Liver values are high!!

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10-06-2005, 04:11 AM
kambo

Liver values are high!!

I have done a cycle with test cyp and eq, with proper pct(nolva, clomid). I was on for 14 weeks. The pct ended 20th of July. This was my second cycle.

I was to my doc the other day to check my blood and it turned out that my liver values are 6 times higher than normal. I told my doc everything about the cycle but he was still worried because he thought that the values should have come back to normal already. He told me that he didnt know so much about AS and pct.

Now I wonder if I should be worried? I didnt use any liverprotection as milk thistle which was very stupid I guess! Does it make any difference if I start milk thistle now and at what doses?

Could anyone please help me???

BTW I am 35, and weigh about 85-90kg

Please anyone! the doc has really scared the shit out of me!
10-06-2005, 04:25 AM
ScottyShotty

Quote:

Originally Posted by kambo

I have done a cycle with test cyp and eq, with proper pct(nolva, clomid). I was on for 14 weeks. The pct ended 20th of July. This was my second cycle.

I was to my doc the other day to check my blood and it turned out that my liver values are 6 times higher than normal. I told my doc everything about the cycle but he was still worried because he thought that the values should have come back to normal already. He told me that he didnt know so much about AS and pct.

Now I wonder if I should be worried? I didnt use any liverprotection as milk thistle which was very stupid I guess! Does it make any difference if I start milk thistle now and at what doses?

Could anyone please help me???

BTW I am 35, and weigh about 85-90kg

Please anyone! the doc has really scared the shit out of me!

I had the same problem before I started my cycle. I'm on week 4 now.What were the actually levels? Mine were extremely high
10-06-2005, 04:30 AM
kambo

Scotty shotty

I dont know the actual levels more than that they are 6 times the normal.
10-06-2005, 06:11 AM
stupidhippo

do u drink a loT? have any liver diseases like hepatitis?
10-06-2005, 06:38 AM
JasperJ

I would be interested in reading the levels as well. Make sure if you find them you post a normal range, because some tests vary.

About three weeks after my last cycle my levels were in the high fifties. Between 1-50 was norm and 50-100 above what they should have been.

If your liver enzymes are six times the normal rate months after you stopped the roids you should be in contact with a specialist. Six times the normal rate is what people who need liver transplants have. I would go see an endocronologist immediately, do not pass go, do not collect 200$. I'd be looking for a problem outside the AS spectrum, but only a doctor can confirm that.
10-06-2005, 06:43 AM
powerliftmike

Quote:

Originally Posted by kambo

I have done a cycle with test cyp and eq, with proper pct(nolva, clomid). I was on for 14 weeks. The pct ended 20th of July. This was my second cycle.

I was to my doc the other day to check my blood and it turned out that my liver values are 6 times higher than normal. I told my doc everything about the cycle but he was still worried because he thought that the values should have come back to normal already. He told me that he didnt know so much about AS and pct.

Now I wonder if I should be worried? I didnt use any liverprotection as milk thistle which was very stupid I guess! Does it make any difference if I start milk thistle now and at what doses?

Could anyone please help me???

BTW I am 35, and weigh about 85-90kg

Please anyone! the doc has really scared the shit out of me!

Milk Thistle is actually best post-cycle. There is some evidence using it on cycle with orals may reduce their effectiveness. I dont see how your enzymes are so high from just test. Usually only tren, winstrol, dbol, abombs cause this.

I have high liver enzymes myself, mainly due to a cycle involving winstrol and dbol. I got a produce called liver detox which I am using now during my test cycle. I am going to get my liver rechecked after this cycle/detox to note improvements.

I hope you get everything back to normal, and I hope I do too :)
10-06-2005, 06:46 AM
olederndirt

I've had a high test result before without aas. Following test was normal as was all the following tests. Will you be tested again?
10-06-2005, 06:54 AM
BOBBY D

did u drink hard liquor the night before or a few days before. also it could be some other medical issue. stay on top of it bro.
10-06-2005, 08:37 AM
kambo

Thank You everybody trying to help me!

I called my doc and got the results, they are as follows:

ALAT 2,56 normal range is 0,15-1,1
ASAT 6,8 normal range is 0,25-0,75

One and a half week before this test I drank pretty hard one night, but my doctor told me it couldnt gone up this high because of that.

I do not have any diseases and I do not drink more than maybe once a month.

My doctor is sending me to a specialist.
10-06-2005, 08:40 AM
Mesomorphyl

Quote:

Originally Posted by kambo

Thank You everybody trying to help me!

My doctor is sending me to a specialist.

Good luck bro and come back to give an update.
10-06-2005, 09:01 AM
longhorn814

ive had values that high before, but never so long after a cycle. I know people that have had them even higher too. Get some Liv 52, it is far superior to milk thistle IMO. Tylers Liver Detox and R-ALA are also good for your liver.

Get tested for hepatitis too, that causes elevation of those values. Working out can cause elevation of those values too due to muscle breakdown when training. When training, your muscles can release those enzymes into your blood and can affect your values, especially if you have trained recently before a test. Now this isnt always the case, but it can happen.
10-06-2005, 09:07 AM
mranak

The AAS is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to be the cause of you elevated livery enzymes.

Don't take any supplements to lower them without first getting the okay from your physician. You need to find the root cause.

