Thread: cycle affected by glutamine?
10-07-2005, 08:25 AM #1New Member
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- Oct 2005
cycle affected by glutamine?
can a cycle's effectiveness be affected by taking glutamine? I have heard arguments on both sides of the fence and I would like to know everyone elses opinion.
10-07-2005, 08:33 AM #2
I have always taking glutamine. It is premixed with my protein powder and It has never hurt me. It might depend on the body and how you taking it. I usually take it post workout..
10-07-2005, 08:36 AM #3
try taking some upon awaking in the morning, before and after workout and before bed..
10-07-2005, 08:36 AM #4New Member
Originally Posted by stevenb
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- Oct 2005
10-07-2005, 07:29 PM #5Originally Posted by dawhat
10-07-2005, 07:39 PM #6
Glutamine will not do sh*t:
-Glutamine production in muscle protein is 50% lower than assumed
-Most amino acids are precursors for alanine and glutamine synthesis in skeletal muscle
-90% of the glutamine you take orally never even makes it to your muscles. Glutamine supplementation decreases it's own synthesis and mostly turns itself into glucose.
-Glutamine does not prevent exercise-induced immune impairment. Carbs do. And glutamine does not influence hormonal levels
-Glutamine does not increase protein synthesis
-Glutamine prevents protein degradation but not more effectively than carbs
-Carbhohydrate or BCAA supplementation prevents decrease in glutamine levels during exercise
-Fasting decreases glutamine transport. And supplementation during fasting does not prevent muscle loss
-Glutamine does not enhance performance
10-07-2005, 07:42 PM #7Originally Posted by big'r
10-07-2005, 08:08 PM #8Originally Posted by big'r
I want a source on your information please.
10-07-2005, 09:01 PM #9
I will. Don't worry!!!
But where are your sources claiming glutamine will do anything at all
(And i don't mean in healthy people, not hospitalized patients under severe post-operative stress).
Since the reason to buy something in the first place would be as study showing it's benefits....... Right?
10-07-2005, 09:42 PM #10Originally Posted by big'r
And you don't mean healthy and non-healthy people???
Studies are great, look the benifits up while looking for documentation on the worthlessness of glutimine, but what about good ol' experience? Would that count?
p.s. who is that girl in your avatar?
Last edited by Mesomorphyl; 10-07-2005 at 09:45 PM.
10-07-2005, 09:51 PM #11Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
You are so funny....
Experience means completely nothing, for you cannot exclude all variables, nor can you measure anything going on in your body.
You will not get any further then "i feel good about it" or "it makes my muscle bloat"
So when are you going to post the proof? I promise i will react by posting all studie backing up my claims.....
So bring it on. Or are you now going to state you actually can't find any positive study?
10-07-2005, 10:12 PM #12Originally Posted by big'r
Experience means completely nothing??? Wow, what about human use of eq and tren ? I bet they work, yet... hold on... there is no study on that. Well must not work then
We asked you for the studys or at least the source you pulled your info from, I mean come on bud you gave percentages and said carbs are more effective than glutimine for preventing protein degradation... You aren't going to post up Bull Shyt you just posted, huh? Did you say you will post something up? Did you get your information from someplace other than out of thin air?
I tell you what little girl, I will stick my head up my ass so I can see your point of view
10-07-2005, 10:23 PM #13Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
Experience means nothing if there is sufficient scientific evidence stating otherwise
Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
-Glutamine prevents protein degradation but not more effectively than carbsOriginally Posted by Mesomorphyl
What's your statement now? Do you think personal experience is more important than 20 studies showing no effect, or do you think there actually is evidence proving it's worth?
Based on what do you advice people to take glutamine?
10-07-2005, 10:30 PM #14Originally Posted by big'r
Reading must be hard for you I said "I mean come on bud you gave percentages and said carbs are more effective than glutimine for preventing protein degradation..."
Please show the 20 studies showing no effect that you talk about.(I didn't think so, put that head back up that ass, mmmmkay)
10-07-2005, 10:46 PM #15
Here's on..and there are tons more to post up......References and all...
By: Mauro Di Pasquale
- 09/25/2002 - Because it is so prominent in supplements these days, Dr. Di gives us the ins and outs of Glutamine, and what it can mean to athletic training.
Many of the formulations in the APT Nutrition line of Nutritional supplements, including our MRP LoCarb Meal Replacement Shakes, contain a good dose of glutamine peptides. That's because glutamine is absorbed faster as peptides rather than free glutamine and also because the peptides give us the advantages, not only of the free glutamine, but also of the bioactive peptide forms. The combination leads to beneficial synergistic effects on the protein synthesis and recuperation.
Wht Is Glutamine & How Can It Help Me?
Glutamine is one of the most important amino acids in the body in that it fuels both the gut and immune system and maximizes protein synthesis. Besides being so versatile, or perhaps because of that, recent studies and articles suggest that glutamine can be used as a marker of over-training.1,2,3
There are several markers that can be used to determine if someone is over-trained.4 One of them may be by measuring glutamine.
A study last year looked at various parameters of successful training, including glutamine, and found that although none of the other parameters measured (including serum hormone and cortisol levels) showed any significant changes during the training season, glutamine levels correlated with the degree of successful training, which was measured by improvements in performance. The elevations in plasma glutamine concentration observed in response to long-term balanced training in this study may be distinguishable from previous reports of decreased glutamine concentrations in over-trained athletes. Making it a potentially valuable tool in the monitoring of over-training in athletes.
The other side of the coin of course is to see if the use of supplemental glutamine has a positive effect on both preventing and alleviating the over-training syndrome. I believe that it would since glutamine not only increases protein synthesis and decreases protein breakdown but it also has positive effects on the immune system, which in turn can affect various parameters of the over-training syndrome.
As well, glutamine has recently been shown that it may act both as a substrate and as a regulator of gluconeogenesis (the production of glucose from other substrates such as amino acids, glycerol and lactic acid).5 This is important because it provides a vital supply of fuel for muscles and other tissues including the brain, and may thus improve muscle and cognitive function during training and help attenuate some aspects of over-training.
