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  1. #1
    Zues is offline Associate Member
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    Does Anyone Know?

    Anyone here know of a thread that tells the half life of each ester? Or know them off hand?

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    shortie's Avatar
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    Formate 1.5 days*
    Acetate 3 days*
    Propionate 2 days*
    Phenylpropionate 4.5 days*
    Butyrate 6 days*
    Valerate 7.5 days*
    Hexanoate 9 days*
    Caproate 9 days*
    Isocaproate 9 days*
    Heptanoate 10.5 days*
    Enanthate 10.5 days*
    Octanoate 12 days*
    Cypionate 12 days*
    Nonanoate 13.5 days*
    Decanoate 15 days*
    Undecanoate 16.5 days*

    Copied this list from Pinnacle so if it's fvked up it's all his fault.

  3. #3
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    Those look more like the active half-life, except for the prop. There is a difference, the half-life is the time it takes to go from 100mg to 50mg. If you take the days and half them, that's the half-life on almost all of those

    JohnnyB

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    shortie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyB
    Those look more like the active half-life, except for the prop. There is a difference, the half-life is the time it takes to go from 100mg to 50mg. If you take the days and half them, that's the half-life on almost all of those

    JohnnyB
    You're right, those are active times-didn't even look, just went and dug it out of the files.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyB
    Those look more like the active half-life, except for the prop. There is a difference, the half-life is the time it takes to go from 100mg to 50mg. If you take the days and half them, that's the half-life on almost all of those

    JohnnyB
    Johnny is correct.Those are active lives.Why shortie used that,I don't know.


    ~Pinnacle~

  6. #6
    stupidhippo is offline Anabolic Member
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    how does this active life work here? Can some one explain the mechanism ... is there a point where the half- life system doesnt apply and te concentration lowers to the end or what??

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    shortie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Johnny is correct.Those are active lives.Why shortie used that,I don't know.


    ~Pinnacle~
    Why you want to throw me under the bus like that pinn? lol But I did get the list off one of your posts, evidently just didn't pay enough attention to it.

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    shortie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stupidhippo
    how does this active life work here? Can some one explain the mechanism ... is there a point where the half- life system doesnt apply and te concentration lowers to the end or what??
    Well it's like JohnnyB says, half life is the amount of time it takes for half of the original depot to be remaining, 500 mg of a substance with a 5 day half life will leave 250 mg of the estered compound in 5 days. Active life is the amount of time it remains in your system in any active state, roughly double the half life.

  9. #9
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortie
    Why you want to throw me under the bus like that pinn? lol But I did get the list off one of your posts, evidently just didn't pay enough attention to it.
    I just expect soo much more of you shortie,seemed surprised you made that mistake.Don't let it happen again!!!






    Joking bro...it happens to all of us. This isn't heaven,we're all allowed to make mistakes.


    ~Pinnacle~

  10. #10
    stupidhippo is offline Anabolic Member
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    so the half life calculators here then dont work. Why the sudden drop since it would make sense that the concentratons would go like this

    half life 7 days

    week 1 200 mg
    week 2 100 mg
    week 3 50 mg
    week 4 25 mg etc................

    why does it inactivate according to some other logic than the half life one? u know the explanation to this.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by stupidhippo
    so the half life calculators here then dont work. Why the sudden drop since it would make sense that the concentratons would go like this

    half life 7 days

    week 1 200 mg
    week 2 100 mg
    week 3 50 mg
    week 4 25 mg etc................

    why does it inactivate according to some other logic than the half life one? u know the explanation to this.
    I understand where you are coming from, but you are thinking in terms a radioactive half life which is a measure of the decay of an unstable substance. Steroid half live are about gear being released from it's ester, in this case there is some of the residual gear left in the body after two half lives time, but not in any quantity. If you check on the roid calc, you will see that according to them prop will still leave 1mg active in your body up to a week and a half after used, but what is one gram, in this case insignificant. The way I look at it that the half life represents the amount that is released in a given period of time I.E. 100 mg with a 5 day half life should release 10 mg ed, therefore in 10 days it should be almost completely gone.
    Last edited by shortie; 10-04-2005 at 04:40 PM.

  12. #12
    stupidhippo is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortie
    The way I look at it that the half life represents the amount that is released in a given period of time I.E. 100 mg with a 5 day half life should release 10 mg ed, therefore in 10 days it should be almost completely gone.
    Im pretty sure this is wrong. They teach us (in pharmacology) that it usually takes 4 half lives for the concentration to get that small that its considered out of the system . And that is only based on that after 4 half lives 94 % of the stuff is gone. 100 /2 =50 /2 =25 /2=12.5 /2= 6.25 after 4 half lives it should still have the 6 % left. Since the concentration always divides equally so it is logical that when the amount gets smaller it doesnt get metabolized with the same speed anymore. The reason I asked this was does anyone know how the steroid ester metabolis / halflife works actually since the half-life system is not that precise.

