Prop vs. Other Esters

[EdMan2]

I read a lot about prop being used in cutting cycles, or cycles where really clean gains are desired due to the water retention from longer esters like enan or cyp. and I have a couple of questions. Why is it that prop doesn't give as much water retention? If used in the same doses, since they are all testosterone , will prop and lets say test-e give the same gains in lbm?

[james21]

The water retention actually makes you stronger, so it would build a little more mass after the cycle is over. But it wouldn't be a whole lot.

[RON]

The water retention actually makes you stronger, so it would build a little more mass after the cycle is over. But it wouldn't be a whole lot.

I have not found that to be true...Actually from personal experiance I would say my gains were better on prop due to the more constant levels of test. Test_E in my opinion is just easier.

[EdMan2]

I have not found that to be true...Actually from personal experiance I would say my gains were better on prop due to the more constant levels of test. Test_E in my opinion is just easier.

By better gains, do you mean just more gains, or the quality of gains (ie leaner with less fat)?

Another question, would running test-e, but with arimidex to stop water retention provide the same type of results as prop?

[RON]

Well Prop gave me more gains than I dreamed in all my lifts. Plus my pumps were unbelievable. Usually my pumps leave when I stop dbol but the pumps from prop were amazing.

Plus with a shorter ester you control the dose in your blood stream more with ed injections. Thus making it a more steady stream...IE less dips.

[RON]

If this is your first few cycles a long ester is best but if you ave a little experiance with long esters try prop I bet you will like it

[EdMan2]

Yea this will be my first cycle, but the idea of injecting doesn't bother me too much so I think I will just go with prop for my first go. Is that such a bad idea?

[wolfyEVH]

test is test. the only thing that is different is the dosage and frequency of doses...THATS IT. 250mg of Test E twice a week has different levels in your body than 75mg of prop 7 times a week. Different amounts of test are circulating in the body on both examples. the ester doesn't change the composition to make one hold more or less water.

[ODC0717]

It's not a bad idea, just make sure you can committ to injecting ed. I'd say at the minimum go for eod. 75mg prop ed is great for gains not covered by water retention, for me. Remember, everyone responds differently to AAS. I hold water like a camel with enth and cyp, but prop I saty relativley dry. Maybe a lb or two, but not more then that.

[stayinstacked]

By better gains, do you mean just more gains, or the quality of gains (ie leaner with less fat)?

Another question, would running test-e, but with arimidex to stop water retention provide the same type of results as prop?

Muscles are composed of mostly water, something like 72% or so, any drug that retains more water would cause a more dramatic strength increase.

[stayinstacked]

nah, even w/ arimidex your still going to get more water retention than just prop by itself. My advice would be to run the test e then switch off to prop for the last 4-6 weeks of the cycle. Or run the test e and the prop at the same time, then when you drop the test e up the prop dosage and stay solely on prop

[wolfyEVH]

let me also point out that diets are traditionally different when using long estered gear vs short estered. USUALLY people run the long estered gear in bulking cycles, where your diet pretty much "eat anything and drink shit loads of water" versus the prop thats usually used in cutting. different diets causes different gains

[RON]

I will tell you if you run prop you will be hurting in a diff location every day. If I were you I'd run the longer ester. As far as test is test well thats what I used to say. Same with prop is for cutting. But now I will run prop a lot more. Bulking or cutting

[PlasticFuture112]

i ran prop for my first cycle and had nothing but amazing results on it. very little pain, only in my quads actually and my gains were quite well when i ran it with var. i gained 18 solid lbs of mass, got vascular as heck and was able to retain all of it. IMO i will never run any other test, for now at least because of the great results i had with it. i ran prop with the intention of making if a lean gainer, not necessary a full on bulk but wanted to get bigger. I personally think you get out of your cycle what you put in it as well. IE diet training cardio sleep etc. with those you can manipulate whatever you want out of the cycle. i chose to eat relatively clean but consumed clean carbs for the mass. the only downside i had to say was the everyday shots did get kinda old and were such a chore. especially being my first cycle. so when it all comes down to it if you want a test where blood levels will be more stable and you will keep water retention low then definatelly go with prop. if you want less of a chore and probabilities of less muscle soreness from shots then go with another ester. Test E ive heard is amazing and the most recommended first cycle test to go with. water retention isnt too bad and will give you outstanding results. good luck to ya bro. if you need any cycle questions feel free to PM me with questions regarding only prop, var, and winny. those are all ive really cared to know about. all others ask the bros around here. more knowledgable....good luck

[EdMan2]

i ran prop for my first cycle and had nothing but amazing results on it. very little pain, only in my quads actually and my gains were quite well when i ran it with var. i gained 18 solid lbs of mass, got vascular as heck and was able to retain all of it. IMO i will never run any other test, for now at least because of the great results i had with it. i ran prop with the intention of making if a lean gainer, not necessary a full on bulk but wanted to get bigger. I personally think you get out of your cycle what you put in it as well. IE diet training cardio sleep etc. with those you can manipulate whatever you want out of the cycle. i chose to eat relatively clean but consumed clean carbs for the mass. the only downside i had to say was the everyday shots did get kinda old and were such a chore. especially being my first cycle. so when it all comes down to it if you want a test where blood levels will be more stable and you will keep water retention low then definatelly go with prop. if you want less of a chore and probabilities of less muscle soreness from shots then go with another ester. Test E ive heard is amazing and the most recommended first cycle test to go with. water retention isnt too bad and will give you outstanding results. good luck to ya bro. if you need any cycle questions feel free to PM me with questions regarding only prop, var, and winny. those are all ive really cared to know about. all others ask the bros around here. more knowledgable....good luck

Thanks for the help man. Oddly enough thats exactly what I'm thinking of doing for my first cycle, a really lean gainer consisting of the following:

Weeks 1-12 Prop 75mg ed
Weeks 1-6 Var 50mg ed
Weeks 8-13 Winny 50mg ed (I'm still debating about this one)

I will be doing this after I have lost quite a bit of bodyfat and will be keeping my diet extremely clean during the length of the cycle. Right now I feel like I am willing to put in the effort to do ed injections since I will be keeping myself strict on all other aspects of my life. Hopefully I'll see similar results to yours. Any other advice you can give regarding the above cycle?

[RON]

Its really a pain to do the everyday thing and you have to be good about your shots. I really would do test-e or cyp your first few times or at least your first. Its not the pain its just the shots ed and the changing injection spots. A little experiance would help IMO

[ODC0717]

Like I said, if he can't commit then use a single ester.