My first cycle...deca/dbol (hear me out here)

**sublime_4_life** · 08-20-2005, 05:26 AM

First I just want to say that I just signed up for this site and I am very glad I found it today...I have been doing a lot of research on cycles and up until now almost every article I read said that the deca /dbol was a good stack..Now I get here and everyone (it seems) is against it...or against it if test is not included. So firstly here are my stats

5'9
195 (up from around 170-175 6 mo ago) I did this all natural, gained quite a bit of muscle but fat as well
Goals - to continue bulking till dec, then cut down for a cruise I am going on in march

I would like to get up to about 215 before I cut down. I wanted to try a cycle to just see what gains I could make...I doubt steroids is going to be an ongoing thing for me, I really just wanted to try it but who knows what the future will hold. I would like to stay natural but eh

Anyways what my research has given me (until now) is the following...

Dianabol for 6 weeks...25-30mg/day, take half early, half later (as in 3 5mg tabs, then 2 later that day due to the short half life, although my friend that did this stack just took all 5 at once)

Stacked with deca for 10 weeks... 200mg/ml 1 time a week. I have also read a stack where you cycle 100,200,300,400,400,300,200,100 for 8 weeks...what would be better?

Doing this stack i read it was smart to take Proviron and Nolvadex while on the cycle...As an anti-estro and also to keep water retention down since dbol gives a high water retention. I was going to do this the last month-month and a half of the cycle (well since deca is 10 weeks) Am I wrong here?

Also I was going to take Clomid for 3 weeks after the cycle (deca) to help restore the test to natural and keep as much gains as possible.

So thats where I have gotten with everything...I thought I had it together till i came here and everyone shot down that stack lol. As it stands though and this was what I was going to do, do I have it about right? Any suggestions to this?

As for test...well this is a first cycle for me and I wanted to keep it as simple as possible..I understand that test would increase gains a lot more but I am just cautious of the side effects and pumping my body full of so many different chemicals. This may seem too safe or something but I havent done too much research on straight test so thats what I am going to do now.

So please can anyone offer any insight to this? I would appreciate any comments or suggestions...Also my friend did the deca/dbol combo and he loved his results, gained around 20-25lbs, with very little fat (just cause he was a skinny surfer type lol)

And i read about this deca dick...well I just have to say thats the least of my worries right now...I am in a position (dont ask) where I am not getting any anyways so thats the least of my worries.

Finally, I take creatine and l glut which I plan on continuing through the first cycle, no negatives against that right? My diet is in order, lots of protein and carbs and fat, I have the nutrition side down pact.

Thanks for your help

**Testo^** · 08-20-2005, 05:30 AM

Man, as a first cycle i would much rather do

1 - 4 dbol 30mg ed
1 - 12 or 14 500mg test e ew
Nolva throughout and pct start 2 weeks after last shoot....

**GREENMACHINE** · 08-20-2005, 06:00 AM

Don't pyramid your doses.

**TheMudMan** · 08-20-2005, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Testo^

Man, as a first cycle i would much rather do

1 - 4 dbol 30mg ed
1 - 12 or 14 500mg test e ew
Nolva throughout and pct start 2 weeks after last shoot....

This is a better choice then the one you have laid out.

**sublime_4_life** · 08-20-2005, 07:24 AM

Ok a couple things about the cycle you proposed...

1. is the amount of cash that it would take to purchase all of that...the cycle I had mentioned will cost me about 300 bucks where as this is going to cost far more with the prices I have found.

2. With this cycle you recommended how much gains am I talking about here? I have to be very careful from gaining too much too quick because if my employers notice this I WILL get a steroid drug test and will be more screwed that you could imagine.

thats why with the stack i was going to do, it would gain a lot but not as much as this one you are talking about..Obviously the goal for everyone taking gear is to gain as much as possible, I am one of the unlucky few who cant go "all the way" on this cycle, does that make sense? It sucks but I just have to be really careful here.

So between what I said and what you recommended what would the difference of gains in muscle, fat etc really be? Also that product PCT...i take it that is much preferred over taking clomid post cycle correct?

So back to the original question...what I proposed is taht good if I am going to do that cycle? Besides not cycling is everything else in order? Once again, dont get on me for being hard headed or anythign about not taking test but I just have to be real careful with this cycle thats all.

Any more info is much appreciated

**yooo** · 08-20-2005, 08:08 AM

$300, for that, ripped

**wolfyEVH** · 08-20-2005, 08:31 AM

1. no test, no cycle. sorry, but if you didnt go the test route, anavar only would be about it.

2. you dont want to pump your body with so many chemicals, ok, how bout JUST test??

3. what kind of job do you work at that will test for steroids ??? especially by them just looking how big you are getting?

