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A friend of mine (around 6" 225lbs 7-8% bf) did a cycle recently (hes done alot of low dose cycles) of dbol 15mg ED for 5-6 weeks NO CLOMID NO NOLVAS nothing , and put on 10lbs muscle (maybe a little water)... and kept it all (i witnessed this myself) so it is hardly nessesary for one to use 35mgs and 500mgs of test etc.
What are your thoughts?
* i also know guys who have had GREAT results on 250mg test and 200mg deca of 20lbs not 1st cycle .....
I suspect that there's a mentality of "more is always better" that permenates the bodybuilding community. Well, more doesn't always necessarily mean better when it comes to AS. I believe that beyond a certain point, any excess AS don't add mass but do up the side effects.
If TNT sees this he will certainly have something to add, he's a proponant of As in moderation as well.
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interesting, and I also see the same thing sometimes.
friend of mine had a bit of dbol and this is what he did...
took 20mgs for two weeks then 15mgs for two weeks.
the first two weeks he gained ATLEAST 10 pounds (yes, some water)
then 5 pounds a week after that when taking 15mgs, which equals about 20 pounds (with water weight).
although I'll say this guy wasn't a hard gainer in general. btw - no clomid or anything post cycle and Im pretty sure he maintained it with creatine.
i have a bro who just finished his third cycle and he used 200mg enthate,100mg decaeach week and 25mg d-bol first 20 days.
he gained an amazing 36lbs. and has kept 28 of it.
lucky fuck
if thats not BS, then thats fucking INSANE!!!!Quote:
Originally posted by physique
i have a bro who just finished his third cycle and he used 200mg enthate,100mg decaeach week and 25mg d-bol first 20 days.
he gained an amazing 36lbs. and has kept 28 of it.
lucky fuck
i'm not shittin u guys!! i know for a fact!! because i did all the shots for him. the guy is so fucking scared of needles he almost passes out every shot.
here's the diet he used
meal1 6:00am 4oz steak,4eggs,2pieces wholewheat toast, small bowl oatmeal, one banana, one scoop nlarge with 250ml milk, vitamins
snack 7:30am 1scoop nlarge with 250ml milk
meal2 9:00am 4eggs,9oz potato,banana, 1scoop nlarge with milk
snack 10:30am 1scoop nlarge with milk
meal3 noon 4oz chicken breast,1cup rice, 1cup corn, 1scoop nlarge with milk
snack 1:30 1scoop nlarge with milk
meal4 4oz 3:00 steak, 7oz potato 1scoop nlarge with milk
snack 3:30 before training apple
right after training 4scoops nlarge in water
meal5 5:30 5oz ground beef,1cup rice, 1cup corn
snack 7:00 2scoops protein powder
meal6 8:30 4drumsticks or 5oz chicken breast with 1cup raw carrots
meal7 before bed 2scoops protein powder, 1bowl salad
he does this monday -saturday. then on sunday he ate whatever he wanted.
he is just putting his second cycle together right now.
looks like omni250mg week with 200mg eq and he wants to try a-bombs @25mg/day for 3weeks.
im soo glad someone finally started a thread like this... If I ever cycle it won't have more than 200-250 mg/week of total AAS... My goals aren't that high and I want to run the absolute minimum dose for those goals. I know ppl that would do really weak cycles (with no clomid, no anti-e's) and would keep everything... all without knowing much about diet or optimal training either.
No, everyone doesn't have the same goals, and yes some ppl will prolly require different amounts for a similiar goal.. but why start your first cycle with 500mg/wk when you don't have a clue how you would react to a much lower dose?... JMO :)
but why start your first cycle with 500mg/wk when you don't have a clue how you would react to a much lower dose?
I completely agree. Everyone is different and I feel especially if you are youger and doing a cycle, then you dont need as much since your test levels are higher then older men
So I dont quite understand what you guys are saying, are you saying that for a first cycle ppl should do more of 200 mg of eq/deca, and more of 250 test rather than 500?
Or are you just saying ppl are different?
Not speeking for everyone, but i feel that it is sometimes an advantiage to try with an effective yet lower dose say 300mg of EQ as opposed to 600md/week since a first time user may get excellent results at that dose with little or no side effects. I also believe if a 21yr old is doing a cycle he should start lower since his natural test production is high anyways
I've been reading Anabolics 2002, all the cycles that he recommends are low dose test from 200mg-250mg of test, except for Sust. at 500mg (probably because of the four esters), EQ 250mg, Deca 200mg-300mg, Tren. 150mg-225mg a week.
