am planning to hop on a prop and tren cycle. I have my PCT, diet and lifting in check.

My only concern is clearly long-term... You now have my age and stats, and some background about me. Would you recommend it yes or no, and why? I mainly want to know if i do this will there be any repercusions down the road? What about my growth plates, i am already 6'1 and i have not grown in awhile (and i know this doesn't really mean i wont grow in the next year or so) but i do feel i have reached a peak where AAS would be very beneficial.

Any input is welcome...

Thanks!

RR

**Roid Rage** · 08-12-2005, 08:03 PM

And if i decided to go ahead and do it now... What could i expect long-term... if anything?

**ward065** · 08-12-2005, 08:39 PM

if you don't do too many orals you should be ok. Excessive use of anadrol has caused people livor tumors and cancer over time i've heard

i'd recommend you use enathate/ cyponiate though instead of frequent Prop shots for your first cycle. Much less painful

**Roid Rage** · 08-12-2005, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by ward065

if you don't do too many orals you should be ok. Excessive use of anadrol has caused people livor tumors and cancer over time i've heard

i'd recommend you use enathate/ cyponiate though instead of frequent Prop shots for your first cycle. Much less painful

I'm not worried about the ED shots... and i'm not doing any orals... however its not that i'm concerned about... its the effects of the roids down the road if i could expect any...! Such as not beable able to growth when i get off my cycle etc....

Anymore advice fellas?

**Son Of Khadafi** · 08-12-2005, 08:47 PM

Test should be you base. Are you just looking for strength or to bulk?

**Roid Rage** · 08-12-2005, 08:55 PM

Lean muscle mass... so clean size in other words...

However guys i'm not seeking advice in regards to cycling... In a nut shell my question is.... with the ABOVE informatiom about me (my stats, experience, size, age, etc etc) would you approve of AAS use? OR would i be harming myself in the long run?

RR

**Son Of Khadafi** · 08-12-2005, 09:21 PM

No one can make that decision for you. If you think the benifits outweigh the Possible sides than go for it, get your bloodwork and cholestoral checked at the end of the cycle.

**Defconx3** · 08-12-2005, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by ward065

if you don't do too many orals you should be ok. Excessive use of anadrol has caused people livor tumors and cancer over time i've heard

Oral 17aa toxicity is EXTREMELY overexagerated.

The only case that I remember where it was proven that oral steroids caused liver cancer, was a case where a small 14-year-old girl was perscribed 30mg of Anadrol per day for 6 years. (Thats equal to over 100mg a day for a normal BB'er)

Don't be rediculous and you will be fine, however it is ultimately your decision whether you are ready or not.

**Roid Rage** · 08-12-2005, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Son Of Khadafi

No one can make that decision for you. If you think the benifits outweigh the Possible sides than go for it, get your bloodwork and cholestoral checked at the end of the cycle.

Why would i want to do the cycle and find out i ****ed up my growth afterwords... and why are we talking about orals here... i never said i was taking orals?

Why is everything so off topic... Ha... I'm trying to find out if my age and stats would be ideal for a cycle...

I know no one can make this decision for me bud, but people can make suggestions in regards to my age, size and all the other information i gave in my first post. The idea is to be knowledgable enough to make an educated decision not to make the decision and then later gain the knowledge to realized you ****ed up your growth plates or something.... come on.

I must be speaking chinese or something... I keep re-reading what i wrote and it seems pretty clear to me...

Anyone with some related advice? Please....

RR

**ward065** · 08-12-2005, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Defconx3

Oral 17aa toxicity is EXTREMELY overexagerated.

The only case that I remember where it was proven that oral steroids caused liver cancer, was a case where a small 14-year-old girl was perscribed 30mg of Anadrol per day for 6 years. (Thats equal to over 100mg a day for a normal BB'er)

Don't be rediculous and you will be fine, however it is ultimately your decision whether you are ready or not.

that almost sounds too good to be true...

However there was a piece in Muscular Development magazine either in the current issue or the last month's issue about how orals can be liver toxic too.

i've heard of ppl taking 150-200 mg of drol per day and getting problems though.

RR- i brought up orals because you didn't lay out your cycle. I didn't know if you were including them or not.

But as far as growing taller it certainly is possible @ your age; that is something to keep in mind

Something to keep in mind- you can get your lifts like your bench up to around 280x7 without a cycle. At least that is what one of my buddies did before he did his first plunge (after his cycle tho he told me he added 40lbs with 8 reps, but he was pretty stuck at 280)

**freakintraining** · 08-13-2005, 09:07 AM

read around alot of guys say not even to start to cycle until 23-25....i iwsh i waited i started at 20 and i think i could have gotten alot more naturally...but i didnt, i stopped growing height wise in 7th grade :5'10" ganted im 100lbs heavier i thinki could have done it better....change your workout and break your plateau

**Unoid** · 08-13-2005, 09:32 AM

you are fairly strong for your weight.