4. deca dick is not your only worry. the male body needs testosterone for a handful of other reasons. you're gonna have ZERO test after your first shot of deca. you make no sense, not to mention deca is detectable for 18months, (test e only 3 months) and you "supposedly" are at risk for steroid testing

**wolfyEVH** · 08-20-2005, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by yooo

$300, for that, ripped

exactly. big time

**sublime_4_life** · 08-20-2005, 10:36 AM

Ok well to answer your question about what job I have...I am in the military and they dont test for it as its too expensive, but if they have probable cause they will test for it thats why I was trying to be cautious.

Also you mentioned I was getting ripped buying all that stuff...Damn I wish I knew where you all were getting your stuff...I got that after checking with about 7 different sites..Like dbol was 50bucks/100 5mg (i would need at least 200 tabs) tabs and deca was 110 for 10 weeks worth, clomid was like 20 bucks for 20 tabs and nolva and proviron were about the same...So yea that sucks, I just havent found it any cheaper. Also you say just taking test...hmm never thought about that. Well if i took a stack with test and pct afterwards, what type of gains will I be looking at here. Also you said test e... that meaning enanthate right? Whats the difference between that and the others...like CYPIONATE ? I read the profiles for each but was just curious what the difference in gains would be. Also the test e I have found only for 17bucks/250mg which is pretty spendy...is that about the average cost or...? the other test products are far cheaper it seems, which is why I assume they dont work as well?

Thanks again

**PSman00** · 08-20-2005, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by sublime_4_life

Ok well to answer your question about what job I have...I am in the military and they dont test for it as its too expensive, but if they have probable cause they will test for it thats why I was trying to be cautious.

you dont think they are going to notice any increase in size/mass/strength etc from dbol and deca ? or test at that?

almost all of the roids out there is going to show you a nice increase and they most likely will notice it and test you!

**sublime_4_life** · 08-20-2005, 12:00 PM

yea true man i know what you are saying with any gear you take you are gonna gain a lot of weight..I just thought with pure test it would be a lot more than any other...I have already gained 25lbs and they havent said anything but with test I thought it would be a little over the top, which was why i was hesitant to try it

**PSman00** · 08-20-2005, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by sublime_4_life

yea true man i know what you are saying with any gear you take you are gonna gain a lot of weight..I just thought with pure test it would be a lot more than any other...I have already gained 25lbs and they havent said anything but with test I thought it would be a little over the top, which was why i was hesitant to try it

Well if this is your first cycle you should of gone with at least a test only at min.

but the deca and dbol is gonna blow you up with alot of water retention. Dont know how much weight you'll gain from it then lose after the cycle is over, but if they notice your weight going up and down , dont ya think they are gonna question you?

**AG5678** · 08-20-2005, 12:46 PM

Kiss your sex drive goodbye

AG5678

**PSman00** · 08-20-2005, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by AG5678

Kiss your sex drive goodbye

AG5678

I'll second that...when i ****ed up and did deca only...no sex drive..none, nada......take some test and defently do your pct

**sublime_4_life** · 08-21-2005, 01:16 AM

Ok well you have convinced me to go the test e method...So you say to take nolva the entire cycle? reguardless if you get the estr traits? Also pct the product that is linked to this, is that what all you guys use post cycle or do you use clomid or what? Finanally, what would a decent price be for the test e? i just wanna make sure i dont get screwed

Thanks

**Muscle_Maniac** · 08-21-2005, 10:29 AM

DECA +DBOL =ONE OF THE WORST CYCLES U CAN DO. A bunch of water, u'll lose ur gains quick, and loads of terrible side effects. I've never tried either one, but from what I know about them, personally, I'd never lay my hands on either one. Like everyone else is saying, run a cycle of test propeniate or test enathate and some anavar ....that's what I'd do, if it was up to me.

**Drummerboy** · 08-21-2005, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by sublime_4_life

Ok a couple things about the cycle you proposed...

1. is the amount of cash that it would take to purchase all of that...the cycle I had mentioned will cost me about 300 bucks where as this is going to cost far more with the prices I have found.

2. With this cycle you recommended how much gains am I talking about here? I have to be very careful from gaining too much too quick because if my employers notice this I WILL get a steroid drug test and will be more screwed that you could imagine.

thats why with the stack i was going to do, it would gain a lot but not as much as this one you are talking about..Obviously the goal for everyone taking gear is to gain as much as possible, I am one of the unlucky few who cant go "all the way" on this cycle, does that make sense? It sucks but I just have to be really careful here.

So between what I said and what you recommended what would the difference of gains in muscle, fat etc really be? Also that product PCT...i take it that is much preferred over taking clomid post cycle correct?

