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  1. #1
    magic32's Avatar
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    Best stand alone and why: Winne; Var; OT; or Primo?

    Gentlemen,

    I greatly appreciate your assistance and I have much respect for the wealth of knowledge you represent experientially, from reading and through networking. Please reply and permit me to benefit. Here is the scenario:

    I'm looking to cycle only one of these (Var, Primo, OT, Winnie) on a virgin system (physiologically speaking). It is my understanding that their properties are quite similar...correct? My primary concern and need for [B][B]ZERO risk is hair loss. That said, Primo as a DHT derivative shouldn't be considered...correct?

    Now what would be my best bet (financially, physiologically, biologically and cosmetically) and why? Again thank you all for your time and consideration.

  2. #2
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    Sorry, none of the above.

    The best stand alone would be Testosterone .

    Just do some research, this has all been asked many times before.

  3. #3
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    E,

    I'm only interested in orals, and specifically these four. Would you please comment on them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eGGz
    Sorry, none of the above.

    The best stand alone would be Testosterone .

    Just do some research, this has all been asked many times before.
    agrred, non of those Steroids would give u acceptable results alone. plus u shouldn't run most of them more than 6-8 weeks, excluding the Primo. which is not enough time to get good results.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic32
    E,

    I'm only interested in orals, and specifically these four. Would you please comment on them?
    Learn how to take a needle before you bother taking anything.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic32
    E,

    I'm only interested in orals, and specifically these four. Would you please comment on them?
    http://67.18.108.244/forumdisplay.php?f=102

    Click on the link provided, the steroid profiles are much more complete that any comments I could possibly make. BTW this would be called "research."

  7. #7
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    No offense, and I appreciate your answering the thread at all, but research is precisely what I do all the time. I’m an experienced (7yrs 3-medical, 4-institutional/educational) Master's prepared researcher. Based on my needs, desires and goals I simply want to know, from the forum, which of the four would be best for an 8-week cycle.

    I'd appreciate it.

    Juicer,
    Why would I learn how to take the needle, if that's neither my present intention or future ambition? But machismo aside, I'd sincerely appreciate your input on the question as well.

  8. #8
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    Var and Winny TOGETHER, that's my last call on this thread
    the only thing could stand alone with good results is Test (with all esters).

  9. #9
    eGGz's Avatar
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    No offense, but it sounds to me like you're just fishing for the response you want to hear.

    All Oral = Bad Idea. it's that simple.

  10. #10
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    How can anything in appropriate dosages, with the proper PCT be a bad idea for a first-timer, one 8-week cycle on a completely virgin system? Apparently, you don't want to answer this simple question and that's fine also. Thank you for your thoughts. Good day.

  11. #11
    magic32's Avatar
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    Could you comment Rickson?

  12. #12
    magic32's Avatar
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    Also, does Winnie have any hair loss effects? It is heresay, though I haven't read it anywhere. I just want to be sure.

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    OT for 6-8 weeks will show good results. take the plunge though or your gains will dissapear.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic32
    Also, does Winnie have any hair loss effects? It is heresay, though I haven't read it anywhere. I just want to be sure.
    Depends on the person, but if hairloss is in your family then it will you bald in a hurry. Not a good choice for the hair line.

  15. #15
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    Thanks Juice,

    That eliminates Winnie. Of Var and OT, what would you say? Either or both like Pump A Holic is currently on:

    Pump A Holic
    I have run Oral-Turinabol by ITSELF for a duration of 7 weeks at 40-60mgs and gained almost 15lbs, with a mild but appreciable strength increase, and INSANE vascularity--even moreso than var--which I have also run solo. I am currently STACKING the TWO.....

    TBOL increases LIBIDO and APPETITIE, whereas VAR DECREASES BOTH. Ergo, TBOL dose is maintained higher than the VAR dose throughout the cycle to counteract these sides.

    I am currently running a LOW dose TBOL/VAR STACK: I will NOT be increasing calories until week 4, as this is not a SUPER BULK. I am currrently 200lbs, 9% BF, and I want to be at 200-205, 5%BF. Looking to get into semi-contest shape, although i will not be competing.

    The liver should function healthily, as my total 17AA intake doesn't ever exceed 90mgs ED--and that is at its HIGHEST POINT. ‘s

    Week1: VAR 20mgs/TBOL 30mgs ***Extremely LOW dose to ASSESS contraindications***
    Week2: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 40mgs *VAR Never EXCEEDS 30mgs, due to it's negative affect on LIBIDO.
    Week3: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 50mgs
    Week4: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 60mgs
    Week5: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 60mgs
    Week6: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 50mgs
    Week7: VAR 30mgs
    Week8: VAR 30mgs

  16. #16
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    The reason most people feel you should use testosterone as the base for any cycle is the risk other AAS give of shutting down testosterone production without a proper outside supplementation. The male body does not respond well to a lack of test and this can cause a myriad of other problems. Orals tend to give less bang for the buck and also are generally harder on the liver. Since you are an adult and can weigh the risk to reward ration for yourself I would say the best choice of the four listed would probably be anavar .

