Keeping Your Gains

**bullshifter** · 09-18-2005, 06:08 AM

Hey everyone,

Just want to start by saying I just joined the board and have been reading anything and everything to get educated on the subject of steroid use . Thanks to everyone who posts, because it gives me the information I need to know.

To my question, do you need to keep doing cycles to keep gains you have already made?

Also, just another question if you can also answer, what is the best muscle building steroid that can help with fat loss (not necessary) that has the lowest side effects? I know I am asking alot there

I ask this because I want to improve in size but don't want to mess myself up health wise, I want to do it as smart as possible. I've heard about how Steroids messes you up and slowly kills you, etc. Not sure how true that all is. If you can shed some light on this that would be great. Again, thanks to all who post on here to share your knowledge and experience, I appreciate it!

**Iceman911** · 09-18-2005, 06:26 AM

What are your stats? age, weight, experience......ect. FYI, a good diet imo is a better way to lose fat along with cardio not roids especially low side effect ones.

**Iceman911** · 09-18-2005, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by bullshifter

Hey everyone,

Just want to start by saying I just joined the board and have been reading anything and everything to get educated on the subject of steroid use . Thanks to everyone who posts, because it gives me the information I need to know.Welcome to the board. You can learn alot here.

To my question, do you need to keep doing cycles to keep gains you have already made?No. Just keep your diet and training in check. You will always lose some gains post cycle.
Also, just another question if you can also answer, what is the best muscle building steroid that can help with fat loss (not necessary) that has the lowest side effects?If this is your fist cycle just run test. I know I am asking alot there

I ask this because I want to improve in size but don't want to mess myself up health wise, I want to do it as smart as possible. Just do your research on this site and you can learn everything you need to know to do it right.I've heard about how Steroids messes you up and slowly kills you, etc. Not sure how true that all is. Not true, especially if done properly. Not saying it can't kill you, but if done right no problems.If you can shed some light on this that would be great. Again, thanks to all who post on here to share your knowledge and experience, I appreciate it!

Good luck

**bullshifter** · 09-18-2005, 07:55 AM

I don't have any experience, that's why I came to the board to research. I am 20 years old, 6'4 and 270 (I would like to lose 60 lbs. or so and build lean muscle mass. I agree that dieting is probably the best way to go for losing fat, that's why in my first post I said that a fat burning steroid wasn't completely necessary. What is the best steroid with the lowest side effects to build muscle and to keep the gains?

Thanks.

**SwoleCat** · 09-18-2005, 07:58 AM

There are no steroids that "burn fat". Diet and cardio do.

I'd suggest researching a LOT here for many days/weeks and getting educated. I can tell by your questions that you think AAS are miracle drugs.

Far from the case, VERY far from the case.

~SC~

**bullshifter** · 09-18-2005, 08:07 AM

Hi,

Thanks for your post. I do not think AAS are miracle drugs at all. I realize there aren't steroids that burn fat but there are some that assist in the process. Again, I appreciate your post, but I alrady said I was not experienced in this, so please don't treat me as thought I said I was.

I am open to all advice, and trust me, I am researching, I don't plan on making any impulse decisions. My biggest questions are what is the best for building muscle and keeping gains and with the lowest side effects?, and do you need to keep doing cycles to maintain your gains (I also know hard workouts are apart of the formula)?

I appreciate all information that is provided to me.

**SEBASTOP** · 09-18-2005, 09:14 AM

Hi, Bullshifter.
And welcome to this forum. I don't have the answer to your qusetion, but I am adding my two cents, because I would like to know myself.

I am also new to this forum and have seen these type of responses time an time again. They put you down, tell you to do research (like we are on this forum to listen to their "humor") and ridicule you without adding an ounce of knowledge to the question being articulated.

Then, after you tell them what color eyes your Mom has, they give you wrong advice half the time. I am no expert but I do lots of research and have three doctors that I consult. Testosterone is one of the reasons men have a lower BF content than women, so to say that no steroid will reduce body fat is incorrect. Hang in there, bro.

**tawweiliu** · 09-18-2005, 09:18 AM

Bullshifter

I don't know whats good or not but all this will help you burn fat with cardio and dieting. I will rate them for you! out of 10

Clenbuterol ,.5 Ephedrine 6 Insulin 5 Growth Hormone 8

Nolvadex 3 Parabolan 2 all off this is Fat Burning. Hope this helps.

**CapnZ** · 09-18-2005, 09:34 AM

If you have not done a cycle before - I would research a test only cycle for the 1st time out. test e or test c at 400 - 500 mg / week for 12 weeks and make sure you understand how and what to use for PCT. You will make good gains on this cycle if you work hard and keep your diet clean and packed with good protein / complex carb sources. Keeping your gains post cycle depends on good pct and diet and workout routines. With a good program you'll lose 20 - 25% but keep the rest. If I were you I'd cut your fat first with diet and a good cardio program before considering a cycle. It will be easier to build lean body mass if you are not already carrying excess fat. good luck.