So back to the original question...what I proposed is taht good if I am going to do that cycle? Besides not cycling is everything else in order? Once again, dont get on me for being hard headed or anythign about not taking test but I just have to be real careful with this cycle thats all.

Any more info is much appreciated

dont take juice if your gonna be tested

**The Baron** · 08-21-2005, 12:30 PM

Test-only is not only the best way to go for a first cycle, but also probably the cheapest. Test cyp or E will invariably be cheaper than deca .

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**fballhoss51** · 08-21-2005, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by The Baron

Test-only is not only the best way to go for a first cycle, but also probably the cheapest. Test cyp or E will invariably be cheaper than deca .

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lol ye, 2 vials test, nolva for pct, clomid for pct, that wouldnt even bring u over 100$, deca is much more expensive than test

and 2nd...how do u kno they would give u a STEROID test, this is much more expensive than a rec. drug test and u have to specifically test for it, i highly doubt they could do this

**sublime_4_life** · 08-22-2005, 01:11 AM

Ok you said 2 vials test and the nolva and clomid...i could see that for under 100 bucks but for a 12 week cycle i would need 2btls/week to get 500mg So I would need 24 total right? thats what im saying about it costing a lot more than deca as the cheapest i found it is like 16 bucks/btl Is that a rip? Also about the test...yes it is way too expensive to give it to us thats why they dont...They do however "say" they will if they have probable cause. This is why i was going to take it because i have already gained 25lbs and nothing yet, so if i gained again like that I doubt as if they would. I am not going to do the deca/dbol as everyone convinced me away from that...Just want to make sure I dont get screwed on the test ya know?

**caddilac** · 08-22-2005, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by sublime_4_life

Also pct the product that is linked to this, is that what all you guys use post cycle or do you use clomid or what?
Thanks

PCT means post cycle therapy - it's not an actual product. Nolva and clomid are both used for it.

Also, that sounds like a decent price but I would be careful if you are ordering it and having it shipped on base. When I was in the military, a guy in my unit got busted for having AAS shipped on base and got some stiff punishment.

**caddilac** · 08-22-2005, 01:28 AM

Sorry I didn't understand you at first. If you are talking about 1btl= 1cc/250mg then yes that is a ripoff.

**The Baron** · 08-22-2005, 01:55 AM

A vial normally contains 10ml, and if it is compounded at 200mg/ml, and you want 500mg/week, well, you have 2000mg in the jug so one jug is good for 4 weeks, right? So a 12 week cycle would require three jugs. If it were 250mg/ml, then a vial would last you 5 weeks. So at the end of 12 weeks you would have used two jugs and also a bit less than half of a third jug, but if you did a 10 week cycle, two jugs would do you just fine.

You would need 24 AMPS, if you bought test in amps. Generally, multi-use vials are cheaper than amps. Also dosing is more flexible.

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**dirtyvegas** · 08-22-2005, 04:03 AM

Bro go a low dose test cycle or just Anavar /turanibol alone would be fine sence your not trying to get all huge and get fired.

Test low dose
OR
Anavar 40mg ED

Would be just fine for what yur trying to do..

**sublime_4_life** · 08-25-2005, 10:17 AM

thanks again for the replies guys...Well I wish i could find that 10ml vial Baron but all the sites I have been to only sell the doses in the 250ml vials...Sucks to be me I guess because those run for like 15 bucks a pop...thats why my prices were so high...As for the being tested thing, i highly doubt I will so im not stressin about that. So yea I am going to try the test e 500mg EW for 12 weeks, taking nolva with that..pct would be clomid. But could someone answer the q about test c and test e? Like would the gains be roughly the same..As far as I have read the only diff is the area they come from (as in US and Europe) because I can get the test c way cheaper. Also just a broad q but lets say I gain 25-30lbs doing this cycle...How much muscle would be expected to be lost after the cycle...I know this has A LOT to do with pct and diet but I am just curious if I gain around 30 lbs (which will be a combo of fat/muscle and water) , how much would be lost afterwards? Also what are your thoughts on taking sus instead of test e or c? Thanks again guys

**Swifto** · 08-25-2005, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by sublime_4_life

thanks again for the replies guys...Well I wish i could find that 10ml vial Baron but all the sites I have been to only sell the doses in the 250ml vials...Sucks to be me I guess because those run for like 15 bucks a pop...thats why my prices were so high...As for the being tested thing, i highly doubt I will so im not stressin about that. So yea I am going to try the test e 500mg EW for 12 weeks, taking nolva with that..pct would be clomid. But could someone answer the q about test c and test e? Like would the gains be roughly the same..As far as I have read the only diff is the area they come from (as in US and Europe) because I can get the test c way cheaper. Also just a broad q but lets say I gain 25-30lbs doing this cycle...How much muscle would be expected to be lost after the cycle...I know this has A LOT to do with pct and diet but I am just curious if I gain around 30 lbs (which will be a combo of fat/muscle and water) , how much would be lost afterwards? Also what are your thoughts on taking sus instead of test e or c? Thanks again guys

You said all the "sites" you've been on. Are these legit web "sites". Have your got them verified with a Vet/Mod before purchasing? Most web sites are over priced any way.