  17. #17
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    I have heard from a few friends of mine, that with a good diet and propert PCT, you can gain well with Anavar alone. Everything I have heard in regards to hairloss from winny is as you pointed out, only hearsay, nothing in the notes and reasearch articles to back that up. The only thing with Anavar is that it does shut down the HPTA, so you should run test with it, only very minimally, but it should be run with it. As I said before, I know of a few friends who have gotten great gains from Anavar, so I would say go with that.

    Here is the link to the Anavar FAQ. It is a good read, and might give you a little more insight into what you would want to do. Good luck buddy.

    Anavar FAQ - A great read.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickson
    The reason most people feel you should use testosterone as the base for any cycle is the risk other AAS give of shutting down testosterone production without a proper outside supplementation. The male body does not respond well to a lack of test and this can cause a myriad of other problems. Orals tend to give less bang for the buck and also are generally harder on the liver. Since you are an adult and can weigh the risk to reward ration for yourself I would say the best choice of the four listed would probably be anavar.

    spoken like a true pro.


    i dont see any thing that needs to be added to this thread

  19. #19
    magic32's Avatar
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    I'm seeking Var/OT more so for they're inherent density/hardness, strength and minimal lean muscle properties, not to make significant gains. With this in mind, and Var and OT still on the table, noting Var's HPTA shutting down characteristic should OT be the choice. Or does it also possess that negative quality?

  20. #20
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    var would be the only oral i would take with out test.

  21. #21
    magic32's Avatar
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    Thanks fellas for you input.

    Above is doubtless the thread closing question, please wiegh in.

  22. #22
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    Thanks!

  23. #23
    magic32's Avatar
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    gsxxr,

    The Duke of Earl had this to say in a recent thread. Do you concurr:

    Duke of Earl
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    was considering exactly the same thing (var+tbol) as tbol wont aromatise & remains test based, whereas Var is DHT based - hitting your body from 2 angles pharmaceutically speaking.
    BTW how was the primo on your hair?? I've heard a few hair/primo horror stories (its ''DHT based'')

    Is Var DHT based? I didn't read that? Also is TBOL Test based? What's going on here?

  24. #24
    magic32's Avatar
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  25. #25
    magic32's Avatar
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    Well let's put Earl's theory to rest. Hooker's Var Profile, which is tantamount the Bible on this site clearly says:

    Click Drug Name to View Profile: Anavar

  26. #26
    yooo's Avatar
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    OT by far

  27. #27
    magic32's Avatar
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    Whatttt? Please expand on that declaration.

  28. #28
    magic32's Avatar
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    Juict,

    What were your 3 cycles?

  29. #29
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    You new members should fill out profiles, it helps the vets help us.
    I'm otta here...3:30. I PM'd Yooo for his explanation, and will continue this later, check back tomorrow.

    Thanks

  30. #30
    blodget2000 is offline Junior Member
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    ¿ TEST ?

    YES, INDEED


    Bhasin, S, et al. The effect of supraphysiological doses of testosterone on muscle size and strength in normal men. N Engl J Med (1996) Jul 4; 335(1):1-7:


    Testosterone E. / Number of males: 43 -Average LBM (lean body mass) gain:13,42 lbs / (600 mg/week-10 weeks) / $100/month


    RICKSON: Yes, Anavar will not aromatize at any dosage. Yes, Anavar is unsurpassed in its ability to promote strength without water weight gains, but Anavar is VERY EXPENSIVE.

  31. #31
    blodget2000 is offline Junior Member
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    LBM includes the metabolically active tissue that includes muscle and organs like the liver, etc..., connective tissue, water and bone.

    Total weight includes LBM and fat.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftgod84
    I have heard from a few friends of mine, that with a good diet and propert PCT, you can gain well with Anavar alone. Everything I have heard in regards to hairloss from winny is as you pointed out, only hearsay, nothing in the notes and reasearch articles to back that up. The only thing with Anavar is that it does shut down the HPTA, so you should run test with it, only very minimally, but it should be run with it. As I said before, I know of a few friends who have gotten great gains from Anavar, so I would say go with that.

    Here is the link to the Anavar FAQ. It is a good read, and might give you a little more insight into what you would want to do. Good luck buddy.