**SoulCard** · 09-18-2005, 10:42 AM

bullshifter and sebastop...
please understand the all of us started out as a newbie with little or no knowledge.
please also understand that when people like swolecat (who has been a member for 3 years and has almost 18,000 posts here alone and clearly knows what the hell he is talking about) become a little sarcastic from time to time it is not personal...this forum has SOOO much info in it, if a newbie would read the stickys and threads in the diet,supplement, and steroid section, they would have 90% of their questions answered...no one is putting you down for not knowing something, just for asking a question that has been answered hundreds of time and it is something you could find by using that little search button at the top of the page
i hate cardio, but it is necessary to burn fat
i hate eatin a clean diet, but it is necessary because food is the best steroid...everything else is just a little bit of a help...
please jus read and learn boys

**mranak** · 09-18-2005, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by CapnZ

If you have not done a cycle before - I would research a test only cycle for the 1st time out. test e or test c at 400 - 500 mg / week for 12 weeks.

A cycle isn't appropriate for this guy at all.

Diet and cardio and the fat will start to fall off. Eat lots of protein (at least 300grams+/day) in order to maintain as much muscle as possible.

**bullshifter** · 09-18-2005, 05:31 PM

Thanks to everyone who has responded I appreciate it. I think some of you still have the idea I am looking for a steroid to burn fat, that's not it. I agree with everyone who says diet and cardio is the way to make this happen.

As for the steroids , I wasn't looking to go crazy on them, didn't want to continually use them, just to build some decent size on to me (after I have lost some weight). So my main question was, 1. What is the safest steroid with the least side effect posible that promotes muscle gain as well as maintaining? and 2. Is a hard workout enough to keep most of your gains instead of continually doing cycles as well?

Thanks again to all those who reply, your time is appreciated. And SEBASTOP, thanks for your comments bro, I agree with most of what you said, especially when it comes to that certain memebr, I have seen his comments in other threads, so I say this again, I do not claim to be an expert, I'm definitely a newbie and I'm just trying to gain all the knowledge I can by reading the forums and posting this thread.

**big&tall** · 09-18-2005, 05:59 PM

take the test only rought first time out and do your home work. gook luck

**Will_1** · 09-18-2005, 06:08 PM

bullshifter

Checkout: http://www.vizualxcellence.com/

I truly wish I had done this earlier. I just started and have already lost a considerable amount of weight and I feel phenominal.

**ODC0717** · 09-18-2005, 06:12 PM

stick to the diet and training forums for a while bro. you'd need to build a good base before you hit up the bottle. regardless of what others will tell you, there is no AAS that burns fat. diet and cardio do that, like SC said previously.

**bullshifter** · 09-18-2005, 06:27 PM

thanks for the info.

I still have not had the question answered, what's the best steroid for building muscle with the least side effects (this being the most important)? I have read that Deca probably best fits this description, would that be accurate?

**ODC0717** · 09-18-2005, 06:31 PM

no. all AAS shut you down. if there's no test your little buddy will be dormant for the duration of the cycle, and possibly a while after if you don't do PCT. this is why most people recommend to use a single ester test, like enanthate or cypionate . if you take deca alone without test you will be shut down. all nandrolones shut you down hard, this holds true for trenbolone and it's esters, as trenbolone is a derivative or nandrolone .

**bullshifter** · 09-18-2005, 06:33 PM

I didn't mean taking deca alone but definitely thanks for the info. I don't plan on taking any of this right away, but what would you take with deca and for PCT?

Thanks.

**SoulCard** · 09-18-2005, 06:37 PM

depends on what sides you are referring to...less acne, maybe...shut down, absolutely but it may have less gyno type sides for some people...

**bullshifter** · 09-18-2005, 06:42 PM

Can somebody clarify exactly what gyno is, thanks.

**mranak** · 09-18-2005, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by bullshifter

Can somebody clarify exactly what gyno is, thanks.

Enlargement of the mammary glands. Breasts.

**Dalton5** · 09-18-2005, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by bullshifter

Can somebody clarify exactly what gyno is, thanks.

-Listen to what their sayin man, to burn fat....DIET & CARDIO
-As far as stuff to help you burn fat your not lookin for steroids , your lookin for things like ephedra...speeds up your metabolism and if abused will ruin your heart....be careful
-Now with a question like "what is gyno" it is clear that you havent taken the advice given and done some research.....im not flaming you bro im just sayin this is fundemental stuff that is all over this board and shouldnt be too hard to figure out

**bullshifter** · 09-18-2005, 09:20 PM

I will say this again, because I'm not sure if everyone is reading any other post I have done except the first one to start this thread. I AGREE that steroids aren't good to burn fat, diet and cardio are. My question is, what kind of side effects can I expect if I was to do a cycle with Deca ? Also I hear about the testosterone everyone recommends to take as well, but can you take TESTOSTERONE PROPIONATE ? I ask this because it looks to have the least health side effects. Also if you work out hard continuously after you do a few cycles, do you need to keep doing cycles as well as working out to keep most of your gains or is working out hard enough? If I go on this at some point, I don't want it to be a long term thing.

I apologize for asking so many questions, but when you're new to something you have no choice.