Glutamine is showing itself to be one of the most versatile and useful nutrients for sports performance. For example, a study published this year showed that glycogen resynthesis rates were higher after ingestion of a drink containing glutamine and other peptides in comparison to a drink containing just free glutamine.6
Even more interesting was a study published last year. This study looked at the effects of glutamine in promoting whole body carbohydrate storage and muscle glycogen resynthesis during recovery from exhaustive exercise.7
In this study, postabsorptive subjects (subjects have no digestion going on in the GI tract so that no nutrients are forthcoming from any food ingested) completed a glycogen-depleting exercise protocol. After their exercise they consumed 330 ml of one of three drinks, 18.5% glucose polymer solution, 8 g glutamine in 330 ml glucose polymer solution, or 8 g glutamine in 330 ml placebo. In addition, they received a primed constant infusion of glucose for 2 hours.
The authors found that Plasma glutamine concentration was increased after consumption of the glutamine drinks and that oral glutamine alone promoted storage of muscle glycogen to an extent similar to oral glucose polymer. Ingestion of glutamine and glucose polymer together promoted the storage of carbohydrate outside of skeletal muscle, the most feasible site being the liver. While we still need more studies to nail down all the specifics of the effects of glutamine on sports performance and exercise, the bottom line is, supplemental glutamine can have significant effects on many aspects of your training and help you achieve your sports and fitness goals.
1. Walsh NP, Blannin AK, Robson PJ, et al., Glutamine, exercise and immune function. Links and possible mechanisms. Sports Med 1998 Sep;26(3):177-91.
2. Rowbottom, D. G., D. Keast, P. Garcia-Webb, et al., Training adaptation and biological changes among well-trained male triathletes. Med Sci Sports Exerc Vol. 29, No. 9, pp. 1233-1239, 1997.
3. Rowbottom DG, Keast D, Morton AR. The emerging role of glutamine as an indicator of exercise stress and overtraining. Sports Med 1996 Feb;21(2):80-97.
4. McKenzie DC. Markers of excessive exercise. Can J Appl Physiol 1999 Feb;24(1):66-73.
5. Perriello G, Nurjhan N, Stumvoll M, et al., Regulation of gluconeogenesis by glutamine in normal postabsorptive humans. Am J Physiol 1997; 272 (3 Pt 1): E437-E445.
6. van Hall G, Saris WH, van de Schoor PA, et al., The effect of free glutamine and peptide ingestion on the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis in man. Int J Sports Med 2000 Jan;21(1):25-30.
7. Bowtell JL, Gelly K, Jackman ML, et al., Effect of oral glutamine on whole body carbohydrate storage during recovery from exhaustive exercise. J Appl Physiol 1999 Jun;86(6):1770-7.
10-07-2005, 10:48 PM #16Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
As i stated before:So when are you going to post the proof? I promise i will react by posting all studie backing up my claims.....
If i don't react by posting all studies (within 48 hours of your post) following 1 study proving any of your points, the mods can BAN me....... Agreed?
Enlighten me. Any study in healthy subject (or even healthy rats) showing it will help under one of the conditions you posted. (Help means an increase in protein synthesis/muscle mass):
-during times of fasting
-before cardio/before bed (and an increase in GH does not automatically mean increased protein synthesis)
-Or you may prove more than 10% of oral glutamine makes it to the muscle
C'mmon big boy. I put my ass on the line. What's your move?
You have a big mouth. Now you can prove it actually does anything (and at the same time get rid of me).
10-07-2005, 10:51 PM #17
Glutamine Research Update
Oral glutamine supplementation decreases resting energy expenditure in children and adolescents with sickle cell anemia.
J Pediatr Hematol Oncol. 2004 Oct;26(10):619-25.
To determine the effects of orally administered glutamine on the resting energy expenditure (REE) and nutritional status of children and adolescents with sickle cell anemia. Twenty-seven children and adolescents (13 boys, 14 girls), 5.2 to 17.9 years old, received orally administered glutamine (600 mg/kg per day) for 24 weeks. Measures of REE and other nutritional parameters were compared at baseline and 24 weeks. RESULTS: After 24 weeks, the patients' median REE (kcal/d) decreased by 6%. Patients with less than 90% ideal body weight had even greater declines in REE after 24 weeks. Improvements in nutrition parameters and in two amino acids in the plasma were observed. CONCLUSIONS: After 24 weeks of orally administered glutamine, children and adolescents with sickle cell anemia had a decrease in REE and improvement in nutritional parameters. Those who were underweight had a greater decrease in REE than those of normal body weight. Lowering REE may be an effective way to improve the growth of these children and adolescents.
Effects of an oral mixture containing glycine, glutamine and niacin on memory, HGH and IGF-I secretion in middle-aged and elderly subjects.
Nutr Neurosci. 2003 Oct;6(5):269-75.
Aging is associated with declining activity of the growth hormone-insulin-like growth factor-I (GH-IGF-I) axis and with a decrease in cognitive function. The stimulatory effect of an orally administered nutritional supplement, mainly containing glycine, glutamine and niacin on the GH-IGF-I axis and on mood and cognition was investigated. Forty-two healthy subjects (14 men and 28 women, aged 40-76 years) were enrolled in a randomised, double blind, placebo-controlled trial. They received 5 g of a nutritional supplement or placebo, twice daily orally for a period of 3 weeks. At baseline and after 3 weeks, blood was collected for measurement of serum GH and IGF-I levels and mood and cognitive function were tested. The nutritional supplement ingestion for 3 weeks was found to increase serum GH levels with 70% relatively to placebo, whereas circulating IGF-I levels did not change. Mean GH (+/- SD) increased in this group from 3.23 (+/- 4.78) to 4.67 mU/l (+/- 5.27) (p = 0.03). GH increase was not associated with improvement in mood or memory. Correlation analyses, however, revealed that individual increases in IGF-I, but not GH, were associated with improved memory and vigour. It is concluded that an oral mixture of glycine, glutamine and niacin can enhance GH secretion in healthy middle-aged and elderly subjects.
L-glutamine supplementation improves nelfinavir-associated diarrhea in HIV-infected individuals.