    Anavar FAQ - A great read.
    Not only Anavar but every drug of the above will more or less supress or even shut down the HPTA ...believe me I know!

  33. #33
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    I really like my non-test cycles. I recover quicker and keep more quality gains then if I used test and got fully supressed.

    I don't bloat out, don't have to take any ancillary drugs, and don't have the androgenic sides that I do when I use test.

    The are varying degrees of supression, and suppression is different for each individual. Just to blatantly say "all steriods suppress HPTA" is a lame reason for using test because test will suppress you much more so then alot of compounds. And yes, there are people who respond very well without using test during cycle. I bet 99% of the members on here that parrot test all the time have never even tried a cycle without it.

    Put simply, the "synergic" affect of using test is way overrated. The reason most use it is to feel good and and be horny all the time, which IMO is the wrong reason for using AAS (as a recreational drug).

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by spooledup
    Put simply, the "synergic" affect of using test is way overrated. The reason most use it is to feel good and and be horny all the time, which IMO is the wrong reason for using AAS (as a recreational drug).
    Taking test is more than to do with just being horny all the time. The male body needs test to function. Its what made you a man and keeps you a man. The male body needs test for mood, energy, sense of well being, and overall health.

    Test is the only steroid that is actually produced naturally by your body and it is quite synergistic with other compounds b/c of this.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhorn814
    Taking test is more than to do with just being horny all the time. The male body needs test to function. Its what made you a man and keeps you a man. The male body needs test for mood, energy, sense of well being, and overall health.

    Test is the only steroid that is actually produced naturally by your body and it is quite synergistic with other compounds b/c of this.
    So if what your saying is that testosterone creates a sense of well being, energy, and overall health?

    I think I can add a fair assumption that women have less test than men. Additionally, it(testosterone) is not strictly a male hormone.

    If test (at the level experiences by most adult males) creates a sense of well being, energy, and overall health, then women because of their lower testosterone levels should be deficient in terms of sense of well being, energy and overall health when compared to their male counterparts.

    Testosterone performs most of the same functions in women that it does in men ... increases muscle mass, libido, dictates certain fat deposits etc, tells the body to grow hair in certain places... you know the whole bit.

  36. #36
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    Var, Winny, and Primo are based on DHT...not just Winny. If you want to use primo, go for primo depot. the tabs are extremely expensive and ineffective. winny will also destroy your joints bro. Var when used alone, at least for me, makes me somewhat tired and GI problems and is ineffective.

    Step up to injectables bro. Even if you want to use winny or primo alone you need to inject...

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shortyrock13
    So if what your saying is that testosterone creates a sense of well being, energy, and overall health?

    I think I can add a fair assumption that women have less test than men. Additionally, it(testosterone) is not strictly a male hormone.

    If test (at the level experiences by most adult males) creates a sense of well being, energy, and overall health, then women because of their lower testosterone levels should be deficient in terms of sense of well being, energy and overall health when compared to their male counterparts.

    Testosterone performs most of the same functions in women that it does in men ... increases muscle mass, libido, dictates certain fat deposits etc, tells the body to grow hair in certain places... you know the whole bit.
    Well why do people get depressed, tired, lazy, unmotivated, etc when they come off a cycle and during PCT? Low testosterone levels!!!

    Ask anybody on HRT how they feel now that they are supplementing test vs having low natural test due to aging or other factors.

  38. #38
    leansauce is offline Associate Member
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    u really think test is the only thing that can improve mood, well being, energy and overall health, no doubt it defnitely does do this i am sure that females and males alike must also both have some sort of other hormone that also has these attributes. test is not the only thing that signals the release of seratonin in other words

  39. #39
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    "Now what would be my best bet (, physiologically, biologically and cosmetically) and why? Again thank you all for your time and consideration."

    Notice that i deleted financially.Can't have the best of both worlds. If you know where to look, even @ 100mg's a day it's not going to run you more than $2.00. If you're new to the game you might pay as much as $20.00 for that same daily dosage.

    First time up to bat and you want a meatball. Deff go w/ the var.

  40. #40
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    Cycle

    Magic 32:

    I would recommend anavar . I have been doing cycles off and on for almost 20 years.

    I am prone to hairloss and I do not notice any aggravated hairloss problem when taking anavar. I do notice aggravated hairloss when taking winny and primo. Never tried OT.

    Regarding test, I do think it is good stuff. I am taking it now. (And using propecia and rogaine to hopefully negate any possible hairloss effect from the test.)

    There are some people on this site who say that every cycle should have test, I respect their opinion but I personally have had success with numerous cycles without test.

    Just keep in mind that anavar is not a "size and mass" drug and if "size and mass" is what you are looking for, you won't get much from anavar.

    Good luck

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