Is this enough ancillaries?

**Drummerboy** · 09-29-2005, 07:05 PM

Lol!!!

**deltayall** · 09-29-2005, 08:34 PM

im buying that book just cause of the fact he does so much for this forum... lots of respect

**catlovesfood** · 09-30-2005, 05:46 AM

You guys hijacked my thread!! All I wanted was an answer to my question!

**Drummerboy** · 09-30-2005, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by catlovesfood

Im about to start my 3rd cycle, 20mg/ed dbol for 4 weeks, 500mg/week Test enthenate for 12 weeks, and 400mg/week deca for 10 weeks,

I have 6 bottles of liquid nolvadex , 5 bottles of liqiud femera and 5 bottles of clen and plan to use HCG weeks 10,11,12 at 3000 IU Week.

Am I missing anything? Im trying to make this my best cycle yet.

ok ok quit your whining

Run the deca till week 11. If you are bulking dont take any anti-e's while cycling, unless you get gyno sides (itchy/sore nips). Estrogen is a posotive thing, unless out of control. If you lower it too much, your blood lipids will get messed. Take nolva at first signs of gyno at 20mg ED, and drop to 10 when sides go away, for the rest of the cycle. Anti'e's may hinder your gains so use em when you need em. This cycle may not shut you down to hard, but if you want a spot on PCT, start taking your nolva and HCG 1 week after your last test shot. Take 20mg nolva, and your letro .25mg ED. Take HCG 2000iu day 1, then 1000iu EOD for 14-20 days. It takes my boys about 16 days to be fully grown at this dose.
Continue your nolva/letro for a few more weeks after HCG is done, a month would be prudent. Your asking if you should start the HCG sooner, but it is not needed, and you ending it before the test and deca are run out of your system. This is bad. If you insist on lowering estrogen throughout your cycle to keep down water (i dont, i shed the water fast after anyway) I would recommend L-Dex at .25 ED while cycling. Stop L-dex when you start PCT.

so : week 14-16 (or 17) 1000iu HCG EOD (2000iu first dose)
week 14-20 20mg Nolva ED
week 14-20 .25 Letro ED
week 13-20 clen however you like it (with ketotifen in PCT is good, 2mg ED)

There ya go, enjoy you juice.

**catlovesfood** · 10-01-2005, 05:06 AM

thanks for the info guys!

**Drummerboy** · 10-01-2005, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by catlovesfood

thanks for the info guys!

ahem?

**Two4the$$** · 10-01-2005, 12:01 PM

Drummerboy, he just doesn't know how greatful to be. It's a shame, he must think you're on payroll.

**mranak** · 10-01-2005, 12:24 PM

I say run the hCG at 300 IU every 4-5 days throughout the cycle and stop just prior to PCT. That works well, doesn't desensitize the leydig cells, etc. I really urge you to at least not ever use more than 1000 IU of hCG at a time.

**mranak** · 10-01-2005, 12:29 PM

And hooker, I do respect your knowledge, although I must confess I'm not sold on the hCG during PCT thing. But you've at least motivated me to look into the issue myself and research it myself.

When I said that hCG was suppressive, I basically only meant the negative feedback provided by the testosterone itself. But you pointed out another possible source of negative feedback from the hCG, so thank you for that.

If talked with guys that had testicular atrophy during their cycle and perhaps only one of the two balls popped back after the cycle. This would have been prevented if they had used hCG throughout.

**Two4the$$** · 10-01-2005, 12:38 PM

I think he said that if you HAD to choose to do hCG during your cycle or during PCT, that you'd do it during PCT (as PCT, in the beginning)... however, he also said that if given the option of doing both that it would be preferred moreso. I read a lot of Hookers threads as well as profiles, I've gotten 4 hours of sleep, so I'm not going to read through this whole thread to see if it's this one or a different one he says that in - but whether or not, its what I believe his view to be, unless that was an older version.

Your test levels are a bit high right now mranak? Cause you might want to (in spite the aggression test induces) want to be humble towards one of the most respected knowledge bases the WHOLE internet has to offer - Hooker. Or don't, but if he decides to cut you off from answering your questions you'll regret it. He's totally cool with someone examining his motives, just don't do it too arrogantly would be my suggestion - it probably serves your long-term goals.

Peace out.

**Two4the$$** · 10-01-2005, 12:41 PM

And regarding using more than 1000iu's per day;

there are plenty of guys here who simply feel (and they may already be desensitized) that anything less than 1000-1500iu simply doesn't do ANYTHING for them. So speak for yourself (and me, because I stay below that mark) ... but not everyone.

**mranak** · 10-01-2005, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by TrumanHW

And regarding using more than 1000iu's per day;

there are plenty of guys here who simply feel (and they may already be desensitized) that anything less than 1000-1500iu simply doesn't do ANYTHING for them. So speak for yourself (and me, because I stay below that mark) ... but not everyone.

I've heard from literally hundreds of guys that prevent their balls from atrophying at at little as 250 IU. Dr. John Crisler see the effect of small amounts of hCG in blood tests. I am very certain that 250 IU-500 IU of hCG is not worthless unless the hCG is underdosed or if the guys really have desensitized their leydig cells in the past, which should be extremely rare for somebody doing their first cycle.

**Two4the$$** · 10-01-2005, 01:16 PM

K, to prove you wrong I'm going to start a thread about that...

**Drummerboy** · 10-01-2005, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by mranak

I've heard from literally hundreds of guys that prevent their balls from atrophying at at little as 250 IU. Dr. John Crisler see the effect of small amounts of hCG in blood tests. I am very certain that 250 IU-500 IU of hCG is not worthless unless the hCG is underdosed or if the guys really have desensitized their leydig cells in the past, which should be extremely rare for somebody doing their first cycle.

dont forget what hcg is used for.... fertillity. I wouldnt be so quick to assume that any dose is correct for anyone, and a small maintenance dose could work... but why? The HCG works so fast at 1000 iu EOD for me that i dont need to maintain, just start the HCG at the end of my cycle, and PCT is a snap. I would not want to take nolva throughout the cycle to block HCG's ability to PERMANTENTLY desensitize your testicle. Even though this is more prominent in higher doses, why bother? I can only think of one good reason to take HCG during cycle... it keeps your balls producing natty test, which can only be beneficial on top of your AAS... As for worrying about them shrinking? Oh well. So i dont fill out my underwear as much as when they are full size. My girlfriend can fit them both in her mouth then.

Kidding aside, they are 2 schools of thought that both work, so there really is no argument here... just opinions and preferences.