HIV Clin Trials. 2003 Sep-Oct;4(5):324-9.
PURPOSE: To determine whether L-glutamine decreases the severity of nelfinavir-associated diarrhea in HIV-infected individuals. Other endpoints include the effect on quality of life, muscle-wasting syndrome, CD4 counts, and viral load. METHOD: HIV-infected patients with nelfinavir-associated diarrhea for >1 month were randomized to receive L-glutamine 30 g/day or placebo for 10 days in a prospective, double-blind, crossover study. Diarrhea was measured on a scale ranging from grade 0 (no diarrhea) to grade 4 (severe diarrhea, > 7 stools/day). Quality of life was assessed by the Medical Outcome Study (MOS) HIV questionnaire. RESULTS: Twenty-five participants completed the study. There was a significant difference between the L-glutamine and placebo arms on the mean grade of diarrhea (0.762 vs. 1.850, p <.01) when placebo was administered first. When L-glutamine was administered first, there was a significant crossover effect (p <.02), with similar mean grades of diarrhea in the two groups. There was also a significant difference between L-glutamine and placebo in the mean change in MOS scores from baseline (1.48 vs. -2.19, p <.017). There were no significant differences between treatment groups for the other endpoints. CONCLUSIONS: In this population of HIV-positive participants, L-glutamine 30 g/day significantly (p <.01) reduced the severity of nelfinavir-associated diarrhea and produced improved quality of life compared with placebo.
The effects of 8 weeks of creatine monohydrate and glutamine supplementation on body composition and performance measures.
Lehmkuhl M, Malone M. Auburn University, Auburn, AL 36849, USA.
J Strength Cond Res. 2003 Aug;17(3):425-38.
Twenty-nine (17 men, 12 women) collegiate track and field athletes were randomly divided into a creatine monohydrate (CM, n = 10) group, creatine monohydrate and glutamine (CG, n = 10) group, or placebo (P, n = 9) group. The CM group received 0.3 g creatine.kg body mass per day for 1 week, followed by 0.03 g creatine.kg body mass per day for 7 weeks. The CG group received the same creatine dosage scheme as the CM group plus 4 g glutamine /day (-1). All 3 treatment groups participated in an identical periodized strength and conditioning program during preseason training. Body composition, vertical jump, and cycle performances were tested before (T1) and after (T2) the 8-week supplementation period. Body mass and lean body mass (LBM) increased at a greater rate for the CM and Creatine-Glutamine groups, compared with the P treatment. Additionally, the CM and CG groups exhibited significantly greater improvement in initial rate of power production, compared with the placebo treatment. These results suggest CM and creatine-glutamine significantly increase body mass, LBM, and initial rate of power production during multiple cycle ergometer bouts.
Glutamine metabolism by lymphocytes, macrophages, and neutrophils: its importance in health and disease.
J Nutr Biochem. 1999 Jun;10(6):316-24.
Many aspects of the cell biology of lymphocytes, macrophages, and neutrophils have been studied extensively. Our recent work on these cells has investigated how fuel metabolism, especially glutamine metabolism, is related to the specific function of these cells in the inflammatory response. The high rate of glutamine utilization and its metabolism in such immune cells has raised the question of why glutamine is responsible for these functions. The macrophage has access to a variety of metabolic fuels both in vivo and in vitro. The quantitatively important role of glutamine in the processes of free radical and cytokine production has been established in our laboratories. Our current understanding of the rate of utilization and the pathway of metabolism of glutamine by cells of the immune system raises some intriguing questions concerning therapeutic manipulation of utilization of this amino acid, specifically the phagocytic and secretory capacities of cells of the defense system can be beneficially altered.
The influence of combined supplementation of glutamine and recombinant human growth hormone on the protein metabolism in severely burned patients
Zhonghua Shao Shang Za Zhi. 2004 Aug;20(4):220-2.
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the influence of combined supplementation of glutamine and recombinant human growth hormone on the protein metabolism in severely burned patients. METHODS: Sixty severely burned patients were enrolled in the study and were randomly divided into control (C, n = 20) and glutamine with rhGH (glutamine + rhGH, n = 20) groups. The patients in C group received glycin as the placebo, while those in Gln group took Gln orally in dose of 0.5 g kg(-1) d(-1) during 1-14 postburn days (PBDs). For the patients in glutamine + rhGH group rhGH was administered subcutaneously in dose of 0.2 U kg(-1) d(-1) in addition to glutamine in same dosage beginning on the 7 PBD for 7 days. The plasma glutamine concentration in the 3 groups of patients was determined on the 1st, 7th and 14th PBD and the plasma albumin level was determined on 14th and 21st PBD. The wound healing rate of the patients within 30 PBSs and the total hospital stay days were recorded. RESULTS: The plasma glutamine concentration in glutamine + rhGH group of patients was evidently higher than that in C group after 7 PBD. The plasma albumin level in glutamine + rhGH group was obviously higher than that in C and glutamine groups on the 21st PBD. The wound healing rate in glutamine + rhGH group was evidently higher than that in glutamine and C groups on the 30th PBD (P < 0.05). The total hospital stay days in glutamine + rhGH group were obviously less than that in C and glutamine groups. CONCLUSION: Combined administration of glutamine and rhGH could be beneficial to the elevation of plasma glutamine level in severely burned patients and the systemic protein synthesis was therefore enhanced and the wound healing rate was improved.
10-07-2005, 10:53 PM #18Originally Posted by Pinnacle
10-07-2005, 10:55 PM #19
Here's a study on how good it is on intestines...rats though..
Department of Surgery, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Mass.