For a first cycle keep to a single estered Test, such as, Test Enanthate or Cypionate . Injections bi-weekly. Taking Sust for a first cycle will mean EOD injections. This is not a good choice for the in-experienced IMO. It will also be easier to keep blood levels more stable with a single estered Test. Thus, keeping sides to a minimum.

**sublime_4_life** · 08-25-2005, 11:08 AM

well the two main sites I have known two different friends that have bought from them and recieved the legit products...as for checking with the vets..no i havent actually..Thought that was allowed or something..I had been trying to hint at someone telling me a good site to order from but I know that is not allowed...I suppose a PM could never hurt. And ok so test c and e both work equally thats good then...As for sus, ok well i will back off of that then eventhough I am sure I can handle the mult sticks but i am down for less side effects so test it is

**The Baron** · 08-25-2005, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by sublime_4_life

thanks again for the replies guys...Well I wish i could find that 10ml vial Baron but all the sites I have been to only sell the doses in the 250ml vials...Sucks to be me I guess because those run for like 15 bucks a pop...thats why my prices were so high...As for the being tested thing, i highly doubt I will so im not stressin about that. So yea I am going to try the test e 500mg EW for 12 weeks, taking nolva with that..pct would be clomid. But could someone answer the q about test c and test e? Like would the gains be roughly the same..As far as I have read the only diff is the area they come from (as in US and Europe) because I can get the test c way cheaper. Also just a broad q but lets say I gain 25-30lbs doing this cycle...How much muscle would be expected to be lost after the cycle...I know this has A LOT to do with pct and diet but I am just curious if I gain around 30 lbs (which will be a combo of fat/muscle and water) , how much would be lost afterwards? Also what are your thoughts on taking sus instead of test e or c? Thanks again guys

deca which if it is genuine brand name, will often be in a 2cc vial.

Your losses will be up to you. Mostly they will depend on your diet. If you are eating enough to gain naturally, and you increase that by about 30%, you will gain on cycle and keep a reasonable amount of that. If you are not eating enough to gain naturally (The test for this is to see if you are gaining naturally or not... if not, then you are not eating enough to gain naturally, obviously. There are not weasel-outs or excuses) then you will eventually drop right back nearly to your pre-cycle weight. Nobody can even make a very good guess, because nobody here sees you or watches you eat and train. I would be surprised to see you gain 30 lbs. I would be more surprised for you to keep 20. If you accomplish either of those objectives, you will have done quite well indeed. If I were to gain and keep 10 lbs of actual lean mass from that cycle, without a large fat penalty, I would be quite satisfied.

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**sublime_4_life** · 08-25-2005, 01:19 PM

ok my bad first off...I used the wrong term there...The sites i have been on sell 1ml AMPs(250mg/ml) manuf. by norma for 14 euro...which is still a ripoff right? I havent seen them any cheaper than this nor have I found them in the 10 ml vials to get the bulk rate if you want to call it that...I see you dont accept PMs about this subject so I cant tell you what sites I am looking at but thats what I am dealing with....

As for the other part of the answer you gave me...Ok well I am eating enough to gain naturally...I have put on about 20-25 lbs since in the last 6 months...Going for about 1-1 1/2 lbs a week... About gaining 30lbs I just hear a lot of people saying that as a rough estimate...which I am sure that changes with everyone...So 10lbs of LBM is reasonable after a 12week cycle? Wow thats pretty good and the answer i was looking for...As for my diet...well I am sure to get at least 200 g/p and try to keep my carbs up around 350 or so...I am not able to cook my own food so i have to stick with what is available but I hardly eat junk (although sometimes the surplus in cals is a good thing) and usually stick with fish, boneless skinless chickn breasts and for carbs its pasta, whole wheat bread etc...

also with the test e or c route will water weight and bloating be less than that of deca /dbol ? Or does test blow you up too?
Thanks again

**Captain_test** · 08-25-2005, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by sublime_4_life

...i could see that for under 100 bucks but for a 12 week cycle i would need 2btls/week to get 500mg So I would need 24 total right?

**sublime_4_life** · 08-25-2005, 01:46 PM

alright guy I already said i used the wrong word...instead of btl use amp...Now is it so funny? 2amps at 250mg = 500/week. 12 weeks times 2 amps = 24...Magic eh?