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  1. #1
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Finally about to start my cycle. :-)

    This is a long list ... but each bit of it has a reason behind it ... any suggestions?

    NPP @ 500mg 1 - 6
    Test-P @ 500mg 1 - 3, and 14 - 15
    Test-E @ 500mg 2 - 13
    DBol @ 30mg 2 - 6 (ED) 30mg
    Tren -A @ 60mg 8 - 15 (ED) ( I will start at 50mg and inch up to a max of 75mg)
    Masteron @ 75mg ,,, perhaps throughout the cycle if it'll be as effective as Letro??


    Ancillaries:

    Letro at .25mg ED through week 15 (unless masteron will be equivalent)
    B6 @ 200mg ED through cycle and PCT
    Dostinex at .75mg EOD
    Milk Thistle
    HCG at 500iu EOD for weeks 6, 9, 12, and 15.
    Clomid 100mg then down to 50mg for PCT
    Nolvadex at 20mg ED from 15 - end of PCT



    Things I will keep tabs on:

    Cholesterol
    Kidneys function
    Liver Enzymes
    Thyroid funtion
    HDL/LDL
    Blood Pressure
    Last edited by Two4the$$; 09-27-2005 at 11:07 AM. Reason: I was off by 1 week on my beginning and ending point for Tren ... I want the NPP to clear out first.

  2. #2
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    Viking_Power is offline Associate Member
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    Looks nice, gl bro.

  3. #3
    JohnnyB's Avatar
    JohnnyB is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    That cycle is to complicated. Why are you starting the enan a week after prop?

    Why are you using prop and d-bol? they're both used to jump start a cycle.

    Why NPP and tren ace? They're both a 19-nor, so you should of picked one and stayed with it

    Why d-bol at week 2 and not 1?

    Why is test enan starting in week 2 and not week one?

    I think that cycle sucks, it's got to many compounds in it, it looks like you're trying to accomplish your goals in one cycle, which will never happen.

    What's your cycle history?

    JohnnyB

  4. #4
    JohnnyB's Avatar
    JohnnyB is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    Bro I'm not trying to bust your balls, I just want to know your reasoning for this cycle. I could think of better ways to run that cycle, without the complications

    JohnnyB

  5. #5
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Not at all Johnny, I know you're a cool dude, and you asked good questions... and I have a reason for each detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyB
    That cycle is to complicated. Why are you starting the enan a week after prop?
    Because I have NPP/Test 100mg of each per cc... It will take a while before the enanthate gets up to the level I want. Honestly, I'm okay with running as high as 750mg per of Test this cycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyb
    Why are you using prop and d-bol? they're both used to jump start a cycle.
    I'm using the prop because it is already blended with the NPP, and I want to use NPP with DBol , because they are supposed to be very synergistic - if there's one compound in the whole mix I felt optional about, it's the dbol, I would be willing to use TBol instead... but I don't think there's a way for me to find out if TBol/Nand is as nice a synergy as DBol/Nand...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyb
    Why NPP and tren ace? They're both a 19-nor, so you should of picked one and stayed with it?

    Why d-bol at week 2 and not 1?
    Yes, they are - and that's why I split them up. I want to use the fast acting version of NPP DURING my DBol ... but I don't want to start my DBol until my NPP hits my goal for active mg. I will not be running the DBol longer than 5 weeks, so I will discontinue both at the same time. Tren I don't want to run longer than 8 weeks ... and I'm looking to do about a 15 week cycle - thus, both will work for my goals and durations split the way they are ... that is unless I get some new information that nullifies my present understanding.


    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyb
    Why is test enan starting in week 2 and not week one?
    Because I don't want to poke myself ED the whole time - during the use of NPP there's no reason NOT to... and I have a 20ml batch of NPP/Prop... which means that will last be about 3 weeks, and I want to start my enanthate either a little earlier or at about 1.5x my goal amount to make up for the lag in the amount of esterified test in my body being stripped of the esters to equal my "target mg per day" value. I have another bottle of NPP which I will use through the duration of my DBol portion...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyb
    I think that cycle sucks, it's got to many compounds in it, it looks like you're trying to accomplish your goals in one cycle, which will never happen.
    I only have one goal with each cycle ... maximize my lean gains in sub-20 week stints (while keeping the risk of sides below an intolerable level). :-)
    Last edited by Two4the$$; 09-27-2005 at 11:09 AM.