Glutamine (GLN) is an important fuel and epidermal growth factor (EGF) is a potent mitogen for intestinal mucosa cells. GLN-enriched parenteral nutrition was administered to male Wistar rats, and subcutaneous injections of EGF were given for 3, 6, and 7 days. Control animals were fed a non-GLN-containing solution. Other groups of animals received GLN or EGF alone. Mucosal samples were obtained from the jejunum, ileum, and colon for measurement of weight, DNA, protein, and mucosal thickness. Disaccharidase activity was measured in the jejunum. After 3 days, only animals that received both GLN and EGF had a significant increase in small-bowel mucosal protein and thickness relative to controls. A similar pattern was observed in the colon, where animals that received both agents had a greater mucosal thickness, DNA, and protein content than controls. At 7 days, animals that received EGF or GLN had greater nitrogen retention. In addition, animals that were treated with EGF had elevated sucrase and maltase activity compared with GLN-fed animals at this time. Animals treated with GLN and EGF tended to have increased sucrase activity relative to controls. GLN feeding was associated with increased mucosal DNA and protein contents throughout the intestine for the combined series. EGF increased mucosal DNA and protein in the small intestine but not in the colon. The effect of EGF on the protein content of the small-bowel mucosa was dose dependent. The effects of GLN and EGF on the small bowel and colonic mucosa were additive. These studies suggest that specific nutrients and hormones may be used in combination to decrease the mucosal atrophy that commonly occurs after gut disuse or disease.
10-07-2005, 10:57 PM #20Originally Posted by big'r
10-07-2005, 10:57 PM #21Originally Posted by big'r
Glutamine: No amino acid is as important in promoting muscle anabolism as glutamine. Intracellular glutamine levels are directly correlated with protein synthesis. 2 grams of glutamine taken orally at bedtime have also been shown to significantly elevate human growth hormone levels while sleeping.
Glutamine has been shown to assist in improving: immune system function, brain function, blood sugar levels, increasing muscle mass, and healing and maintaining the digestive tract. It decreases intestinal permeability by nutritionally supporting and strengthening the mucosa.
* "There is increasing evidence that systemic Glutamine functions as an important biosynthesis precursor in intestinal cells by supporting synthesis of Glutathione"
* Present Knowledge in Nutrition 7th Edition. p74. By: International Life Sciences Institute.
The majority of commercially available Glutamine sources offer only L-Glutamine, a synthetic, free amino acid. L-Glutamine has been shown to be unstable in the presence of heat, water, acid or base solutions, making L-Glutamine impractical to utilize in all but powdered food preparations. Covalent Bonded Glutamine, on the other hand, has been shown to withstand processing temperatures of 180 degrees Fahrenheit for one hour or 250 degrees Fahrenheit for 15 minutes and pH variances in the range of 3.5 to 9.0. In addition, Covalent Bonded Glutamine is stable in aqueous solutions for prolonged periods of time. Covalent Bonded Glutamine can be used in all liquid and semi-solid food preparations. In addition, due to the instability of L-Glutamine in water and pH extremes, it is safe to assume that much of L-Glutamine decomposes once it passes into the human gastrointestinal tract. Gastric acid is equivalent to 0.1 Normal Hydrochloric Acid (pH less than 2) and at 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit and a pH below 2, L-Glutamine decomposes very quickly. In addition, since L-Glutamine is a free amino acid, what percentage that does survive the pH extremes of the stomach is absorbed through the intestinal wall by a different mechanism than covalent bound amino acids...this free amino acid absorption mechanism is competitive... meaning that in an excess of free amino acids, only a certain percentage of any particular free amino acid will be absorbed. Covalent Bonded Glutamine, on the other hand demonstrates improved retention in intestinal cells and the oligopeptides containing Glutamine will be absorbed through the intestinal wall by a less "competitive" method. Studies by P.D. Fairclough et al., G.K. Grimble et al, and D.B.A. Silk et al, have shown that uptake of amino acids is faster and more "even" from oligopeptide chains than from the equivalent free amino acid mixtures in the Human intestine. In other words, Covalent Bonded Glutamine will be absorbed faster and probably more efficiently than L-Glutamine in the Human digestive system. Recent publications have stated that Covalent bonded glutamine delivers up to 10 times more glutamine to the blood stream than L-glutamine.
And here is a bunch of references:
1. Shabert & Ehrlich (editors;1994), Avery Publishing Group, NY. "The Ultimate Nutrient Glutamine: The Essential Non-essential Amino Acid".
2.Grimble (1994), Annual Review of Nutrition 14, 419 - 447. "The Significance of Peptides In Clinical Nutrition".
3. Scheppach et al. (1994), Gastroenterology 107, 429 - 434. "Effect of Free Glutamine and Alanyl-Glutamine Dipeptide on Mucosal Proliferation of the Human Ileum and Colon".
4. Miname et al. (1992), Gastroenterology 103, 3 - 11. "Characteristics and Mechanism of Glutamine Dipeptide Absorption in Human Intestine".
5. Adibi (1987), Metabolism 36, 1001 - 1011. "Experimental Basis For Use of Peptides As Substrates For Parenteral Nutrition".
6. Adibi (1971), Journal of Clinical Investigation 50, 2266 - 2275. "Intestinal Transport of Dipeptides In Man: Relative Importance of Hydrolysis and Intact Absorption".
7. Adibi & Mercer (1973), Journal of Clinical Investigation 52, 1586 - 1594. "Protein Digestion In Human Intestine As Reflected In Human Mucosal and Plasma Amino Acid Concentrations After Meals".
8. Rooyackers et al. (1994), Thesis University of Limburg, The Netherlands. "Muscle Wasting and the Role of Glutamine: Metabolic Studies In a Catabolic Rat Model".
9. Kee et al. (1994) Metabolism 43, 1373 - 1378. "The Effect of Dipeptide Structure On Dipeptide and Amino Acid Clearance In Rats".
10-07-2005, 11:00 PM #22
wow. the gay dude just got like 4 times
10-07-2005, 11:05 PM #23Originally Posted by Pinnacle
Originally Posted by Pinnacle
Right! Furthermore in studies on more than 1 substance at a time it's hard to contribute any value to any of the variables don't you think?
Originally Posted by Pinnacle
I don't think i have to get into this one....
Originally Posted by Pinnacle
Originally Posted by Pinnacle
Originally Posted by Pinnacle
I know it may help hospitalized individuals. This is a bodybuilding forum!!!!!
