THIS PCT - the opposide of Pheedno

[ianchov]

My PCT Protocol
Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid -induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex , is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel , or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

written by swale

This is an opinion of physician from another board.
But the things he mentioned here are totally different for example from the things that Pheedno says: Pheedno's PCT



In short: Pheedno accepts usage of Arimidex while on PCT and also usage of both Nolva and Clomid while this physician says it`s better to use HCG while on cycle and then usage of only Nolva or Clomid.


What do ya think guys?

[ianchov]

Bump!

[Titan1]

First of all is Pheedno a physician?

[ianchov]

No. I said that that the copy i pasted here is written by physician.


BUMP!
say your opinion

[Logan13]

No. I said that that the copy i pasted here is written by physician.


BUMP!
say your opinion

My opinion:
Samuri Jack is an ass-kicker! What ever happened to that cartoon, my kids loved it.

[ianchov]

My opinion:
Samuri Jack is an ass-kicker! What ever happened to that cartoon, my kids loved it.

Agreed. But let`s talk about proper PCT. Samurai Jack is for other boards




ps. if you want the Samurai Jack videos, we can arrange somtehing?

[Maetenloch]

FYI this is SWALE's (AKA Dr. John Crisler) protocol. He runs a clinic that specializes in male HRT at www.allthingsmale.com.

[Billy_Bathgate]

Well he clearly states why he does not want to run Ari during PCT. He states in prevention of possibly running E2 too low and making libido and lipid panels worse. That is his reason, he also states Ari has been shown to increase LH production.

He says why he doesnt use clomid.


Did you read the article? he explains everything he does in it. It not really totally different, some things are just different here and there.

[Duke of Earl]

Doesn't seem that different at all to me - still says dont use HCG in PCT, use nolva - he only says he doesn't use clomid due to potential sides - not that it doesn't work. The no ldex during PCT is also a hotly debated issue - certainly letro is a bad idea in PCT - aromasin might be a better idea.

[ianchov]

Well he clearly states why he does not want to run Ari during PCT. He states in prevention of possibly running E2 too low and making libido and lipid panels worse. That is his reason, he also states Ari has been shown to increase LH production.

He says why he doesnt use clomid.


Did you read the article? he explains everything he does in it. It not really totally different, some things are just different here and there.

Yes, I do read it. And i wanted to know your opinions about the subject "Which pct to follow".
So you`re both agreed with SWALE`s protocol?

[mark956101957]

I agree with your writing of what the doctor said that is how I have been running my hcg NEVER during PCT.

[righton]

There is a lot of controversey on the use of HCG during and after cycling by a lot of docs and HRT clinics. The seminar that Swale attended was organized by the Cenegenics Institute in Las Vegas, check out their site...www.cenegenics.com. When you subscribe to their newsletter you have a chance to listen to live conferences (via..computer) and also call in and listen to opinions from a hundred docs!

[Logan13]

Agreed. But let`s talk about proper PCT. Samurai Jack is for other boards




ps. if you want the Samurai Jack videos, we can arrange somtehing?

I use Pheedno's, to a certain extent. HCG @ 500IU/day for 10 days, 5 days later I start true pct. Clomid @ 100mg weeks 1-2, 50mg weeks 3-4, nolva @ 20mg ED weeks 1-4, and liquidex during cycle and pct. Liquidex is still going to leave roughtly half your estrogen available. HCG is awesome, for a lengthy or harsh cycle, I highly recommend it.

-Logan13

[ianchov]

Thank you, Logan13.

BUMP for other opinions.


What would you say about Aromasin ?
Isn`t it better in PCT?