Who frontloads, who doesn't, who thinks it's lame/retired?

**Two4the$$** · 09-25-2005, 10:53 PM

Title says it all. Please vote. If you have a negative opinion of frontloading... please state why. For the most part, you can read my detailed opinion on it

Frontloading motives and benefits explained.

And secondly, I'm talking primarily of Testosterone with long half life esters, or things that you have already tested your sensitivity to.

**Unoid** · 09-25-2005, 10:56 PM

why would you not frontload? its done for a purpose and YES is acomplishes that purpose lol.

**topvega** · 09-25-2005, 11:01 PM

i m not against it. just haven't done it myself. after reading your thread i wldn't mind giving it a try and see how it compares to not frontloading or kickstarting with an oral...

**testosterona** · 09-25-2005, 11:05 PM

i just finished my first wk of frontloaded test e. up 5lbs of water, so i'd say im for it. we''ll see what happens

**Pinnacle** · 09-25-2005, 11:05 PM

Frontloading Test never worked for me....BUT after all the hype you've been giving it,I decided to frontload EQ.Which I started last week.I frontloaded 1600 mgs,and will do the same this week as well.It better work or I'll hunt you down and shoot you Truman!

~Pinnacle~

**topvega** · 09-25-2005, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

Frontloading Test never worked for me....BUT after all the hype you've been giving it,I decided to frontload EQ.Which I started last week.I frontloaded 1600 mgs,and will do the same this week as well.It better work or I'll hunt you down and shoot you Truman!

~Pinnacle~

**eGGz** · 09-25-2005, 11:07 PM

In theory frontloading makes sense. In practice I'm not entirely convinced it makes a measurable difference. I've frontloaded the last two cycles and I cannot honestly say that I noticed the difference. It seems that for me the longer esters take about the same time to build up to their effective levels even with the frontload. YMMV.

**Two4the$$** · 09-25-2005, 11:08 PM

Hey, once you decide how much you want to take per week, why wait 5 weeks getting up to it?

Up 5 pounds of water? Up the nolvadex - or use an AI. You might be sensitive to estrogen. I don't think I am ... although PCT made me a little sensitive at times. lol.

**Two4the$$** · 09-25-2005, 11:09 PM

Oh, and you're gonna hunt down a guy who was on his SRT and tied or SET every range's record he ever fired a gun on? :-) I'll be here!

(I know you're kidding, I am too! :-) )

I can't WAIT to do my next cycle frontloaded! I am chomping at the bit!

**Two4the$$** · 09-25-2005, 11:11 PM

well, kidding about the threat - not my accuracy or accolades. USMC here baby! :-)

**Pinnacle** · 09-25-2005, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Oh, and you're gonna hunt down a guy who was on his SRT and tied or SET every range's record he ever fired a gun on? :-) I'll be here!

(I know you're kidding, I am too! :-) )

I can't WAIT to do my next cycle frontloaded! I am chomping at the bit!

So in theory,by the numbers I have posted,when should the EQ be at the 800 mg level?

~Pinnacle~

**Two4the$$** · 09-25-2005, 11:17 PM

By the end of week two... but I've heard that over 700mg didn't really change what eq does... but that less than 600mg was unimpressive. How much do you weigh and what BF%? I figure if you look roughly to that range for a 200 pound guy who's rather lean, and multiply by the coefficient of your respective weight... you'll be right in the mix of enough to do the job and not wasting any $$.

**Pinnacle** · 09-25-2005, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

By the end of week two... but I've heard that over 700mg didn't really change what eq does... but that less than 600mg was unimpressive. How much do you weigh and what BF%? I figure if you look roughly to that range for a 200 pound guy who's rather lean, and multiply by the coefficient of your respective weight... you'll be right in the mix of enough to do the job and not wasting any $$.

218 lbs..6.5% BF...price isn't an issue.I made 175 mls @ 400 mg/ml..so I'm all set.

~Pinnacle~

**testosterona** · 09-25-2005, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

218 lbs..6.5% BF...price isn't an issue.I made 175 mls @ 400 mg/ml..so I'm all set.

~Pinnacle~

i don't even know this guy and he's my freakin hero

easy on that does pinn, you don't want to run out

**abstrack** · 09-25-2005, 11:35 PM

I dont do it. I think for cycles that are 10-12 weeks it might be better, but if you run gear all year long then I dont think there is a need to front load. I've done it before and see no real benefit to doing it.

I would rather run a consistent dose for 2 weeks longer then doubling up in the beginning of my cycle.