10-07-2005, 11:08 PM #24
still waiting for your studies hot shot
10-07-2005, 11:11 PM #25Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
Hold your horses for just 1 second. You guys can post studies with 20 references each time. But it would be only honest if you directly refer me to the study showing the supposed benefit. Fair enough??
So you pick the reference which is supposed to support any of your theories.
I have seen numerous posts from experts claiming shitloads of things while their claims can not be found in their references!!!!
EDIT: FOR EXAMPLE The first reference is a book. Great info. Are you going to order it for me? We are talking pubmed links right?
Last edited by big'r; 10-07-2005 at 11:14 PM.
10-07-2005, 11:18 PM #26
By: Mark Tallon
Every month we look at a new supplement, and up until now it's always been on a topic that I have researched in the past and had a real personal interest in. Although I have used glutamine in the past, like many of you I just accepted that there was a host of literature that proved its credentials for use in sports nutrition.
For me its use has been in the area of immune system functioning and optimising my post exercise recovery. The conclusions based on the current peer reviewed data may surprise you, as the window for the potential application of this amino acid to significantly aid muscle growth and recuperation are shorter than you may have realized!
Here is a supplement that's been hitting the headlines for at least a decade, offering a host of physiological advantages including increased cell volume, improved protein balance, immune function, pH regulation, and acting as an excitatory neurotransmitter that can aid mental function. Well let's take a look at the evidence guys and see what's the TRUTH.
There is no doubt that the physiological importance of the amino acid L-glutamine for promoting and maintaining cell function is accepted across the scientific community. It is now well known that a large number of tissues and cells in the body utilize glutamine at high rates, and that glutamine utilization is essential for their function.
Because of the vast quantity of literature on glutamine in this article the focus of the review must be selective, with the most influential topics reflecting you guys the readers of bodybuilding.com. I believe these areas to be protein synthesis, cell swelling, and immune function (can't train if your ill right!).
Glutamine Origin & Function
The immediate product of glutamine metabolism in most cells is glutamate, (see fig.1 below) which is produced by the action of glutaminase. Glutamine is the most abundant extra-cellular amino acid and its breakdown product glutamate is the most abundant in the intra-cellular environment . Glutamine is utilized by many tissues including, kidneys, gut, and some cells of the immune system.
Figure 1.An overview of the biosynthetic pathways of glutamine and glutamate metabolism. (Adapted from Newsholme et al 2003)
10-07-2005, 11:18 PM #27Originally Posted by Pinnacle
10-07-2005, 11:18 PM #28
To maintain these extreme demands glutamine must be synthesised by several organs, including skeletal muscle, kidneys, liver, lungs, and heart. The most important site of glutamine metabolism is skeletal muscle. In skeletal muscle glutamine can be synthesised by a variety of biochemical reactions including protein degradation or from the combination of 2-oxoglutarate and branched chain amino acids (leucine, isolucine, valine); it can just as well be taken from the plasma in its whole form or from ammonia via the deamination of proteins .
Don't Stress It: Immune Function
It is now widely accepted that glutamine is utilized at high rates by isolated cells of the immune system such as lymphocytes, macrophages and neutraphils [3,4]. These cells can be placed under considerable pressure during situations resulting in elevated stress with the consequence being immune-suppression. Exercise is one form of physiological stress that could lead to immune system suppression, but is there a link between glutamine stores and its optimum functioning?
The effect of acute exercise on plasma glutamine concentration appears to be dependent to a large extent to both the intensity and duration of the exercise bout. After prolonged (2>hrs duration) exhaustitive exercise there is generally a small but significant decrease in circulating plasma glutamine concentrations [5,6,7].
Evidence suggests that the suppression of glutamine may remain for up to 4 hours upon the cessation of exercise . Although in some situations this has been shown to be the case in many others it has not. Following ultra-triathlon, plasma glutamine was shown not to change , single bouts of high intensity exercise have been shown to both increase and shown no change [10,11].
So why all the confusion between studies? In essence this reflects the fact that measurements are mainly based on plasma analysis rather than assessment of changes within the intracellular environment i.e. "muscle glutamine stores". In situations where muscle glutamine has been measured, a decrease is seen in many of the above exercise situations. What is still not well understood is why plasma glutamine levels can decrease while muscle glutamine is being released into the plasma (this maybe due to uptake of glutamine by the kidneys to maintain renal concentrations).
The latest data suggests that in people with a long history of exercising and atypical over-trainers there is a change in the transport system leading to a decrease in the rate of glutamine release from skeletal muscle.
The chronicity of the physiological stress seems to be directly related to the severity of the immune suppression we can experience. This has been shown to be never truer than in clinical environment, and the severe trauma of sepsis and burns . The largest decline reported in plasma glutamine is in severe burns victims where plasma concentration can fall massively from 490 - 200mM .
We know of many studies that have shown a direct relationship between glutamine loss and this form of excessive trauma and the need for supplemental glutamine. However to place this in context acute exercise only leads an average decline of only 100mM; much less of a fall and a decline that can be quickly replenished in a health subject. As we already know glutamine feeds a variety immune functioning cells, its is therefore important to understand if the exercise related decrease in plasma glutamine can have an immuno- suppressive effect, and if supplementation could ameliorate these negative consequences.
Lymphocyte Activated Killer cell activity (LAK) an immune cell type that destroy invading organisms, have been shown to be directly linked to glutamine concentrations. Juretic et al  discovered that depression of glutamine concentrations negatively affected the LAK activity. In an applied situation measurements of declining serum glutamine taken following a triathlon resulted in a parallel decline in LAK .
Many other immune responses have been proposed to be effected including cytokines and macrophages, however although there is a selection of literature linking glutamine with the immune system it is still unknown weather there is a causal relationship between decreased glutamine stores and immuno-suppression or vice versa. One possible way to elucidate this is through monitoring the effects of L-glutamine supplementation of which we will examine later (If you cannot wait skip forward a few paragraphs).
Cell Swelling: Turning Up The Anabolic Signal
Cellular swelling is often a symptom of a change in the osmotic gradient within the cell. What this means is that if you increase the concentration of a compound outside of the cell membrane above that found inside of the cell, there will be a movement of this compound until extracellular and intracellular contents are equal . The movement of these compounds / solutes result in the uptake of water as they are transported inside the cell and hence a transient expansion of cellular volume (See figure.2 below).