I would agree too that as a frist cycle it would probably be better to under the 500mg per week dose. I was thinking of going with 250mg of test and 200mg of EQ every four or five days, for my frist cycle.
JohnnyB
im very suspicious that a lot of these people that
get great results off a low dose havent hit their genetic
potential before AS. or havent been serious about their trianing
for example my bro just finished his first cycle of dbol; at check this out 20 mgs for 4weeks, and got 10lbs and has yet to loose anything w/out the use of clomid but he hadnt trained for two years either.
me on the other and well never mind im in a good mood and by talking about it i will get into a bad one-later
I dont agree with the fact that young ppl dont need as much test because they are producing so much as it is , if you are taking 500mg or even 250mg of test your natural production is going to shut down temporarily wether you are 18 or 35 so why would younger ppl get better gains than older ppl on lower doses? JMO
Ok i see what your saying, and dont get me wrong people use high doses because that is what one needs for them to work to their full potential, however, i believe depending on you genetics, and if you grow easier then most people because of your genetics, lower doses would probably be effective for these situations.
I've never done a cycle before but rationally it makes sense what most here are saying. I mean when you first take a drug, it just doesn't seem logical to take it even at a moderate dosage really, until you know how it will effect your body. Also I don't understand why some people, for their first cycle, throw 4 different AAS's in the stack. If something goes wrong they will have no idea what cause the reaction, hence they will gain no knowledge about their body.
Some say your first cycle is the best so you need to use a lot, but the only reason I see why your first cycle would be your best is because as you gain muscle, it's harder to put on more. Doesn't seem like it actually has anything to do with the fact that it is your first cycle, it has to do moreso with the fact that come your second cycle you are 20, 30 pounds heavier, so it's harder to gain muscle since you are closer to your genetic potential or past it even more.
I sort of look at it like alcohol. First time you drank was it a good idea to go out and drink 20 beers? Again I have never done a cycle, but logically it just makes sense to start on the low end of dosages, and keep it simple. If I have a stack going with 4 different drugs and I start peeing blood or I get bitch tits, I won't know which drug did it, so I won't know which to avoid in the future. Although it can be narrowed down slightly because certain drugs are known for certain side effects, but you won't be very sure.
Although I have no experience or anything with steroids, and I'm sure some might bring that up, it's a drug, and is like any other drug. You should start slowly to see how you react and then if you are fine, maybe increase it a bit. But like people are saying, why do 500mg/test when you can get away with 300mg and still get good results. Sure the 500mg might be a bit better but as we all know the chances for side effects are higher as well.
I guess it really depends on your goals though. If you want to be a mammoth and your diet and routine is sound, then maybe 500mg is best for you. But even still I would say at least for the first cycle to keep it on the low side, as you have no idea how you will be effected physically and, maybe even more importantly, mentally.
I have read many pages on this site now and it appears that for first timers Cycles that include Winny, Primo, Anavar etc.... are favoured...why? as someone who academically studies AAS (Geek) i know that Winny is one of the most dangerous steroids to use! Anavar isn't to be considered at all.
A good stack for a first timer should be labelled an "introduction stack" let your body adapt adn for this purpose only Test Enanthate should be used. For a clean user this is an excellent choice due to not only the introduction of TEST into the body but also the increase in Pulsatile Growth hormone, IGF-1 which TEST is famous for, all noted the same at 250mgs 6-8 days and 500mgs, no increase, increases only occured at 600mgs a week.
So the introduction of 250MGS a week TEST ENANTHATE is best, increses in TEST, PULSTILE GROWTH HORMONE,IGF-1 all make for a potent mixture, good gains that can be kept with the use of Clomid and TRIBBULUS.
Use PRIMOTESTON, 250MGS 1cc, SCHERING, Test Enanthate. About $13 from pharma Europe.
~~~~~~~why not be BIG and HEALTHY~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I wouldn't see why you would dismiss anavar, it's one of the safest if not the safest AAS. Also introducing test in a first cycle might not be a good idea if the person is prone to hairloss and other androgenic side effects. It all depends on your goals. If anyone is looking to pack on some serious pounds though obviously test makes sense.
I am curious why you would say test enan over test prop? Test prop means more injections but lower chance of side effects (less water retention, lower chances of gyno). Plus it seems you can get better results with prop at lower dosages than other tests at the same dosages, at least from my reading of testimonials of different cycles.