Beginner Needs Help

**alessib** · 04-26-2002, 07:10 PM

ME: 26 yrs old, 5' ll", 185 lbs, avg/midlow body fat.

GOALS: 15-20 pounds of lean muscle with as few side effects as possible and keep my gains!.

LOOKING INTO: cycle #7 on http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/steroid-cycles.asp (300mg primo, 400mg deca , 150mg Winny - 8wks).
I liked the idea of a test free cycle cuz I have natrually thinning hair and bad skin and dont want watery muscles.

QUESTIONS:
1. is the dosaging in this cycle ok for a beginner. Ive been doing alot of reasearch and there seems to be alot of variation on what a beginner really needs to get results. cycle #7 is a high dosage compared to other similar cycles ive read about?

2. Is deca dick a prob w/this dosaging? i was thinking of droping the winny (cuz of price) and taking a weak oral test (andriol ) instead to help out downstairs. Is that going to help? or is it unessecarry?

3. do i need to taper (up or down) w/the deca and/or primo?

Thanx guys!

**cnyce89** · 04-26-2002, 07:35 PM

id throw in some test IMO, your gonna need to counter act the deca .esp with the hig dosages..If you keep the winny i nthere that will work to help the deca dick( so i hear)
If yuour afraid of holding water, then run some arimidex along with everything.. That should keep that to a minimal.
The dosages seem alright, i think the winny comes out to around 50 mg EOD? am i correct? Are you running this later in the cycle? or at the begining?
No need to tapper stay at a constant level....

**cnyce89** · 04-26-2002, 07:39 PM

Or why not run just a simple.
Test Prop, EQ, winny
cycle?

Try this.

wk1-10
Test prop 50 mg ED or 100 mg EOD
400 mg of EQ
wk 6-10
50 mg winny ED

With this you wont hold much water, the prop is good like that,
The EQ has MINIMAL sides,
and the winny will harder you up and add some lean mass

sounds like a better cycle to me

**03733+$** · 04-27-2002, 01:09 PM

DEFINATLY AGREE !!! GOOD ADVISE !!!!!

**Ajax** · 04-28-2002, 06:06 AM

Winny 150mg--what do you mean? 150mg/day or 50mg x 3 times a week?

8 weeks of winny is a long time; it's a 17AA steroids so it is liver toxic. maybe do 50mg of winny every day for the last 4 weeks?

The cycle looks good though. I think Testosterone would be a good addition, if you added 100-00mg/week you would be adding just a bit more than your natural testosterone production so I would think it would not be too harsh. (That's just an opinion, not a scientific fact, ming you!)

I have heard of soem guys using Proviron to keep sex drive up during test-less cycles. I have never used it for that, but it does work to get your motor running when you are coming off a cycle!

Good luck!

**Soldier225** · 04-28-2002, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by cnyce89
Or why not run just a simple.
Test Prop, EQ, winny
cycle?

Try this.

wk1-10
Test prop 50 mg ED or 100 mg EOD
400 mg of EQ
wk 6-10
50 mg winny ED

With this you wont hold much water, the prop is good like that,
The EQ has MINIMAL sides,
and the winny will harder you up and add some lean mass

sounds like a better cycle to me

Great beginner cycle, cnyce89.

I'd hit the test prop at 75mg ED and be sure to have novaldex on hand just in case and/or run arimidex throughout.

Soldier225

**alessib** · 04-28-2002, 10:19 AM

Test Prop, EQ, winny probalby is a better cycle as far as mass increase.
my problem is ....

1. the side effects of the prop. given my predispositions
2. loosing more after the cycle cuz of the prop than with the deca /primo/winny cycle
3. I also here alot about how test shouldnt be /or isnt needed for a beginner

Ajax...good point...yeah i was thinking the same 50mg tabs ED for last 4 weeks.... also would you start the deca and prop both a wks 1-8?

I really appreciate the comments guys

**alessib** · 04-28-2002, 10:23 AM

im willing to sacrifice a few pounds in a cycle for quality muscle that stays...
15 solid pounds would be awsome in my case...also i could care less about seeing the results right away in the first few weeks as long as i get to my goal by the end of the cycle

**Ajax** · 04-30-2002, 12:22 AM

Do a search on 'hairloss' and test' or 'testosterone ' to get a better idea on hairloss issues. There is a lot of stuff here in the archives. I can't help there; my hair just grows & grows & never fals out! (Knock on wood!)

Unless you are pretty ripped already (and it sounds like you stil have a bit of BF from your original post) and 'cuz it's your first cycle and are probably not real comfortable with injecting yourself; I might recommend Test. cyiopnate or Enathate; you could do 200mg-250/week and 'suffer' only one injection. If you use Test. Prop you would have to do more injections and probably take more test. overall; it lasts only 48 hours in your system so if you did 100mg/EOD (every other day) you would be doing 350mg/week of testosterone. You might hold more water from Cyp.En., but unless you are under 10% bodyfat it won't be that noticeable. Proviron (or Arimidex ) would help with water retention as well.

I don't think that Test. is an absolute necessity. (Though it's not a bad idea!) People do do Deca /EQ cycles and get good results. (Deca/EQ are also good for keeping gains.)

Nobody mentioned Andriol in any of the posts, so I'll say it: the consensus is that it has poor results. Kaz (the board member) used it and said it made for good workouts (energy, agresiveness) but did little or nothing for gains. (Search on Andriol, there are a lot of posts.)

Keep reading and tweaking your cycle. You seem to have a good head for balancing a wide variety of pros & cons, so I am sure you will craft a good cycle--and there are lots of people here who will give you lots of help!

**alessib** · 04-30-2002, 09:02 PM

ajax. from what ive been reading the last few days alot of what you said makes a whole lot of sense. you know your stuff.
Thanks for the info.

p.s still havnt made up my mind but im working on it