Figure 2.Effects of glutamine on cellular solutes including K+, Cl-, and NA+ and the associated influence on cell volumization (Adapted from Haussinger et al 1990).
10-07-2005, 11:19 PM #29
Recent evidence suggests that the state of cellular hydration (cell volume) is an import factor in the control of many important cellular functions. These include modulation of hormones, oxidative stress, and gene expression to name but a few. Several compounds have been shown to have a significant effect on cellular volume. The effect these amino acids have on glycogen synthesis and inhibition of proteolysis can be mimicked by bringing about similar changes in cell volume [16,17,18]. This indicates that many of the effects these amino acids exert can be accounted primarily due to their cell volumizing properties.
Cell swelling also inhibits protein breakdown but conversely cell shrinkage stimulates breakdown . Glutamine has been shown to be a potent player for enhancing cellular swelling  (see figure.3). The mechanisms proposed for improved protein turnover as mediated via glutamine induced cell swelling are two-fold.
Figure 3.The associated modulators of cell volumisation and their influence on cellular hydration and metabolism.
Firstly it may influence the function of cyclic AMP, a chemical messenger associated with many cellular functions including the inhibition of protein synthesis as such, cell swelling may prevent or enhance protein synthesis.
Secondly it may have a direct effect on cellular stability  however I doubt this hypothesis as recent studies have shown glutamine to have little effect on myofibrillar damage over the short term , longer term studies are still needed. Other factors such as nitrogen balance will be affected through glutamine supplementation and this in its own right will have a significant impact on protein synthetic rates.
The Influence Of L-Glutamine Supplementation
Several research studies have investigated the suggestion that exogenous provision of glutamine supplementation may be beneficial by preventing the impairment of immune function following endurance exercise. Castell  was one of if not the primary study demonstrating the influence of glutamine supplementation following exercise. A 5g dose was given immediately post race and 2hrs proceeding the event.
Plasma glutamine was still depressed by 20% in both groups although based on questionnaires 80% of athletes reported no incidence of infection up to 7 days post event, were only 48% of the placebo group remained free of infection. However in a follow up study no significant difference in plasma glutamine was demonstrated between swimmers who did or did not develop upper respiratory tract infection (URTI) following and increase in the intensity of their training schedule .
It has been hypothesised that the dose of glutamine was not enough to ameliorate the decline in plasma glutamine concentrations, so a new dose protocol was needed. A dose routine using 100mg/kg BW was used 30min pre, immediately post, and 30mins post exercise . The exercise consisted cycling for 60,45, and 30 mins with 2 hr recovery periods. The glutamine supplemented group maintained plasma concentrations above pre supplement levels, whilst the placebo group decrease by about 20% (as in the previous study above).
Although the supplemented group maintained plasma glutamine concentration no differences were shown between the groups lymphocytes, leucocytes, or LAK activities, which are all known indicators of immune system function. This data demonstrates that although plasma glutamine concentrations were attenuated the influence of supplementation did not diminish post exercise immuno-suppresion characterised by decreased lymphocyte concentration and LAK activity.
There are two other major factors I would like to draw you attention two as regards the hypothesis of L-glutamine supplementation and immuno-suppression.
Firstly it has been shown that in-vitro when we decrease the glutamine availability to lymphocytes to the lowest possible levels measured post exercise (300mM) their function was just as efficient as at concentrations similar to that demonstrated at rest (600mM).
Secondly data from researchers at the Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre (CMRC) have shown that following an acute bout of cycling plasma glutamine levels decrease as expected, however the concentration in many of the immune cells was maintained and possibly increased. Therefore using the current dosing regimes, oral glutamine ingestion does not positively influence immune functioning in exercising populations.
Cell Swelling & protein sparing
To date there is very little direct data on L-glutamine feeding and protein rates in humans, what you will see quoted is a myriad of papers on malnutrition, AIDS, and people with gastrointestinal disorders. These hardly represent the exercising population and I won't insult your intelligence by quoting what they have found.
I could only really find one real study that has looked at the implication of glutamine supplementation and exercise performance for the resistance trained athlete. Antonio et al  investigated the possibility of high dose glutamine supplementation on weightlifting performance (one hour after ingestion) as defined by 2 sets of leg press (200% Bwt) and 2 sets of bench press (100% Bwt).
No significant differences were found in the average number of reps performed between all groups. There is no reason why glutamine use would affect this form of performance, other than the far-reaching possibility of controlling/enhancing intracellular pH (ye glutamine may do this also). In this regard there are much more efficient extracellular and intracellular buffers. L-glutamine may also affect proteolysis by inhibiting the catabolic effects of cortisol. Whilst in clinical situations this may have a significant place in the total impact of a sound nutritional program in the experienced athlete I am not as convinced. Many studies have shown cortisol control has no direct impact on exercise performance  and possibly zero impact even if we could depress our cortisol levels, as experienced lifters produce less cortisol then their associated sedentary counterparts  buts that's another story.
10-07-2005, 11:21 PM #30
AND FINALLY>>THE END WITH REFERENCES OUT THE ASS>>>ALL ABOUT BODYBUILDING>>>>>>
Glutamine A Household Name... But Where Do We Go From Here?
So what can we take away form the current research on glutamine that may help us improve performance, recovery, and the associated benefits of muscle growth and fat loss? Well there is no doubt that under very stressful conditions the bodies needs for glutamine can outstrip the capacity for production, leading to decreased intramuscular glutamine contents. In disease states associated with excessive muscle catabolism (AIDS for example); glutamine supplementation may maintain a positive nitrogen balance and sustain bodyweight.
However the oral infusion of glutamine in healthy subjects has been shown to have no effect on retaining nitrogen balance . Although this data seems to paint to a pretty bleak picture of glutamine, the truth is that much of the research has shown poor physiological benefits for generally athletic population because of a series of factors:
- No methodical approach to dosing to find an optimal level to bring about favourable effects.