Although I waited until I was 235lbs at 14%BF to start my first cycle (I'm 3 inches taller).
I was 21 almost 22 wehn I did mine. I understand you prolly have a tougher time putting on mass naturally but You need to put on some fat get up to 15% and it'll make bulking with muscle easier.

anyways goodluck!

**Roid Rage** · 08-13-2005, 10:25 AM

anymore advice?

RR

**palumbo** · 08-13-2005, 10:34 AM

at 6'1 and that weight ill give u that u are pretty strong but to me that is still rather thin 185, if i were u i would wait a couple of years longer make sure that u have reached ur natural limit as i think 185 at ur height u could still easily put on 20 more pounds good luck and keep workign hard

**snowman** · 08-13-2005, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Roid Rage

Ok boys, i'm 21 years old 184 lbs 6'1 probably about 10% bodyfat...

I'm going to give you guys a bit of a background who i am...

I've been training for about 4-5 years... I have a diet which consist of eating clean and every 2 hours. I'm not new to the sport, nore am i some immature kid who came on here who happen to find test on the street and is deciding to shoot up. I'm mature, serious and disceplined.

I am definietly an ectomorph i always had trouble pack on weight, and the only way i was able to do it was OBVIOUSLY with a clean number crunched diet. I went from 135 lbs to peaking at about 155-160 lbs. I then packed on about 20-25 lbs with a number crunched professional diet which i made up with lots of research; I hit a 2nd peak at about 185 lbs which i am at currently (been here for a while). However for someone my size my strength is pretty impressive... so i like to think...

My current lifts are about...
-Bench 220 lbs x 3-4
-Deadlift 335 lbs x 4-6
-Squats 365 lbs x 6-8

I done a lot of research over the last little while and i feel i am fairly knowledgable on the subject, i am not walking into this blindly. However I am planning to hop on a prop and tren cycle. I have my PCT, diet and lifting in check.

My only concern is clearly long-term... You now have my age and stats, and some background about me. Would you recommend it yes or no, and why? I mainly want to know if i do this will there be any repercusions down the road? What about my growth plates, i am already 6'1 and i have not grown in awhile (and i know this doesn't really mean i wont grow in the next year or so) but i do feel i have reached a peak where AAS would be very beneficial.

Any input is welcome...

Thanks!

RR

This is just my own opinion .... you are so concerned about long term; BUT yet, you are doing TREN for a first cycle ; i would never do tren, on first, second or third cycle, it's to hard on your body.... test, and deca O.K., or test and winny.... but TREN on a first cycle ? i would not do it.
Just my own opinion. Good luck bro.

**Defconx3** · 08-13-2005, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by ward065

that almost sounds too good to be true...

However there was a piece in Muscular Development magazine either in the current issue or the last month's issue about how orals can be liver toxic too.

i've heard of ppl taking 150-200 mg of drol per day and getting problems though.

It totally depends on how your particular body responds to it. Its possible that that guy could have been sensitive to it. I know a bro who has ran drol at 100mg/ed for over 6 months with no issues. He gets his blood checked every month, and no liver problems thus far.

**Smak** · 08-13-2005, 06:59 PM

I would save the tren for future cycles down the road because I know there will be plenty

Tren is hard to adjust to especially for a first cycle so I wouldn't recommend it. I would substitute the tren for EQ and run it like this.

prop weeks 1-12 75mg ed
eq weeks 1-12 400mg 2 shots of 200mg Mon and Thurs mixed in with prop.

You will like this cycle!

**IronSheff** · 08-13-2005, 07:46 PM

RR,

I say don't start yet and wait until you are 24 or 25 even before you start with the gear. I know you may think that what I'm saying is garbage and that you'll probably disregard it, but try everything before juice. I'm not exactly talking supplements but rather dieting and nutrition partitioning. If you would like, I would be more than willing to help you map out a clean bulking diet and suggest some over the counter supplements that will help you just fine.

More basically, I say step your diet up calorically, complex carb wise and more protein(if you can as I am not aware of the breakup of your current diet, but I think we are all guilty of not eating enough to grow) and get a good weightgainer and a creatine mix- throw in some esterfied creatine with some monohydrate. Give that a shot for a couple months. Also re-evaluate your training split and excersizes as that can greatly hinder your progress to whatever goals you might have- I can persoanlly attest to this. There is working out and there is really living the lifestyle. Ask yourslef where you stand, and if you are really living the lifestyle and still can't gain, then by all means give it a shot, but tread carefully.

**Roid Rage** · 08-13-2005, 11:10 PM

I understand and i appericate the concern. But i think i a bit i might be abit more prepard then you might think either way here is my diet, as you will see it is a good diet (for the most part) and i was able to put on about 25 lbs with it before i peaked.