**bullshifter** · 09-18-2005, 09:50 PM

any info on the above would be most apprciated...thanks

**Needle_Newb** · 09-19-2005, 09:02 AM

Test proprionate is not any easier on you than Cypionate or Enanthate . Testosterone is testosterone, your body doesn't interpret it any differently.

For a beginner, go with Enanthate or Cypionate, because you won't need to inject as frequently. 400-500mg a week is all you need, forget Deca for now. Start with one drug and see how you react to it.

For the most part it's probably 200-250mg/ml. So you would inject 1ml twice a week. You'll want to run it for 10-12 weeks. If you want to lose weight, run arimidex (an aromatase inhibitor) or Nolvadex (estrogen blocker) along with the cycle, this will prevent you from putting excessive water weight and help prevent gyno.

Side effects of test come in 2 forms, estrogen related side effects are water bloat, gaining fat, and gyno (the degree of both varies dramattically with the individual) and androgen related (more active subaceaous glands which means very oily skin, possible loss of hair if your predisposed to loosing, more bodily hair growth, acne and aggresion, which may make you more irritable and less patient with people, and possibly cause prostate enlargment)

Other side effects are high blood pressure, a rise in triglycerides and your HDL cholesterol may lower and your LDL cholesterol may rise. These are temporary and when you end your cycle, these sides should normalize. Get regular blood work done. These are for the most part only slightly affected unless you use 17 Alpha-Alkylated orals such as Dianabol . I can't touch those because it drops my HDL to zero. Others aren't disturbed as much.

As someone pointed out, Testosterone is the main reason why men store less bodyfat and suffer less from osteoperosis. However testosterone is also why men in general do not live as long as women and suffer from more cardiac problems. As you can see, "supplementing" with test plays with cholesterol values, raises triglycerides and raises blood pressure. No one knows for sure how this affects us in the long run.

On the 12th week, along with your last shot of test, you should start your PCT, use 5000iu of HCG per week for 2 weeks and take clomid at 100mg per day for 2 weeks then 50mg per day for 2 weeks. Run 20-40mg per day of Nolvadex throught the PCT cycle. This will help kickstart your natural testosterone levels .

HCG comes in 2 vials, one is the compound, the other the solvent. Mix them, shoot 2500iu, store in fridge, shoot remaining 2500iu 4 days later. Repeat.

Make sure you have all you need upfront. Enough syringes, enough test and all everything you need in your PCT stack.

Your diet needs to be spot on. Lots of protein (Milk, egg whites, beans, fish, chicken, lean meats, cottage cheese is great too), complex carbs (whole wheat bread, brown rice and pasta, whole grain products) instead of simple sugars. Get plenty of essential fats, sleep and workout hard. Get at least 3 20-30 minute cardio sessions per week. A proper diet will not only help gain muscle and loose fat, but they might help reduce blood pressure and prevent a total HDL crash and LDL spike that can result from a cycle.

Also, buy some books on the subject, like Anabolics 2005 etc...

You will keep a lot of the gains if done properly, but keep in mind you will not keep it all.

By the way, you could have learned all of this with simple research in the education section, as well as read up on www.steroid.com, read a few books etc... This only covers the basics, you need to learn how to inject properly, where to inject, find where to buy, how to spot fakes etc...

**shortie** · 09-19-2005, 09:18 AM

Bullshifter, the reason no-one can answer you is because they don't have the answer for you. It is going to be different for everyone. I personally have little trouble keeping most of the gains from a Test E/EQ stack. But that is me, I cannot seem to keep shit from a cycle with large quantities of dbol or drol, it just melts away. Not everyone is this way, some guys are going to do great on tren some on test some on eq and so forth. Simply put we are all a little different from each other in our reactions to ceartain compounds and how we adjust to the removal of said compounds, there just is no right answer. Now you said this isn't going to be something you do for a while, good, you sound like a big dude, eating right and workin out you can probably get frickin huge before the gear, then when you are ready, look out! Yes of course do more research on first cycles, but beware the one you pick, despite being reccommended by everyone, just may not yield you great results or even retainable results, then you may have to try something different. That is why I have never met anyone who just did one qualitycycle. I hope that helps.

As far as Swolecat goes, yes he can be sarcastic and short, but read a lot of his posts and you will learn a lot-I ceartainly have. And I should say I don't personally know the man from Adam, this is all my observation and unbiased opinion.

**fanatic** · 09-19-2005, 12:11 PM

An AAS with little water retention would probably yeild to most keepable gains on a consistent basis.

**Tren Bull** · 09-19-2005, 10:49 PM

IMO juice is very good for making you lose fat, not necessarily while on cycle, but afterward. the more muscle you have, the faster your body will burn calories. One very effective method ive used in the past to keep my gains is to use clenbuterol and clomid pct. As far as fat loss goes, ive managed to lose weight FAST by only eating protein powder and raw oatmel mixed with water every 4 hours. If I get hungry in between meal times il eat fruit or preferably vegetables. Seriously bro, if you are very strict about your diet you can acheive amazing results, especially if you've got multiple cycles of gains on you.