  13. #13
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    While the essence of what I said I still feel is correct I think I have found the right way to look at this, I do not believe all the active agent is gone within the active life, but the measureable consequential portion is gone. Qoute from William Llewellyn:


    There are a number of factors that can affect the potency of a particular drug compound. One such factor, and perhaps one of the most important, is the half-life of the agent. In medicine, the term half-life refers to the duration it takes for half of a given drug dosage to break down in the body. It is not half of the total activity time, as this figure always refers to the time it takes to metabolize 50% of what is in still the body. For example, if we inject 100mg a steroid with a half-life of 4 hours, at the four-hour mark we should have only 50mg left as active. After another four hours have passed the drug is still in the body, however another half-life has expired and the total active dosage will be around 25mg. It may take several half-lives before the drug is completely inactive.

    A good way to illustrate half-life is through the "flipping penny" experiment. I remember it well from my high school earth sciences class, and I'm sure many of you have probably done this exercise as well. This experiment involves placing 100 pennies inside a flat, closeable box. It is big enough that the pennies can sit side by side comfortably without overlapping each other. We begin with them all facing "heads-up". Next we close the box, give it a good shake, and then open it back up again. We then proceed to remove all pennies that are now "tails-up" in the box. This process is repeated until all of the pennies have been flipped and are removed from the box. We find that with each shake we loose about half of them. Around 50 the first flip, 25 the second, a dozen of so on the third, and so on. Although half of the original amount are tailed and removed on the first flip, it takes many successive tries to clear them all. And usually there are a couple of kids in the class that just can't seem to get the last few over without a lot of work. This illustrates well the way in which we measure drug metabolism in the body. Half-life is not an easy reference for the total time a drug will be found active in the body, but more a guide to optimizing a dosing schedule and avoiding unwanted peaks and troughs.
    Last edited by shortie; 10-05-2005 at 01:40 PM.

  14. #14
    stupidhippo is offline Anabolic Member
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    thanks.. this is an interesting topic, I would be interested to know that at what point does the actice life completely stop and why... cause if u would follow the half life theory to the end the active life would go on and on (even with small amounts left) =) I know this is not very important to know for practical use but interesting still.. Pretty good way to illustrate half-life shortie.. so would there be a small amount of active ingredient left after lets say 20 half-lives or do they at some given point all metabolize completely.. I know the half-life system is only created for the reasons shortie stated and its only an estimate so maybe my question is pointless... oh well...

  15. #15
    shortie's Avatar
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    Hippo, it has actually caused me to have more questions than answers. To start with we always say two weeks from last inject to PCT with Test E. But shouldn't the timing be different based on doseage. Ex: If a 500mg shot with a 7 day half life is at 125 mg at 14 days, then wouldn't a 1000mg shot be at 250 in 14 days and therefore be more supressive to natural test levels necessitating more time off to PCT?

    Just when I think I got it all knowed up something comes along and messes with my thinking-anyone have an answer to the issue of half-live and dose determining time off between cycle and PCT?

  16. #16
    Zues is offline Associate Member
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    Just when I think I got it all knowed up something comes along and messes with my thinking-anyone have an answer to the issue of half-live and dose determining time off between cycle and PCT?[/QUOTE]

    Thats what I want to know also. I wan't to know how to figure out the active concentration of each ester every day. I want to tune my next cycle to get my blood levels as even as possible the whole way through.

  17. #17
    shortie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zues
    Thats what I want to know also. I wan't to know how to figure out the active concentration of each ester every day. I want to tune my next cycle to get my blood levels as even as possible the whole way through.
    To help you "tune" your cycle for optimum blood levels, while not perfect I use http://www.roidcalc.com/ . It has some good info on it, I still wonder about the whole time to PCT thing though as I tend to take higher doses of test than some folks.

  18. #18
    Zues is offline Associate Member
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    I found that calculator the other day. Its okay IMO. But the one thing I noticed was that when I put it in as if I was frontloading I noticed the levels peaked a few weeks sooner and were pretty stable throught the entire cycle. Only thing is I could not get it to go beyond 8 weeks. As for how long its in you after your last injection I think you take the half life and divide it in half every so many days depending on what ester it is. One thing my source did last cycle and had great results from it was running Test Suspension with Tren the last 8 weeks so pretty much any long esters were out of his system and he was able to start clomid right after and he said he kept almost all of his gains and hasnt noticed that big of a decrease in strength. But he is also running GH the entire time.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zues
    I found that calculator the other day. Its okay IMO. But the one thing I noticed was that when I put it in as if I was front loading I noticed the levels peaked a few weeks sooner and were pretty stable throughout the entire cycle. Only thing is I could not get it to go beyond 8 weeks. As for how long its in you after your last injection I think you take the half life and divide it in half every so many days depending on what ester it is. One thing my source did last cycle and had great results from it was running Test Suspension with Tren the last 8 weeks so pretty much any long esters were out of his system and he was able to start clomid right after and he said he kept almost all of his gains and hasn't noticed that big of a decrease in strength. But he is also running GH the entire time.
    If you want to make your cycle even far more complicated.Why not make an excel spread sheet?I'm willing to bet that will be far more accurate than that roid calculator.

    ~Pinnacle~

  20. #20
    Zues is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    If you want to make your cycle even far more complicated.Why not make an excel spread sheet?I'm willing to bet that will be far more accurate than that roid calculator.

    ~Pinnacle~

    That would be great but I have almost no experience with excel and would not have the first idea of what to do.

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