I'm sure that the specialist will know the best course of action so do not worry. I'm sure you'll be getting a full hepatic panel done soon enough to start.
10-06-2005, 09:11 AM
shortie

Listen to your Doc, not us, like Mranak said, nothing goes in your system other than what your specialist says. Good luck bro, and keep us updated.
10-06-2005, 11:38 AM
Deezuhl

mine were 10x the normal level at 428. i was on winny without thistle and not much water intake. i did 4 weeks thistle and liver detox pills only. no vitamins, no amino, no aspirin. my values after 4 weeks came down to 50 range.
10-06-2005, 02:17 PM
ScottyShotty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deezuhl

mine were 10x the normal level at 428. i was on winny without thistle and not much water intake. i did 4 weeks thistle and liver detox pills only. no vitamins, no amino, no aspirin. my values after 4 weeks came down to 50 range.

Wow thats really great news to hear!! Congratulations. That really takes a big load off my chest because mine were 111 and the norm is 4-37. 100 is chorossis and hep. level but any muscle damage, any muscular injections can also make them rise.
10-06-2005, 09:29 PM
liftergirl

By the way.... AST and ALT (used to be called SGOT and SGTP) values are more indicative of liver damage, rather than liver function. If they are high, there are a lot of reasons that they could be up that are either due to damage to your liver itself, or something completely unrelated. Of course, hepatitis is always a possibility, but having elevated bilirubin levels, having excessive blood product breakdown, having gallbladder problems...etc. can also cause GREAT increases in AST and ALT.

Has your doc checked your bilirubin, albumin, or alk phos levels? Those values are important in determining how your liver is also functioning.

Good luck! Keep us posted!
10-07-2005, 01:17 AM
redmeat

ALT and AST are going to be elevated if you lift weights, period.
10-07-2005, 02:02 AM
Maximus G

Quote:

Originally Posted by mranak

The AAS is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to be the cause of you elevated livery enzymes.

Don't take any supplements to lower them without first getting the okay from your physician. You need to find the root cause.

I'm sure that the specialist will know the best course of action so do not worry. I'm sure you'll be getting a full hepatic panel done soon enough to start.

why is it unlikely that aas elevates liver values? its the first time i hear someone say that and its not true of course steroids can mess with your liver values and remember some people can use alot of steroids and their livervalues are ok and other use low doses of aas and get elevated values because they are sensetive ,everybody is different but just stop using aas and dont drink alcohol and the livervalues will go back to normal the liver is the organ that can regenerate it selfe best you can even with surgery remove half your liver(a healthy) and it will grow out again, i have 2 good friends that are doctors specialists on the liver so i get alot of info from them
10-07-2005, 01:08 PM
mranak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximus G

why is it unlikely that aas elevates liver values? its the first time i hear someone say that and its not true of course steroids can mess with your liver values and remember some people can use alot of steroids and their livervalues are ok and other use low doses of aas and get elevated values because they are sensetive ,everybody is different but just stop using aas and dont drink alcohol and the livervalues will go back to normal the liver is the organ that can regenerate it selfe best you can even with surgery remove half your liver(a healthy) and it will grow out again, i have 2 good friends that are doctors specialists on the liver so i get alot of info from them

I was only referring to the AAS type and quantity listed in this guys case. Resoanble doses of esterized anabolics, when injected, just don't have that great of an effect on the liver. Are some people more prone to elevated liver enzymes? Yes. In fact, some people have elevated liver enzymes without any apparent cause.

Orals, of course, don't do the liver any favors.
10-07-2005, 04:51 PM
Deezuhl

Quote:

Originally Posted by mranak

I was only referring to the AAS type and quantity listed in this guys case. Resoanble doses of esterized anabolics, when injected, just don't have that great of an effect on the liver. Are some people more prone to elevated liver enzymes? Yes. In fact, some people have elevated liver enzymes without any apparent cause.

Orals, of course, don't do the liver any favors.

and for that matter not much orally does the liver any favors including aspirin, ephedrine, aminos, vitamin pills, tribulus,etc.. all the things we load up on when on cycle. then you add to that dbol, tbol, winny etc.. and they are gonna skyrocket.
10-07-2005, 05:00 PM
longhorn814

What is your GGT level? That is more indicative of liver problems than AST or ALT
10-07-2005, 05:10 PM
redmeat

Quote:

Originally Posted by longhorn814

What is your GGT level? That is more indicative of liver problems than AST or ALT

yep.
10-07-2005, 11:02 PM
liftergirl

Quote:

Originally Posted by longhorn814

What is your GGT level? That is more indicative of liver problems than AST or ALT

Well, GGT levels are the most sensitive for liver damage, but it's high with any type of liver damage. AST and ALT levels can be compared and then a dr can determine what's more likely to have caused the problem. For example, an alcoholic's AST is going to be a lot higher than ALT. But, again, there are lots of reasons why they can be high. And yes, working out can cause elevated AST and ALT levels, but shouldn't be as high as what he stated they were. But, if he's seeing a specialist soon, he'll get it figured out.
10-07-2005, 11:07 PM
Seattle Junk

Quote:

Originally Posted by liftergirl

By the way.... AST and ALT (used to be called SGOT and SGTP) values are more indicative of liver damage, rather than liver function. If they are high, there are a lot of reasons that they could be up that are either due to damage to your liver itself, or something completely unrelated. Of course, hepatitis is always a possibility, but having elevated bilirubin levels, having excessive blood product breakdown, having gallbladder problems...etc. can also cause GREAT increases in AST and ALT.

Has your doc checked your bilirubin, albumin, or alk phos levels? Those values are important in determining how your liver is also functioning.

Good luck! Keep us posted!

Good point LG. Do you or did you have any sign of slight jaundice? Slight yellow tint to your skin and/or eyes.