  6. #6
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    All I'm trying to say is, "bump!" Lots a views, no comments. Hopefully - someone has an informed opinion to share.... for one, does anyone think Masteron is adequate during this cycle? Or that i'll need to use Letro...? And is there a dose of letro that I can take that will not completely screw my lipid profile?

  7. #7
    SoulCard's Avatar
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    good luck man...i try to keep my cycles as simple as possible so i dont screw it up...if you can keep track of all that gear...enjoy...personally i would trim it down a little and mix up your next cycle with the compounds you didnt use this time...

  8. #8
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Well, it's obviously going to take more attention to detail than say 500mg of Test-E weeks 1 - 15, start clomid 3 weeks after... but I feel confident I can manage this.

    Anyway, more thoughts?

  9. #9
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    lots of stuff going on there.....either way - from the looks of it and reading some of your previous posts i have a feeling you are going to get pretty jacked and i wish you the best of luck dude. wish i was in your shoes

  10. #10
    Pinnacle's Avatar
    Pinnacle is offline AR-Hall of Famer ~ Cocky motherF*cker!
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    Why no front load on the long ester?You are an advocate for front loading,correct?

    IMO the cycle is far to complicated.I think you're reading into compounds a little too much.You could do a much simpler cycle and achieve the same results.But,I can see you want to experiment..so good luck with it.

    ~Pinnacle~

  11. #11
    1REDNECK1 is offline New Member
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    I Have A Question Im Starting A Cycle Of 300mg Decca A Week With 400mg Testcyp And 150 Winstrol For Ten Weeks With A Arimedex .05mg Every Other Day My Question Is I Hurt My Shoulder About 5 Months Ago Will This Help Me Get Back In The Gym Sooner The Doctor Said Like 2 More Months But I Cant Wait That Long

  12. #12
    MuckDog's Avatar
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    new thread for that dude

  13. #13
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    Pinnacle is offline AR-Hall of Famer ~ Cocky motherF*cker!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1REDNECK1
    I Have A Question Im Starting A Cycle Of 300mg Decca A Week With 400mg Testcyp And 150 Winstrol For Ten Weeks With A Arimedex .05mg Every Other Day My Question Is I Hurt My Shoulder About 5 Months Ago Will This Help Me Get Back In The Gym Sooner The Doctor Said Like 2 More Months But I Cant Wait That Long



    Start you're own thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    ~Pinnacle~

  14. #14
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    Keep it simple, I think youve made way too complicated of a cycle IMO. I agree with Pinnacle that you can easily achieve the same results with half as many compounds. According to your profile, youve only ran one cycle before and now you want to throw in 6 compounds, most of which you havent used before?

  15. #15
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Friggin hijackers! At least disguise your MO.

    Anyway, yeah, I am an absolute advocate of frontloading - but I want to use my NPP thats mixed with Prop - if I had them separated, I would use just the NPP and frontload with Test-E, but there's not much of a benefit to doing that ... I want the short half life version of Deca , so ED injections are fine, and the prop will be consistent with that. I will check my test-p values on the roidcalculator.com and supplement to where I should be, perhaps frontloading to a degree, but it will obviously be different since I'm starting with test-p. I'll calculate that out tho. I'm not changing my tune, I just have things in hand that have no need to be wasted. It's only complicated on paper - in reality, it's just a matter of "sticking" ... to a schedule and yourself... at least, in my opinion.

    I guess this is experimental in some regards - but actually, it seems like it could be really effective. Deca/DBol /Test... VERY effective, but can only be run so long because of the 17AA ... but that doesn't mean I want to run a 6 week cycle. Tren -A is rather harsh, so I don't want run that for 15 weeks... and shouldn't be run at the same time as another 19-nor, which is fine, because I'm only interested in the water retentive affects of DBol and NPP as they synergistically benefit one another ... and towards the end of the cycle I'll utilizing all 3 steroid types ... 19nor, test, DHT... and should get pretty ripped up towards the end.