----------

1. Breakfast 7:30am (Take multivitamins and Zinc with this meal)
- 5 eggs,
- 2 slices of toast
- Oatmeal
- Juice or milk

2. Snack 1 - 10:30am
- can of tuna
- An apple
- Weight Gainer Shake

3. Lunch - 1:00pm
- Chicken breast
- 1 cup of brown rice
- Some broccoli

4. Snack 2 - 3:00pm (Usually take my EFA's with this one)
- 2 pieces of whole wheat toast with 100% natural peanut butter
- Weight Gainer Shake

5. Snack 3 - 5:30pm (PRE WORKOUT)
- 1 Potato, or some Brown Rice and some fruit and vegetables like another apple or orange

* LIFT AT 6:30PM * (snack 3 is my prelift example)

6. Snack 4 - 7:30PM (POST WORKOUT)
- Protein Shake

7. Dinner - 9:00pm
- Either more chicken or some lean meat
- Some veggies and rice

8. Before Bed - 11 or midnight
- Try and down some more protein, either by shake or tuna.

----------

Now i work a job with rotational hours so i dont follow this to the corrosponding hours, but i still eat at least 90% of it a day.

smak dat puzz can you explain a bit about EQ for me bud? and why this would be a good sub for tren ?

thanks boys

RR

**Smak** · 08-14-2005, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Roid Rage

smak dat puzz can you explain a bit about EQ for me bud? and why this would be a good sub for tren ?

thanks boys

RR

Sure. EQ is great for cutting and it's very mild so combine this with prop and you have a safe and effective cycle for a first timer with little to no sides whatsoever. Tren can be very harsh and can give you some nasty unwanted sides especially since you haven't ran anything before. Most people run a test only cycle as their first because they will be able to tell how their body reacts to the chemical. If they get any sides then they know exactly where it came from. Although tren and test are my 2 personal favorites, test is really all you need to be sufficient for a first cycle. Test will produce awesome results if your diet and training is in check. Tren is better off after you've had a few cycles under your belt. Remember this isn't a race so there's no rush my man. If there is a such thing called "Roid Rage " then Tren could possibly irritate it which we all know you have.

**flash31** · 08-14-2005, 10:49 AM

You said you benched 220 for 3-4 reps. I'm assuming you mean 320? being 185 and only benching 220 for 4 reps isn't strong. I hope its a mistake.

**fballhoss51** · 08-14-2005, 10:52 AM

245 is an alright bench for someone who is natural and is 6'1, if he was 185 at 5'8 thatd be a dif. story

edit: looks like most of his strength is in his legs got around a 450 squat at 185, prety damn good

**Booz** · 08-14-2005, 10:58 AM

all im gonna say is that if you are goin to do a 1st cycle i would not recommend tren ,test only be it prop or one of the longer actin versions and see how well you react to that before you start throwin in harsher compounds,jmo.

**fballhoss51** · 08-14-2005, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by booz

all im gonna say is that if you are goin to do a 1st cycle i would not recommend tren ,test only be it prop or one of the longer actin versions and see how well you react to that before you start throwin in harsher compounds,jmo.

agreed, i beleive i am gonna be using tren, but for a first time cycle id use test e 500mg/wk, i love tha stuff, or if u dont mind tha daily injects go with a short acting test to get used to ed shots to build u up to tren

**flash31** · 08-14-2005, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by fballhoss51

245 is an alright bench for someone who is natural and is 6'1, if he was 185 at 5'8 thatd be a dif. story

edit: looks like most of his strength is in his legs got around a 450 squat at 185, prety damn good

Oh man, I didn't take into regard his height....450 squat, how's the form?

I'm actually starting a tren ace/prop cycle tomottorw!!! 150mg prop/100mg tren ace ED for 10 weeks. then 2 more weeks of prop at 100mg ED

I'm extremely stoked. Hear great things about tren

**IronSheff** · 08-14-2005, 12:22 PM

Rage,

your diet looks fine, but do you really stick to it? If so and you don't grow, then fine- you have a disciplined diet and you have tried everything and you are ready.

I recommend what I tell every first timer: Test E @ 500mg wk for 12wks. You'll grow more than fine off of this. You don't need to stack yet because you don't know how test will affect you: how much you grow off of it; what sides you get; etc. I've said it all in another post. All you need is test right now, and esp stay away from the harshness of tren for a first cycle. Maybe, and I say maybe you throw in some d-bol to jump the cycle, but that would be the most. I'm suprised more vet's haven't said this yet.

**Roid Rage** · 08-14-2005, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by fballhoss51

245 is an alright bench for someone who is natural and is 6'1, if he was 185 at 5'8 thatd be a dif. story

edit: looks like most of his strength is in his legs got around a 450 squat at 185, prety damn good

No it isn't a typo however if i said my squat was 450 i meant 405.

My upper body is a gimp compared to my back and legs, 365 deads and 405 squats with a 230 bench. And i am all natural and i dont see anyone lifting what i lift for squats or deads being my size in my gym... i get people complimenting me all the time on my strength.... strength seems to come first and size second.

My forum is good i wont say i'm doing perfect reps of 405, but i can do it. Probably just over 90 degrees but with slightly lower weight i tighten up my forum.

Either way clearly tren is not for me at this point int he game this is why i post my questions, thoughts and comments... so i can get feedback from you peeps... I'll check into a prop and EQ cycle.

Cheers boys i'lll keep you all updated if you care.

RR

P.S. i went from chicken legs a few years ago to nice size quads with some great defination and strength.