- Many of the studies are short duration and a possible accumulative benefit of glutamine over time is unknown.
- The influence of high-dose glutamine ingestion on trained subjects and cellular swelling are still awaiting investigation.
- Studies still need to be performed on those athletes that are overtrained and are consistently effected by repeat viral infection. Can glutamine aid in the recovery of repeat infection and cumulative immuno-suppression?
- Finally the most important factor is that many of the studies on glutamine are significantly influenced by the nutritional state of the study participants. An example of this is the anti-proteolytic effects exerted through the supplementation of glycine. In the fed state its anti-proteolytic effects is only about one third of that found after 24hrs of starvation.
My recommendations would be to make sure you take in at least 5g of glutamine each day as an assurance policy in conjunction with you usual nutritional regime. To try to have a real impact on recovery and maintaining intracellular glutamine stores the relatively high dose of 100mg/kg (equivalent to 7-10g a day) taken pre, post and 30mins will guarantee this result, although at a financial cost.
So in essence science has a ways to go to prove the efficacy of glutamine as a vital sports supplement, but evidence is on the way especially in the field of antioxidant capacities and free radical mediated muscle damage prevention . Until the next series of well-designed studies are released I am sure many companies will still promote this important amino acid as one of the best ergogenics out there, but now you know the facts how you use them regarding your core supplement choice is up to you!
P.Newsholme et al, "Glutamine and glutamate as vital metabolites," Braz J Med Biol Res, 36 (2003): 153 -163
M.Stumvoll et al, "Role of glutamine in human carbohydrate metabolism in kidney and other tissues," Kid Int. 5 (1999): 778 - 779
M.Elia et al, " Amino acid metabolism in muscle and in the whole body of man before and after ingestion of a single mixed meal," Am J Clin Nutr. 49 (1989): 1203 - 1210
S.Yoshida et al, "Effects of total parental nutrition, systemic sepsis, and glutamine on gut mucosa in rats," Am J Physiol. 163 (1992): E368 - E373
L.M.Castell et al, "Some aspects of the acute phase response after a marathon race, and the effects of glutamine supplementation," Eur J Appl Physiol. 73 (1997): 47 - 53
J.Decombaz et al, "Biomechanical changes in a 100km run: free amino acids, urea and creatinine," Eur J Appl Physiol. 73 (1979): 61 - 72
M.Parry-Billings et al, "Plasma amino acid concentration in the over-training syndrome: Possible effects on the immune system," Med Sci Sports Ex. 24 (1992): 1353 - 1358
N.Hiscock et al, "Exercise-induced immuno-depression - plasma glutamine not the link," J Appl Physiol. 93 (2002): 813 - 822
M.Lehman et al, "Serum amino acid concentration in nine athletes before and after the 1993 Colmar ultra-triathlon," Int J Sports Med. 16 (1995): 155 - 159
D.Keast et al, "Depression of plasma glutamine concentration after exercise stress and its possible influence on the immune system. Med J Aust. 162 (1995): 15 - 18
M.Parry-Billings et al, "Does glutamine contribute to majour burns?," Lancet. 336 (1990): 523 -525
R.J.Smith, "Glutamine metabolism and its physiological importance," JPEN.(1990):14
A.Juretic et al, "Glutamine requirements in the generation of the lymphokine - activated killer cells," Clin Nutr. 13 (1994): 42 - 49
T.Rohde et al, "The immune system and serum glutamine during triathlon," Eur J Appl Physiol. 74 (1996): 428 - 434
D.Haussinger, "The role of cellular hydration in the regulation of cell function," J Biochem. 313 (1996): 697 - 710
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A.Baquet, "Swelling of rat hepatocytes stimulates glycogen synthesis," J Biol Chem. 15, 265 (1990): 955-959
D.Haussinger et al, "Involvement of microtubles in the swelling-induced stimulation of transcellular taurocholate transport in perfused rat liver," J Biochem. 15,291 (1993): 355 - 360
A.J. Meijer, "Cell swelling and the sensitivity of autophagic proteolysis to inhibition by amino acids in isolated rat hepatocytes," Eur J Biochem. 215,2 (1993): 449 - 454
J.Kruppa, "Differential kinetics of changes in the state of phosphorylation of ribosomal protein S6 and in the rate of protein synthesis in MPC 11 cells during tonicity shifts,"EMBO. 3,1 (1984): 95 - 100
D.Haussinger et al, "Effect of hepatocyte swelling on microtubule stability and tubulin mRNA levels," Biochem Cell Biol. 72, 1-2 (1994): 12 -19
L.M.Castell et al, "Does glutamine have a role in reducing infections in athletes?," Eur J Appl Physiol. 73 (1996): 488 - 490
T.Rhode et al, "Effect of glutamine supplementation on changes in the immune system induced by repeated exercise. Med Sci Sports Ex. 30 (1997): 856 - 862
J.Antonio et al, " The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance," J Strength Cond Res. 16,1 (2002): 157 -160
P.Del Corral et al, "Metabolic effects of low cortisol during exercise in humans," J Appl Physiol. 84,3 (1998): 939 - 947
J.L.McMillan et al, "20-hour physiological responses to a single weight-training session," J Strength Con Res. 7,1 (1993): 9-21
T.R.Zeigler et al, "Safety and metabolic effects of L-Glutamine administration in humans. JPEN. 14,4 (1990): 137S -146S
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10-07-2005, 11:23 PM #31
CAN WE SAY>>>>>>>>>>>>>OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!
10-07-2005, 11:24 PM #32Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl
Enlighten me. Any study in healthy subject (or even healthy rats) showing it will help under one of the conditions you posted. (Help means an increase in protein synthesis/muscle mass):
-during times of fasting
-before cardio/before bed (and an increase in GH does not automatically mean increased protein synthesis)
-Or you may prove more than 10% of oral glutamine makes it to the muscle
10-07-2005, 11:27 PM #33
Effects of glutamine-supplemented total parenteral nutrition on cytokine production and T cell population in septic rats
JPEN: Journal of Parenteral and Enteral Nutrition, Sep/Oct 2001 by Yeh, Sung Ling, Yeh, Chiu Li, Lin, Ming Tsan, Lo, Ping Nan, Chen, Wei Jao
Save a personal copy of this article and quickly find it again with Furl.net. It's free! Save it.