If I was to get something into my blood system faster I will use an oral or a fast acting ester.

Just my .02

**Pinnacle** · 09-25-2005, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by abstrack

I dont do it. I think for cycles that are 10-12 weeks it might be better, but if you run gear all year long then I dont think there is a need to front load. I've done it before and see no real benefit to doing it.

I would rather run a consistent dose for 2 weeks longer then doubling up in the beginning of my cycle.

If I was to get something into my blood system faster I will use an oral or a fast acting ester.

Just my .02

I hear you abstrack..I run all year long myself.I just don't want to be running EQ for 20 some weeks.I'm hoping I can get to levels faster and get off the EQ around week 18 or so.

~Pinnacle~

**Pinnacle** · 09-26-2005, 12:19 PM

Any other opinions?

**Two4the$$** · 09-26-2005, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by abstrack

I dont do it. I think for cycles that are 10-12 weeks it might be better, but if you run gear all year long then I dont think there is a need to front load. I've done it before and see no real benefit to doing it.

I would rather run a consistent dose for 2 weeks longer then doubling up in the beginning of my cycle.

If I was to get something into my blood system faster I will use an oral or a fast acting ester.

Just my .02

Understandable - however many people here want to minimize the time on while maximizing the gains during... and it's THOSE people whom I feel frontloading is most suitable for. If you're on year round, it REALLY doesn't make a difference... although I don't really see why you wouldn't do it anyway.

**Mesomorphyl** · 09-26-2005, 01:53 PM

I have front loaded... I will do it again next cycle. I will also use a kickstart like some drol and winny(yes 2-17aa, wanna fight about it?)

**jnx3k** · 09-26-2005, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

Any other opinions?

how bout eq prop? i hear it hurts like a bitch, but it might help you see the results of eq quicker until the reg eq kicks in. just a thought. not sure.

**TCEL300** · 09-26-2005, 02:53 PM

im thinkn of frontloading my test E next week...500 first shoot...250 eod for a week

**shortie** · 09-26-2005, 03:02 PM

Personally I am sold on it, it is science and math-both very pure forms of deduction as far as I am concerned.

**bigtwin** · 09-26-2005, 03:08 PM

I do it with test only.

**TCEL300** · 09-26-2005, 03:18 PM

can you do it with other aas?....i know you cant frontload trenA...but hjow long does that take to kick in???

**shortie** · 09-26-2005, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by TCEL300

can you do it with other aas?....i know you cant frontload trenA...but hjow long does that take to kick in???

Tcel, with a short half life most feel it kick in within a week, to a week and a half.

**TCEL300** · 09-26-2005, 03:24 PM

shortie u r the man...shortie for mod

**Two4the$$** · 09-26-2005, 03:47 PM

First off, I would caution anyone thinking of frontloading Tren unless you've checked your tolerance to it. Second, I don't know of Boldenone Propionate , only Acetate. But being that it's a short ester thes less of a reward to frontloading it. Frontloading is usually for expediting the twice-a-week injectables with 7 day half lifes and the such.

Remember ... you don't increase the speed at which your body starts responding to the drug, you just get it up to the intended volume faster. I think EQ which increases RBC is a great example of something that even when frontloaded, increasing the number of RBC takes a little while, but obviously less time than if you didn't F.L. ...

**Property of Steroid.com** · 09-26-2005, 03:51 PM

I think jump-starting a cycle with orals is more effective....

**Two4the$$** · 09-26-2005, 04:02 PM

HOOKER! :-) Whats up man?

Talk to me about that... tell me why you feel that way. I'm sure you've tried both, and I give your opinoins a TON of weight ...

which orals did you mean, what dosages, what kind of cycles?

Any ideas on how long GH takes to start showing it's lypolitic affects?

**Property of Steroid.com** · 09-26-2005, 04:58 PM

I think that you see weight gain from orals much more quickly (they are passed through your liver and go to work immediately), so the increased weight gives you added leverage (and ergo strength). Then you "solidify" (poor word, I know) those gains when you begin adding more strength and weight from the injectables you are using. Injectables just don't add the weight that orals do, especially with regards to speed and on a mg for mg basis. Just my personal experience and theory....

I mean...you can gain a ton of weight on 1 gram of test, right? But you lower the dose by 1/2 and you'll lose some of it...