    Still, no one has commented on their experience of using Masteron as their exclusive Anti-E while on 19-nor compounds...

  16. #16
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Okay, yeah, if you want to make it look like 6 compounds you can... but Test-P and Test-E are just ester differences... I just don't see eye to eye with the people that treat them as different.

    Remember ...

    TestP/TestE = 1 compound in my view..
    NPP transitioning to Tren = 1 class present throughout the cycle - even though the name changes.
    Masteron = DHT, cutting, Anti-E, and binds to SHBG - increasing the efficacy of the cycle...

  17. #17
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    I appreciate everyone's participation! If I may make a request: complexity isn't really a concern to me. I can follow a plan.... so long as the logic is sound. Lets get off the complexity issue. As far as mixing in compounds I haven't used before - that really doesn't bother me either. The only time I'm going to have to guess for ambiguous potential side affects is while I'm using NPP and DBol ... as I won't know which one will be the cause of the water retention ... if I have much, which I don't like, but am not particularly prone to... and in the second half, I would think that Tren and Masteron could both or either cause hair loss, but I'm not genetically prone to it, and will reduce the tren dosage if I start losing hair, and stop the tren altogether if that doesn't fix it - of course it [could] be the Masteron, but i'm not going to run 6 individual 1-compound cycles trying to figure my body's reaction.

  18. #18
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Wow, I guess the only contributions I can get are that it's complicated... Bump I guess.

  19. #19
    JohnnyB's Avatar
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    I say start the prop and enan at the same time, but I still don't understand the enan, since you'll be injecting eod with the npp and tren ace anyway. As far as npp and d-bol being senergistic, how are they any more then any other 2 steroids being stacked? I don't see that, we used to think d-bol with HGH, increased IGF-1, but it doesn't.

    I say go npp/prop, the switch (since that the way you want to run it) to tren ace/prop, if you add the masteron , you are still only be using 3 compounds. Which is about the limit, when it comes to results, forget about any orals. If you have to use an oral, drop the masteron.

    JohnnyB

  20. #20
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Hmmm... so dbol would be equivalently replaced by Masteron ? Any other opinoins? I'm going to be a fvcking pin cushion...

  21. #21
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Wtf?

  22. #22
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Why isn't more LOGIC being provided for disagreements?

  23. #23
    JohnnyB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    Hmmm... so dbol would be equivalently replaced by Masteron? Any other opinoins? I'm going to be a fvcking pin cushion...
    No, masteron doesn't replace b-bol, they're not even close. What I'm saying is, you don't need more then 3 compounds. Pin cushion, you picked the gear Bro, prop and tren ace need to be injected eod minimum, so since you're going to be injecting eod anyway go with prop all the way.

    JohnnyB

  24. #24
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    lol ... you made "Pin Cushion" my proper name. LOVE IT! lol. Uh, why not include the DBol . tho? Simply because "3" is the magic quota number? Why exactly?

  25. #25
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Okay, so scratch the enanthate ... I'll keep it as this:

    Test-P @ 500mg 1 - 15
    NPP @ 500mg 1 - 6
    Tren -A @ 60mg 8 - 15 (ED) [50 - 75mg pending on tolerance to sides]


    My questions are...

    Use Masteron or Letro?

    Masteron @ 75mg ED 1 - 15
    - or -
    Letro @ .25mg ED 1 - 17

  26. #26
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    HOOOOKER!!!! You're HERE! :-)

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    Why isn't more LOGIC being provided for disagreements?
    The answer is in the question....

  28. #28
    chest6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    Okay, so scratch the enanthate ... I'll keep it as this:

    Test-P @ 500mg 1 - 15
    NPP @ 500mg 1 - 6
    Tren -A @ 60mg 8 - 15 (ED) [50 - 75mg pending on tolerance to sides]


    My questions are...

    Use Masteron or Letro?

    Masteron @ 75mg ED 1 - 15
    - or -
    Letro @ .25mg ED 1 - 17
    so 15 weeks of ed (or eod) whatever you decide to do with the prop? I like what you were doing originally with the enan and prop..but I also do like this current one I quoted. Hope you can handle 52/105 shots...but I don't doubt you can. This cycle seems much simpler. Tell me how this "experiment" with the NPP along with tren goes.