ABSTRACT. Background: This study was designed to investigate the effects of total parenteral nutrition (TPN) enriched with glutamine (GLN) on in vivo cytokine production and cellular immune response in early and late septic stages of rats. Methods: Male Wistar rats were divided into 2 experimental groups and received TPN solution at an energy level of 270 kcal/kg body weight. The TPN solutions were isonitrogenous and identical in nutrients composition except for differences in amino acid content. One group received 2% GLN, whereas the other group received glycine (Gly) instead. TPN was maintained for 5 or 6 days according to the sacrifice schedule of the rats. On day 5, sepsis was induced by cecal ligation and puncture (CLP). Respective groups of rats were sacrificed 2, 4, 6, and 24 hours after CLP. Results: Sepsis resulted in a negative nitrogen balance in both groups, and nitrogen loss was significantly lower in the GLN than the Gly group. Interleukin (IL)-2 and interferon (IFN)-gamma in most of
the samples collected at various time points were not detectable in plasma or peritoneal lavage fluid. No differences in plasma IL-6 and TNF-alpha concentrations were observed between the GLN and Gly groups. Also, there were no significant differences in IL-1(beta), IL-6, and TNF-alpha concentrations in peritoneal lavage fluid between the 2 groups at various time points. The CD4+/CD8+ ratio was significantly higher in the GLN group than in the Gly group only at 4 hours after CLP, and no difference was observed at 24 hours after CLP. Conclusions: TPN preinfused with a GLN-supplemented solution had a beneficial effect in ameliorating the extent of negative nitrogen balance in septic rats. However, parenterally administered GLN did not reduce the production of inflammatory mediators systemically or at the site of injury, and the influence on enhancing cellular immunity was not obvious. (Journal of Parenteral and Enteral Nutrition 25:269274, 2001)
10-07-2005, 11:27 PM #34Originally Posted by Pinnacle
DAMMNED, do you think i'm gonna go through all references. You point out the 1 reference with the supposed value.
You have got all the time in the world, i have to get to my work now!!!
10-07-2005, 11:28 PM #35
Total parenteral nutrition (TPN) is commonly used in the treatment of critically ill patients. Despite improvements in diagnostic and therapeutic strategies, infection remains a serious problem in TPN patients. Sepsis is a common clinical problem with extremely high mortality rates. Patients receiving TPN frequently experience complication from sepsis, because the immune function is suppressed and translocation of bacteria from the gut is often observed in these patients.1,2
Glutamine (GLN) is the most abundant free amino acid in plasma and the tissue pool.3 It is a critical substrate for enterocytes and other rapidly proliferating cells during serious illness and infection.4 GLN depletion occurs in critically injured patients, and may contribute to the high rate of infection.5 A study by Inoue et al6 demonstrated that the bowel weight was greater and disaccharidase activity of the intestinal mucosa was higher in an intravenous (IV) GLN-treated group than the control group in a peritonitis model using Escherichia coli injection. Naka et al7 examined the effect of an IV GLN dipeptide on septic mortality. They found that mortality was significantly lower in the GLN-TPN group than in animals receiving conventional TPN. The beneficial effects of GLN were thought to result from its protective effect on increasing intestinal blood flow and in maintaining a functioning bowel barrier.8,9 Human studies also reported that the GLNtreated group experienced fewer clinical infections and shorter hospital stays. Also, greater blood concentrations of total lymphocyte and CD4 and CD8 cells were noted in bone marrow transplant patients compared with the controls.10,11 An in vitro study demonstrated that GLN influences the production of T cell-derived cytokines and is important for optimal lymphocyte proliferation.12 Some investigators suggest that GLN may be useful in the treatment of established infections or inflammation. 13 To our knowledge, there is no study, so far, investigating the effects of GLN supplementation on inflammatory-related mediator production and T lymphocyte populations in TPN rats complicated with sepsis. Therefore, the aim of this research was to study the effect of preinfusion of TPN with a GLN-enriched solution on in vivo cytokine production and on the cellular immune response in early and late septic stages of rats.
CLINICAL RELEVANCY STATEMENT
The study was supported by the research grant NSC 89-2314-B002-526 from the National Science Council, ROC. The authors thank Ms. Yu-Ni Lai and Ms. Lihjiuan Yu for their technical assistance.
1. O'Mahony JB, Palder SB, Wood JJ, et al: Depression of cellular immunity after multiple trauma in the absence of sepsis. J Trauma 24:869-875, 1984
2. Border JR, Hassett J, LaDuca J, et al: The gut origin septic states in blunt multiple trauma in the ICU. Ann Surg 206:427428, 1987
3. Bergstrom J, Furst P, Noree Lo, et al: Intracellular free amino acid concentration in human muscle tissue. J Appl Physiol 36:693-697, 1974
4. Smith RJ, Willmore DW: Glutamine nutrition and requirements. MEN 14:945-995, 1990
5. Long CL, Borghesi L, Stahl R, et al: Impact of enteral feeding of a
10-07-2005, 11:28 PM #36Originally Posted by big'r
If i don't react by posting all studies (within 48 hours of your post) following 1 study proving any of your points, the mods can BAN me....... Agreed?"
I agreed, so your studies are waiting... so are we.
Less than 48 hours bitch. I cant wait for you to get banned.
Last edited by Mesomorphyl; 10-07-2005 at 11:32 PM.
10-07-2005, 11:30 PM #37Originally Posted by big'r
10-07-2005, 11:30 PM #38Originally Posted by Pinnacle
That's the way i like it. Individual studies. Much better!!!
Now in healthy rats please.
10-07-2005, 11:33 PM #39Originally Posted by Pinnacle
Which of these studies is relevant regarding my challenge? You pick one.
This is my last post for x hours. So you have got all the time to pick any 1 study.
10-07-2005, 11:35 PM #40Originally Posted by big'r
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