Now, if you stop taking the test, and switch to Dbol ( lets say at 50mgs a day, or 350mgs/week...roughly a third of the test dose), what happens? You easily maintain that weight, thats what. I went from 4g/week of test and deca to 40mgs of (Stark) Dbol...and I didn't lose a pound of muscle. I think orals just beat front loading every time, for bulking. And, for cutting, you can use even less, because in a calorie-deficient state, your body is actually more sensitive to androgens. That all leads me to my theory that for a cutting cycle you are depending on low/moderate doses of very specific compounds, while for bulking you are looking at total mgs/week for maximum efficacy.

**chuck89gt5.0** · 09-26-2005, 04:59 PM

I frontloaded my last cycle and will again my next cycle.

**Two4the$$** · 09-26-2005, 05:10 PM

Well Hook, you mentioned Dbol ... how about OT? Do you feel that OT is similar in strength and muscle gains to DBol without the water bloat? I recall you making a comparison to them ... so I was wondering why you mention DBol here if you have such high regard for the efficacy of OT...?

**Two4the$$** · 09-26-2005, 05:10 PM

PS, a guy on here was sick of my face and recommended I change my avatar... I'm just waiting for him to say "mercy" to revert it... maybe this is an improvement from his view tho. lol.

**Two4the$$** · 09-26-2005, 05:15 PM

Personally, with your position (and my regard for your opinions) I will probably frontload and use an oral. I can't see any reason not to frontload ... but including an oral sounds like a great "kick off" too. If the gains from OT and Diana are equivalent, or even if OT is 80% as effective as Diana for this application I'd still use it just for the sake of avoiding that puffed up look - which I hate (although I'm not prone to it) ... but I don't think my disposition would be enough to ward off the estrogenic-ness of DBol . But, I'll probably try both eventually to be able to compare them.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 09-26-2005, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Well Hook, you mentioned Dbol... how about OT? Do you feel that OT is similar in strength and muscle gains to DBol without the water bloat? I recall you making a comparison to them ... so I was wondering why you mention DBol here if you have such high regard for the efficacy of OT...?

I only mention Dbol here because I've done it, and can vouch for it. Tbol should (theoretically) work similarly, but you probably won't gain as much weight because its a non-aromatizing androgen, and thus your rapid strength/weight increases may not be as rapid...

**Two4the$$** · 09-26-2005, 05:26 PM

I know I know… this is a total newbie type question… but I’m burning to find out your opinion…

Well, based on your knowledge ... what would you speculate the percentage of weight gained on OT would be relative to an identical cycle/diet/regiment of DBol would be 2 months after cessation... That way I know what gains are being forfeited to forego the water retentive DBol...

**TheMudMan** · 09-26-2005, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by hooker

I think that you see weight gain from orals much more quickly (they are passed through your liver and go to work immediately), so the increased weight gives you added leverage (and ergo strength). Then you "solidify" (poor word, I know) those gains when you begin adding more strength and weight from the injectables you are using. Injectables just don't add the weight that orals do, especially with regards to speed and on a mg for mg basis. Just my personal experience and theory....

I mean...you can gain a ton of weight on 1 gram of test, right? But you lower the dose by 1/2 and you'll lose some of it...

Now, if you stop taking the test, and switch to Dbol ( lets say at 50mgs a day, or 350mgs/week...roughly a third of the test dose), what happens? You easily maintain that weight, thats what. I went from 4g/week of test and deca to 40mgs of (Stark) Dbol...and I didn't lose a pound of muscle. I think orals just beat front loading every time, for bulking. And, for cutting, you can use even less, because in a calorie-deficient state, your body is actually more sensitive to androgens. That all leads me to my theory that for a cutting cycle you are depending on low/moderate doses of very specific compounds, while for bulking you are looking at total mgs/week for maximum efficacy.

Agreed......... also I feel frontloading increases sides......... I would rather use an oral to jump start and actually see weight increase both in mass and in strength then wait for the long esters to kick in.

I also like jump starting a cycle with Prop. The effects aren't as fast as when using an oral like drol or dbol but it works.

**Two4the$$** · 09-26-2005, 05:31 PM

How did you frontload that caused sides? What dose were you targeting?

**Pinnacle** · 09-26-2005, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

Remember ... you don't increase the speed at which your body starts responding to the drug, you just get it up to the intended volume faster.

So what's the point of bringing it up to levels early on if the gear isn't going to work sooner?

~Pinnacle~

**JD5096** · 09-26-2005, 05:38 PM

I love front loading, I actually front loaded this cycle 1 gram first shot(monday) 500mgs second shot (thursday). 2nd week I continued at 500 mg a week. I felt effects the 3rd day.