  29. #29
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Yeah, I'm going to do it that way... but I'm going to replace the DBol with TBol. :-) In fact, I'm decided on what I will do. :-)

  30. #30
    JohnnyB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    lol ... you made "Pin Cushion" my proper name. LOVE IT! lol. Uh, why not include the DBol. tho? Simply because "3" is the magic quota number? Why exactly?
    Not magic, but your body can only reaction to so much gear, with each having a different effect, at some point you began to get dimensioning returns, in other words, you're wasting gear and getting nothing from the extra.

    JohnnyB

  31. #31
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    You mean diminishing returns?



    Dimensioning:

    1. A measure of spatial extent, especially width, height, or length.
    2. Extent or magnitude; scope. Often used in the plural: a problem of alarming dimensions.
    3. Aspect; element: “He's a good newsman, and he has that extra dimension” (William S. Paley).
    4. Mathematics.
    1. The least number of independent coordinates required to specify uniquely the points in a space.
    2. The range of such a coordinate.
    5. Physics. A physical property, such as mass, length, time, or a combination thereof, regarded as a fundamental measure or as one of a set of fundamental measures of a physical quantity: Velocity has the dimensions of length divided by time.


    http://www.bodybuilding4life.com/for...highlight=test

    Hooker's thread titled: High Doses are Better

  32. #32
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Plus ... I'm using THREE DIFFERENT TYPES OF GEAR! :-)

    DHT
    19-Nor
    Test...

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumanHW
    This is a long list ... but each bit of it has a reason behind it ... any suggestions?

    NPP @ 500mg 1 - 6
    Test-P @ 500mg 1 - 3, and 14 - 15
    Test-E @ 500mg 2 - 13
    DBol @ 30mg 2 - 6 (ED) 30mg
    Tren -A @ 60mg 8 - 15 (ED) ( I will start at 50mg and inch up to a max of 75mg)
    Masteron @ 75mg ,,, perhaps throughout the cycle if it'll be as effective as Letro??


    Ancillaries:

    Letro at .25mg ED through week 15 (unless masteron will be equivalent)
    B6 @ 200mg ED through cycle and PCT
    Dostinex at .75mg EOD
    Milk Thistle
    HCG at 500iu EOD for weeks 6, 9, 12, and 15.
    Clomid 100mg then down to 50mg for PCT
    Nolvadex at 20mg ED from 15 - end of PCT



    Things I will keep tabs on:

    Cholesterol
    Kidneys function
    Liver Enzymes
    Thyroid funtion
    HDL/LDL
    Blood Pressure
    Ok...here's what I'm seeing:

    A JumpStart with fontloading a short ester and orals, to see results right away. A 19-nor (NPP- a pretty strong AR binder with beneficial effects on joints and immune function). Testosterone as the base compound, and to avoid sexual dysfunction from the 19-nor (NPP). A DHT based compound Masteron) for it's anti-estrogenic effects, and mild anabolism/hardening.

    Am I correct on the reasoning for all of the compounds I just mentioned and their inclusion?

    My suggestions:

    I'd just run the Tren First, with the dbol, to take advantage of the fact that you'll have a very strong binder (tren) to the AR and a very weak one (dbol) at the same time. I would then end with the NPP instead of tren. Lay off the letro if the Mast is working for keeping estrogen down enough, but if it isn't then go to .25mgs/day. I would also use HCG with Vitamin E (it increases the blood plasma response to HCG) and I'd also use Nolvadex with it (on the days you use it during the cycle, as well as for PCT)

  34. #34
    Smak is offline AR's Midget Beater
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    What are your stats Truman? How many cycles have you ran? I think a dbol , deca and test cycle would suit you well instead.

  35. #35
    Two4the$$ is offline Senior Member
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    Well, my cycle started yesterday after our conversation hook ... :-) And I'm on the OT, NPP, Test as we speak. I'm assuming that sticking with it would still be your advice ... instead of changing. Why would you use the NPP last instead of BEFORE the Tren ? I would think build as much muscle that way... then harden up with the Tren...? I did frontload the NPP/Test. :-)

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